(03-26-2017 05:44 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:42 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:35 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:32 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor. If that happens---all will be forgotten.

As for Trump, it reminds me of the a lot of the first 2 months of Regan. He couldn't get anything done early on. He got shot near the very end of March--just a couple of months into his first year in office. When he returned from his injuries---he suddenly had a ton of good will behind him. That was when he started getting things done. Before that---everything he wanted was dead on arrival.

The Tea Party understands that their strength is based in their ability to accrue more seats. Rest assure, those establishment republicans will face Tea Party challengers in the midterms. And they would be smart to get this passed before those elections come around. The establishment reps will be asked why they didn't back a clean repeal when the had the chance. By then, increasing premiums will doom those reps with the voters. The Freedom Caucus will be able to point to the CBO report and say they wanted a clean repeal, and didn't vote for ryancare, because it wasn't going to deduce health care cost at all. dems will just continue to hemorrhage seats as the weight of this monstrosity crushes the middle class. Obamacare will be repealed after the midterms, if moderates are not smart enough to pass it now.

As to the second paragraph... Trump is no Reagan.

nothing like finger banging ones own bungholio....

I guess that counts as a response.

accomplishing zero when looking for change and in command always results in zero (false)

was that better???

No. Ryancare was not substantially different from Obamacare. In fact, the CBO said it would not have done anything to reduce health care costs. By not voting on it, the dems still own this train wreak of a health care system.

(03-26-2017 05:45 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:41 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:32 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor. If that happens---all will be forgotten.

As for Trump, it reminds me of the a lot of the first 2 months of Regan. He couldn't get anything done early on. He got shot near the very end of March--just a couple of months into his first year in office. When he returned from his injuries---he suddenly had a ton of good will behind him. That was when he started getting things done. Before that---everything he wanted was dead on arrival.

The Tea Party understands that their strength is based in their ability to accrue more seats. Rest assure, those establishment republicans will face Tea Party challengers in the midterms. And they would be smart to get this passed before those elections come around. The establishment reps will be asked why they didn't back a clean repeal when the had the chance. By then, increasing premiums will doom those reps with the voters. The Freedom Caucus will be able to point to the CBO report and say they wanted a clean repeal, and didn't vote for ryancare, because it wasn't going to deduce health care cost at all. dems will just continue to hemorrhage seats as the weight of this monstrosity crushes the middle class. Obamacare will be repealed after the midterms, if moderates are not smart enough to pass it now.

As to the second paragraph... Trump is no Reagan.

You are making a foolish mistake if you believe the dems are dead.

If Republicans continue to play internal factional games and getting nothing accomplished instead of governing party then they are gone in two years.

I agree to an extent... If establishment republicans don't do a better job of listening to the majority of their middle class voters, they will certainly be losing their seats, but not to democrats.

(03-26-2017 07:56 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Eh, I'm in no hurry to see Republicans take the credit/blame for a lousy healthcare system. I'll patently wait for a real change.

Exactly. The FC should be seen as heroes. We have plenty of time to get this right. WTF is the rush?

Tell me about it.

It's like Let's Make a Deal and behind one of three doors is a brand new Cadillac. The woman picks door number one and it's a case of toilet paper. Monty shows what's behind door number two and it's a portrait of Trump embracing Obama. Monty asks if the woman wants to stay with door one or go with what's behind door number three and the husbands yelling "take the toilet paper".

I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians and then unite with them to clean house on government size, government scope, taxation, welfare, and the debt. As DeMint rightly observed ... we have plenty of time to deal with these social issues, and even simply punting them to the states is an area of broad agreement. But the hour is getting late on issues of fiscal sanity. And on that front we don't just have to contend with Marxism on the left ... but watered down Marxism among the rank and file of the GOP itself. Not of the grassroots ... but of the elected class. The New York Republican delegation is no more friendly to a balanced budget than the California Democrat delegation.

I'll probably still be waiting on that when I die of crappy government run healthcare in a few decades.

(03-26-2017 06:02 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:46 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:41 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:32 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor. If that happens---all will be forgotten.

As for Trump, it reminds me of the a lot of the first 2 months of Regan. He couldn't get anything done early on. He got shot near the very end of March--just a couple of months into his first year in office. When he returned from his injuries---he suddenly had a ton of good will behind him. That was when he started getting things done. Before that---everything he wanted was dead on arrival.

The Tea Party understands that their strength is based in their ability to accrue more seats. Rest assure, those establishment republicans will face Tea Party challengers in the midterms. And they would be smart to get this passed before those elections come around. The establishment reps will be asked why they didn't back a clean repeal when the had the chance. By then, increasing premiums will doom those reps with the voters. The Freedom Caucus will be able to point to the CBO report and say they wanted a clean repeal, and didn't vote for ryancare, because it wasn't going to deduce health care cost at all. dems will just continue to hemorrhage seats as the weight of this monstrosity crushes the middle class. Obamacare will be repealed after the midterms, if moderates are not smart enough to pass it now.

As to the second paragraph... Trump is no Reagan.

You are making a foolish mistake if you believe the dems are dead.

No the dems have a strong chance of winning the presidency in 2020. I am quite concerned about the possibilities of a candidate like Cory Booker. If he stays away from scandal, he could surely win. I sure hope Hillary runs again.

In the house and senate races, I don't feel the dems have any real advantages in the midterms. They have a larger portion of seats up for re-election.

They aren't going to win the Senate most likely because they have to defend more seats. But in the House, it is all up for grabs.

The incumbent party usually loses in the mid-terms....and that's when they aren't particularly incompetent.

I'm not too concerned about house races. In many states, Dems will win in districts they have been confined to. Redistricting has reduced them to winning some districts by very large margins, but not enough districts to gain seats. Remember, the GOP has a larger percentage of governorships.

(03-26-2017 07:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:13 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Agree. This sits solely on the GOP obstructionists in 2018. If they can't repeal it before then they are going to answer for it at the polls.

No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

We shall see. People are angry and the freedom caucus rep in my state will likely be replaced.

Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The Freedom Caucus is not the "Tea Party." The Tea Party were the deficit hawks and were not ideological. The Freedom Caucus is just general hard core conservatives and very ideological.

Conservatives are deficit hawks too. It is part of their ideology. The Freedom Caucus and the Tea Party are very connected in this way. They many not be lock step on most issues, but they are very closely aligned on healthcare. Ryancare, like Obamacare, would have done nothing to reduce costs. Just go look at the CBO report.

(03-26-2017 08:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians

After Obergfell and Casey (the affirmation and parsing of Roe), what social issues are really left?

Social conservatives keep bashing their head on backdoor restrictions to abortion (like Texas tries time after time after time), but at a national level there truly are no 'social issues' left.

(03-26-2017 08:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:56 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Eh, I'm in no hurry to see Republicans take the credit/blame for a lousy healthcare system. I'll patently wait for a real change.

Exactly. The FC should be seen as heroes. We have plenty of time to get this right. WTF is the rush?

Tell me about it.

It's like Let's Make a Deal and behind one of three doors is a brand new Cadillac. The woman picks door number one and it's a case of toilet paper. Monty shows what's behind door number two and it's a portrait of Trump embracing Obama. Monty asks if the woman wants to stay with door one or go with what's behind door number three and the husbands yelling "take the toilet paper".

I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians and then unite with them to clean house on government size, government scope, taxation, welfare, and the debt. As DeMint rightly observed ... we have plenty of time to deal with these social issues, and even simply punting them to the states is an area of broad agreement. But the hour is getting late on issues of fiscal sanity. And on that front we don't just have to contend with Marxism on the left ... but watered down Marxism among the rank and file of the GOP itself. Not of the grassroots ... but of the elected class. The New York Republican delegation is no friendly to a balanced budget than the California Democrat delegation.

I'll probably still be waiting on that when I die of crappy government run healthcare in a few decades.

Totally agree. Down here in Texas we have some democrats that are more conservative then republicans in some of the other states.

(03-26-2017 08:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians

After Obergfell and Casey (the affirmation and parsing of Roe), what social issues are really left?

Social conservatives keep bashing their head on backdoor restrictions to abortion (like Texas tries time after time after time), but at a national level there truly are no 'social issues' left.

You aren't woke if you think that.

(03-26-2017 08:31 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians

After Obergfell and Casey (the affirmation and parsing of Roe), what social issues are really left?

Social conservatives keep bashing their head on backdoor restrictions to abortion (like Texas tries time after time after time), but at a national level there truly are no 'social issues' left.

You aren't woke if you think that.

I really dont think that deciding who gets to pee in which bathroom is anywhere near the stature of gay marriage and abortion. If it is of that import to the Republicans, then their goals are really low.....

(03-26-2017 08:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:56 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 07:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Eh, I'm in no hurry to see Republicans take the credit/blame for a lousy healthcare system. I'll patently wait for a real change.

Exactly. The FC should be seen as heroes. We have plenty of time to get this right. WTF is the rush?

Tell me about it.

It's like Let's Make a Deal and behind one of three doors is a brand new Cadillac. The woman picks door number one and it's a case of toilet paper. Monty shows what's behind door number two and it's a portrait of Trump embracing Obama. Monty asks if the woman wants to stay with door one or go with what's behind door number three and the husbands yelling "take the toilet paper".

I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians and then unite with them to clean house on government size, government scope, taxation, welfare, and the debt. As DeMint rightly observed ... we have plenty of time to deal with these social issues, and even simply punting them to the states is an area of broad agreement. But the hour is getting late on issues of fiscal sanity. And on that front we don't just have to contend with Marxism on the left ... but watered down Marxism among the rank and file of the GOP itself. Not of the grassroots ... but of the elected class. The New York Republican delegation is no friendly to a balanced budget than the California Democrat delegation.

I'll probably still be waiting on that when I die of crappy government run healthcare in a few decades.

There aren't enough Libertarians for that to matter. You know how I know this? In an election with the 2 worst candidates ever nominated by the 2 major parties Johnson got 3% (and I'm a part of that 3% BTW). I would like for Libertarian's to be more viable, I don't agree with them on everything but on a lot of key issues I do. The problem is parts of their ideology appeals to the base of both sides, but none of it is particularly appealing to anyone in the middle.

(03-26-2017 09:37 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  There aren't enough Libertarians for that to matter. You know how I know this? In an election with the 2 worst candidates ever nominated by the 2 major parties Johnson got 3% (and I'm a part of that 3% BTW). I would like for Libertarian's to be more viable, I don't agree with them on everything but on a lot of key issues I do. The problem is parts of their ideology appeals to the base of both sides, but none of it is particularly appealing to anyone in the middle.

You judge the whole of libertarians based upon a system so transparently rigged against third parties and the second most disappointing LP candidate in my lifetime? Okay. I prefer better metrics though.

(03-26-2017 09:49 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 09:37 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  There aren't enough Libertarians for that to matter. You know how I know this? In an election with the 2 worst candidates ever nominated by the 2 major parties Johnson got 3% (and I'm a part of that 3% BTW). I would like for Libertarian's to be more viable, I don't agree with them on everything but on a lot of key issues I do. The problem is parts of their ideology appeals to the base of both sides, but none of it is particularly appealing to anyone in the middle.

You judge the whole of libertarians based upon a system so transparently rigged against third parties and the second most disappointing LP candidate in my lifetime? Okay. I prefer better metrics though.

I'd prefer a few of them to actually get elected to something instead of arguing on the internet about how little government we could get by with on a theoretical level. They are far too concerned about who is the most pure ideologically and who can quote the most from Murray Rothbard than actually winning anything, which is why as much as I'd like them to matter they don't.

(03-26-2017 09:49 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  a system so transparently rigged against third parties

And here comes the crying.

No ... it simply comes down to very few people believe what you believe. Sorry, there is no hand-waiving.


And yes the LP has no talent to run (same with Green party) ... because, duh, anyone with any talent to run as a politician is steered far clear from a losing cause like the LP or the GP.

So inexorably they run weirdo policy nerds with odd personalities that appeal to no one.

(03-26-2017 09:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:31 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians

After Obergfell and Casey (the affirmation and parsing of Roe), what social issues are really left?

Social conservatives keep bashing their head on backdoor restrictions to abortion (like Texas tries time after time after time), but at a national level there truly are no 'social issues' left.

You aren't woke if you think that.

I really dont think that deciding who gets to pee in which bathroom is anywhere near the stature of gay marriage and abortion. If it is of that import to the Republicans, then their goals are really low.....

Not the right that brings this stuff up. Don't know why people keep blaming the right for what the left does.

(03-26-2017 07:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:44 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:42 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:35 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 05:32 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  The Tea Party understands that their strength is based in their ability to accrue more seats. Rest assure, those establishment republicans will face Tea Party challengers in the midterms. And they would be smart to get this passed before those elections come around. The establishment reps will be asked why they didn't back a clean repeal when the had the chance. By then, increasing premiums will doom those reps with the voters. The Freedom Caucus will be able to point to the CBO report and say they wanted a clean repeal, and didn't vote for ryancare, because it wasn't going to deduce health care cost at all. dems will just continue to hemorrhage seats as the weight of this monstrosity crushes the middle class. Obamacare will be repealed after the midterms, if moderates are not smart enough to pass it now.

As to the second paragraph... Trump is no Reagan.

nothing like finger banging ones own bungholio....

I guess that counts as a response.

accomplishing zero when looking for change and in command always results in zero (false)

was that better???

No. Ryancare was not substantially different from Obamacare. In fact, the CBO said it would not have done anything to reduce health care costs. By not voting on it, the dems still own this train wreak of a health care system.

you're missing the overall point....the point being when you have control, you push the agenda through to later achieve the overall goal of getting it right....once you own it early, it then becomes establishing a coalescing to accomplish what is 'best method'....it also then becomes being in a position of strength

the FC is whiffing the overall goal when their goal is to create change for what is right....they just lost Poe b/c of this

if one doesn't see it that way, then we'll have to agree to disagree in scope...

I'll use my chess metaphor again....sometimes you need to trade-off to gain the crown...

(03-26-2017 10:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 09:49 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  a system so transparently rigged against third parties

And here comes the crying.

No ... it simply comes down to very few people believe what you believe. Sorry, there is no hand-waiving.


And yes the LP has no talent to run (same with Green party) ... because, duh, anyone with any talent to run as a politician is steered far clear from a losing cause like the LP or the GP.

So inexorably they run weirdo policy nerds with odd personalities that appeal to no one.

There is no doubt that the LP fails miserably with its candidates and does a terrible job relaying its ideals..but..That does not mean that its basic ideal is not generally mainstream. I'd submit that most people are in agreement with the principle of non aggression. They just don't know it is the crux of Libertarianism and the LP fails to push the message correctly.

Boggles my mind (Not really. Always knew the Trump train was a fraud). All we were hearing from the express riders were anti-establishment this anti-establishment that. Gonna kick 'em all out. A vote for Trump is a kick to the nuts of the establishment. Kept calling ME an establishment Republican. Still wrong. Is that not pretty obvious by now. Now all we see is a total embrace of the establishment. Gonna primary all the good principled anti-establishment out now. To freaking funny. And sad. And pathetic.

I'd be happy to send all that butt cream I had absolutely no use for back to all of you. Hear it sooths the fraud too.

(03-27-2017 06:26 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Boggles my mind (Not really. Always knew the Trump train was a fraud). All we were hearing from the express riders were anti-establishment this anti-establishment that. Gonna kick 'em all out. A vote for Trump is a kick to the nuts of the establishment. Kept calling ME an establishment Republican. Still wrong. Is that not pretty obvious by now. Now all we see is a total embrace of the establishment. Gonna primary all the good principled anti-establishment out now. To freaking funny. And sad. And pathetic.

I'd be happy to send all that butt cream I had absolutely no use for back to all of you. Hear it sooths the fraud too.

NO....the premise behind "drain the swamp" was to eradicate washington stalemating...

you're only mirroring mach with this spew....

and there wasn't one of us that thought this was going to be placed on cruise control in an attempt to create real change...DJT is all about negotiating....that's why we lobbied for him...

this hard line combatant rhetoric is why this shite exists to begin with....all you're doing is finger banging yourself and simply a stalwart for always "NO"

(03-26-2017 10:15 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 09:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:31 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:25 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 08:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I'm waiting for the GOP to take Jim DeMint's advice and declare a truce on social issues with libertarians

After Obergfell and Casey (the affirmation and parsing of Roe), what social issues are really left?

Social conservatives keep bashing their head on backdoor restrictions to abortion (like Texas tries time after time after time), but at a national level there truly are no 'social issues' left.

You aren't woke if you think that.

I really dont think that deciding who gets to pee in which bathroom is anywhere near the stature of gay marriage and abortion. If it is of that import to the Republicans, then their goals are really low.....

Not the right that brings this stuff up. Don't know why people keep blaming the right for what the left does.

Because anybody who opposes them in a Nazi (humorous video in other thread-pretty talented guys put it together).

There's been no swamp draining. Still have a DC doing a crappy job.

I don't recall all this talk about electing Trump because we want something, anything, no matter if it sucks biggly, done. I was hearing "fix".

"We need the House". We gave 'em the House.

We need the Senate". We gave 'em the Senate.

We need the Presidency". We gave 'em the Presidency.

"We still can't do what we promised we'd do if we got all those things, still need something more. We'll ask for it when we figure it out. (let me help 'em. A spine. Some integrity.)". I see a pattern here.

If you voted for Trump because you wanted a negotiator, might want to get a note to him. And he can't be excused in this whole fiasco if he was expected to negotiate things.