(03-26-2017 01:34 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If Trump didn't like the outcome, maybe he should have put actual effort into the policy itself. Because his own top aides were telling the media he "either didn't know, didn't care, or both" regarding the policy behind the bill.

We will see your thinking is right.

GOP has had at least 6 years to formulate a passable plan. Trump has been president for 60 or so days. He will be safe in 2018.

435 seats will be contested in 2018.

We still have obamacare.

(03-26-2017 01:24 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its an interesting strategy. Basically, he's moving on----leaving the Freedom Caucus/Heritage etc to explain to their voters why they still have OC and are still funding Planned Parenthood. I think the strategy may work. I think what Trump is doing is walking way from both Ryan Care AND Obama Care. If the Republican majority wants to do something, they will have to come together, craft a bill that both sides support---and then bring it to the president with the votes. Otherwise---the president is done with it until it Obamacare collapses and enough Dems are willing to work on it to ensure success. He's not going to go to battle again with a fractured party that cant shoot straight.

He's not directly blaming Paul Ryan, because that might hurt him with his own party, but he's washing his hands of it and waiting for the GOP to do something about it, if that involves removing Paul Ryan, he's fine with it.

I still think he greatly underestimated the actual support out there for the current law, so he's doing whatever he can to get out of the way and let the chips fall where they may, confident of his own belief that the original plan will fail.

So you're saying it's worse than what's been reported? because it had next to no support to begin with.

All we need to do is try and work on lower the cost. We have put price caps on some things in the past. I think we could place a price cap to make it where people can afford to buy insurance, and have everybody pay the same amount. No matter if they have health issues or not. It is just discrimination against people who have cancer or born with a disability.

(03-26-2017 01:34 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If Trump didn't like the outcome, maybe he should have put actual effort into the policy itself. Because his own top aides were telling the media he "either didn't know, didn't care, or both" regarding the policy behind the bill.

Fake news. He's smarter than that.

(03-26-2017 01:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its an interesting strategy. Basically, he's moving on----leaving the Freedom Caucus/Heritage etc to explain to their voters why they still have OC and are still funding Planned Parenthood. I think the strategy may work. I think what Trump is doing is walking way from both Ryan Care AND Obama Care. If the Republican majority wants to do something, they will have to come together, craft a bill that both sides support---and then bring it to the president with the votes. Otherwise---the president is done with it until it Obamacare collapses and enough Dems are willing to work on it to ensure success. He's not going to go to battle again with a fractured party that cant shoot straight.

Agree. This sits solely on the GOP obstructionists in 2018. If they can't repeal it before then they are going to answer for it at the polls.

No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

(03-26-2017 02:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its an interesting strategy. Basically, he's moving on----leaving the Freedom Caucus/Heritage etc to explain to their voters why they still have OC and are still funding Planned Parenthood. I think the strategy may work. I think what Trump is doing is walking way from both Ryan Care AND Obama Care. If the Republican majority wants to do something, they will have to come together, craft a bill that both sides support---and then bring it to the president with the votes. Otherwise---the president is done with it until it Obamacare collapses and enough Dems are willing to work on it to ensure success. He's not going to go to battle again with a fractured party that cant shoot straight.

Agree. This sits solely on the GOP obstructionists in 2018. If they can't repeal it before then they are going to answer for it at the polls.

No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

We shall see. People are angry and the freedom caucus rep in my state will likely be replaced. Time will tell

Im through with this topic

https://youtu.be/v-0CMKnlfuM

I bet Trump will work with everybody, call people together without the Freedom Caca, and fixed the the ACA and call it Obama Trump care. Obama would work with Trump to fix the problems. It could be the first time a bill with the work of two Presidents could work well, and unite the country in a big way.

(03-26-2017 02:18 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I bet Trump will work with everybody, call people together without the Freedom Caca, and fixed the the ACA and call it Obama Trump care. Obama would work with Trump to fix the problems. It could be the first time a bill with the work of two Presidents could work well, and unite the country in a big way.

You expect Obama to do anything after the birther movement and now spy gate. Puff, puff, pass.

(03-26-2017 01:24 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its an interesting strategy. Basically, he's moving on----leaving the Freedom Caucus/Heritage etc to explain to their voters why they still have OC and are still funding Planned Parenthood. I think the strategy may work. I think what Trump is doing is walking way from both Ryan Care AND Obama Care. If the Republican majority wants to do something, they will have to come together, craft a bill that both sides support---and then bring it to the president with the votes. Otherwise---the president is done with it until it Obamacare collapses and enough Dems are willing to work on it to ensure success. He's not going to go to battle again with a fractured party that cant shoot straight.

He's not directly blaming Paul Ryan, because that might hurt him with his own party, but he's washing his hands of it and waiting for the GOP to do something about it, if that involves removing Paul Ryan, he's fine with it.

I still think he greatly underestimated the actual support out there for the current law, so he's doing whatever he can to get out of the way and let the chips fall where they may, confident of his own belief that the original plan will fail.

There's honestly little support for the current law. It has a few features people like---but everyone is paying higher healthcare bills because of it and know that the steady increases will make heathcare insurance unaffordable for many. When you consider that 60% of all Americans say they could not currently pay a $400 unexpected bill without selling something or getting a loan---we are essentially already at that point.

The issue isn't suprisingly strong support for Obamacare. That doesn't exist. The issue is the Republicans won by being the monolithic party AGAINST Obamacare---but that does not mean the Republicans are necessarily a united group FOR much of anything.

The same fractured Republican party you saw in the primary is the same party that won. As someone on ABC pointed out today---that same Republican party that was so weak and fractured during the primary--that a person from the outside actually won the nomination---is the same party that is now trying to govern.....Trump has his work cut out for him.

His best bet might be building a Reagan like coalition of Republicans and moderate crossover Dems from working class districts. A tax bill and an infrastructure bill might be the perfect two pieces of legislation to do that with.

(03-26-2017 02:13 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its an interesting strategy. Basically, he's moving on----leaving the Freedom Caucus/Heritage etc to explain to their voters why they still have OC and are still funding Planned Parenthood. I think the strategy may work. I think what Trump is doing is walking way from both Ryan Care AND Obama Care. If the Republican majority wants to do something, they will have to come together, craft a bill that both sides support---and then bring it to the president with the votes. Otherwise---the president is done with it until it Obamacare collapses and enough Dems are willing to work on it to ensure success. He's not going to go to battle again with a fractured party that cant shoot straight.

Agree. This sits solely on the GOP obstructionists in 2018. If they can't repeal it before then they are going to answer for it at the polls.

No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

We shall see. People are angry and the freedom caucus rep in my state will likely be replaced.

Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:13 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its an interesting strategy. Basically, he's moving on----leaving the Freedom Caucus/Heritage etc to explain to their voters why they still have OC and are still funding Planned Parenthood. I think the strategy may work. I think what Trump is doing is walking way from both Ryan Care AND Obama Care. If the Republican majority wants to do something, they will have to come together, craft a bill that both sides support---and then bring it to the president with the votes. Otherwise---the president is done with it until it Obamacare collapses and enough Dems are willing to work on it to ensure success. He's not going to go to battle again with a fractured party that cant shoot straight.

Agree. This sits solely on the GOP obstructionists in 2018. If they can't repeal it before then they are going to answer for it at the polls.

No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

We shall see. People are angry and the freedom caucus rep in my state will likely be replaced.

Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor. If that happens---all will be forgotten.

As for Trump, it reminds me of the a lot of the first 2 months of Regan. He couldn't get anything done early on. He got shot near the very end of March--just a couple of months into his first year in office. When he returned from his injuries---he suddenly had a ton of good will behind him. That was when he started getting things done. Before that---everything he wanted was dead on arrival.

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:13 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Agree. This sits solely on the GOP obstructionists in 2018. If they can't repeal it before then they are going to answer for it at the polls.

No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

We shall see. People are angry and the freedom caucus rep in my state will likely be replaced.

Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor.

This was reconciliation...you can only do so much without needing 60 votes in the Senate...which you will NOT get.

So the only way to deal with Obamacare was to come up with something that would pass the House....require only 51 votes in the Senate and pass there. At this point you take what you can get and pass a bill.

It reminds me a lot of Senator Tim Hutchinson here in Arkansas. He was a reliable conservative vote in the Senate...one of the most reliable solid conservative votes there was. But he divorced his wife and married his secretary....and conservatives gasped and refused to vote for him and he got defeated and we got years of Mark Pryor instead of a reliable conservative vote.

So Freedom Caucus can all pat each other on the back about how good they feel about their principled failure while they break their promise and America is stuck with a horrible socialist healthcare system that is a drag on the economy. Congratulations!

(03-26-2017 02:46 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:13 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

We shall see. People are angry and the freedom caucus rep in my state will likely be replaced.

Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor.

This was reconciliation...you can only do so much without needing 60 votes in the Senate...which you will NOT get.

So the only way to deal with Obamacare was to come up with something that would pass the House....require only 51 votes in the Senate and pass there. At this point you take what you can get and pass a bill.

It reminds me a lot of Senator Tim Hutchinson here in Arkansas. He was a reliable conservative vote in the Senate...one of the most reliable solid conservative votes there was. But he divorced his wife and married his secretary....and conservatives gasped and refused to vote for him and he got defeated and we got years of Mark Pryor instead of a reliable conservative vote.

So Freedom Caucus can all pat each other on the back about how good they feel about their principled failure while they break their promise and America is stuck with a horrible socialist healthcare system that is a drag on the economy. Congratulations!

That's why I think they should just repeal it. The replacement can come later. The fact the replacement will require 60 votes might actually be a good thing. It means it will have to be a bill that makes enough sense to garner broad bi-partisan support.

The replacement will have to start with the political/economic realities. It will have to cover pre-existing conditions. Any bill without that cannot pass. By the same token, if you cover pre-existing conditions, then there has to be a penalty for those who choose to not buy coverage until they are sick (that's an economic reality). Any healthcare bill has to start from there---because those are the two realities we cant avoid.

(03-26-2017 02:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:46 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:13 PM)shere khan Wrote:  We shall see. People are angry and the freedom caucus rep in my state will likely be replaced.

Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor.

This was reconciliation...you can only do so much without needing 60 votes in the Senate...which you will NOT get.

So the only way to deal with Obamacare was to come up with something that would pass the House....require only 51 votes in the Senate and pass there. At this point you take what you can get and pass a bill.

It reminds me a lot of Senator Tim Hutchinson here in Arkansas. He was a reliable conservative vote in the Senate...one of the most reliable solid conservative votes there was. But he divorced his wife and married his secretary....and conservatives gasped and refused to vote for him and he got defeated and we got years of Mark Pryor instead of a reliable conservative vote.

So Freedom Caucus can all pat each other on the back about how good they feel about their principled failure while they break their promise and America is stuck with a horrible socialist healthcare system that is a drag on the economy. Congratulations!

That's why I think they should just repeal it. The replacement can come later. The fact the replacement will require 60 votes might actually be a good thing. It means it will have to be a bill that makes enough sense to garner broad bi-partisan support.

But they can also filibuster a repeal so it would take 60 votes which can't happen. This is even assuming that your pseudo-Republicans from Maine et. al. would be on board to get 51.

At this point, take what you can get to eliminate the most socialist parts of the thing and pass a bill, even if it is nowhere near what you want. It's still better than Obamacare.

Such a chance to gut it with both houses and the executive may not come again for a very, very, long time.

(03-26-2017 02:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:46 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor.

This was reconciliation...you can only do so much without needing 60 votes in the Senate...which you will NOT get.

So the only way to deal with Obamacare was to come up with something that would pass the House....require only 51 votes in the Senate and pass there. At this point you take what you can get and pass a bill.

It reminds me a lot of Senator Tim Hutchinson here in Arkansas. He was a reliable conservative vote in the Senate...one of the most reliable solid conservative votes there was. But he divorced his wife and married his secretary....and conservatives gasped and refused to vote for him and he got defeated and we got years of Mark Pryor instead of a reliable conservative vote.

So Freedom Caucus can all pat each other on the back about how good they feel about their principled failure while they break their promise and America is stuck with a horrible socialist healthcare system that is a drag on the economy. Congratulations!

That's why I think they should just repeal it. The replacement can come later. The fact the replacement will require 60 votes might actually be a good thing. It means it will have to be a bill that makes enough sense to garner broad bi-partisan support.

But they can also filibuster a repeal so it would take 60 votes which can't happen. This is even assuming that your pseudo-Republicans from Maine et. al. would be on board to get 51.

At this point, take what you can get to eliminate the most socialist parts of the thing and pass a bill, even if it is nowhere near what you want. It's still better than Obamacare.

Such a chance to gut it with both houses and the executive may not come again for a very, very, long time.

I don't think that's right. Otherwise Ryancare would have required 60 votes as well since it repeals Obamacare. That said, Im no reconciliation expert--so maybe your right.

(03-26-2017 01:34 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If Trump didn't like the outcome, maybe he should have put actual effort into the policy itself. Because his own top aides were telling the media he "either didn't know, didn't care, or both" regarding the policy behind the bill.

c'mon gts, you know that isn't how this works. if thw FC had something better it is on them to make it happen, not Trump the bill starts in the house not the oval office.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(03-26-2017 02:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:46 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Year after year, I hear the Tea Party wing of the republican party is going to get replaced at the polls... and they only gain more seats. These Freedom Caucus members grew out of the Tea Party. Establishment republicans have been dropping the ball for years. Their inability to get behind a clean repeal (as they have in the past), is the reason why the house didn't get it done.

Never in the history of our country have the people ever been forced to purchase anything.... until Obamacare was forced on us by democrats. It is hard to be a free, when the government is forcing you to buy something. Obamacare needs to be repealed in its entirety. After that, we can work on crafting a real solution to the medical system.

The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor.

This was reconciliation...you can only do so much without needing 60 votes in the Senate...which you will NOT get.

So the only way to deal with Obamacare was to come up with something that would pass the House....require only 51 votes in the Senate and pass there. At this point you take what you can get and pass a bill.

It reminds me a lot of Senator Tim Hutchinson here in Arkansas. He was a reliable conservative vote in the Senate...one of the most reliable solid conservative votes there was. But he divorced his wife and married his secretary....and conservatives gasped and refused to vote for him and he got defeated and we got years of Mark Pryor instead of a reliable conservative vote.

So Freedom Caucus can all pat each other on the back about how good they feel about their principled failure while they break their promise and America is stuck with a horrible socialist healthcare system that is a drag on the economy. Congratulations!

That's why I think they should just repeal it. The replacement can come later. The fact the replacement will require 60 votes might actually be a good thing. It means it will have to be a bill that makes enough sense to garner broad bi-partisan support.

But they can also filibuster a repeal so it would take 60 votes which can't happen. This is even assuming that your pseudo-Republicans from Maine et. al. would be on board to get 51.

At this point, take what you can get to eliminate the most socialist parts of the thing and pass a bill, even if it is nowhere near what you want. It's still better than Obamacare.

Such a chance to gut it with both houses and the executive may not come again for a very, very, long time.

Yep straight repeal doesn't fall under reconciliation so passing that does no good.

(03-26-2017 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:46 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The problem with the Tea Party is they don't understand winning. You NEVER get everthing you want at one time in a political system like ours. Moving the ball in the right direction is the real goal (lol---often, just not having the ball in the wrong direction is a win these days). Im not convinced the Ryancare bill was all that great--so, Im not that bothered by its failure. I do think its failure may result in a better bill that is cooperatively written by all stakeholders allowing it to have a majority coalition BEFORE being brought to the floor.

This was reconciliation...you can only do so much without needing 60 votes in the Senate...which you will NOT get.

So the only way to deal with Obamacare was to come up with something that would pass the House....require only 51 votes in the Senate and pass there. At this point you take what you can get and pass a bill.

It reminds me a lot of Senator Tim Hutchinson here in Arkansas. He was a reliable conservative vote in the Senate...one of the most reliable solid conservative votes there was. But he divorced his wife and married his secretary....and conservatives gasped and refused to vote for him and he got defeated and we got years of Mark Pryor instead of a reliable conservative vote.

So Freedom Caucus can all pat each other on the back about how good they feel about their principled failure while they break their promise and America is stuck with a horrible socialist healthcare system that is a drag on the economy. Congratulations!

That's why I think they should just repeal it. The replacement can come later. The fact the replacement will require 60 votes might actually be a good thing. It means it will have to be a bill that makes enough sense to garner broad bi-partisan support.

But they can also filibuster a repeal so it would take 60 votes which can't happen. This is even assuming that your pseudo-Republicans from Maine et. al. would be on board to get 51.

At this point, take what you can get to eliminate the most socialist parts of the thing and pass a bill, even if it is nowhere near what you want. It's still better than Obamacare.

Such a chance to gut it with both houses and the executive may not come again for a very, very, long time.

I don't think that's right. Otherwise Ryancare would have required 60 votes as well since it repeals Obamacare. That said, Im no reconciliation expert.

The specific reason Ryancare is so convoluted is because only certain things can be addressed and have it still fall under the reconciliation process. They passed a mock version that was vetoed by Obama to try to test what can and can't go through that process.

(03-26-2017 03:08 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:51 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 02:46 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  This was reconciliation...you can only do so much without needing 60 votes in the Senate...which you will NOT get.

So the only way to deal with Obamacare was to come up with something that would pass the House....require only 51 votes in the Senate and pass there. At this point you take what you can get and pass a bill.

It reminds me a lot of Senator Tim Hutchinson here in Arkansas. He was a reliable conservative vote in the Senate...one of the most reliable solid conservative votes there was. But he divorced his wife and married his secretary....and conservatives gasped and refused to vote for him and he got defeated and we got years of Mark Pryor instead of a reliable conservative vote.

So Freedom Caucus can all pat each other on the back about how good they feel about their principled failure while they break their promise and America is stuck with a horrible socialist healthcare system that is a drag on the economy. Congratulations!

That's why I think they should just repeal it. The replacement can come later. The fact the replacement will require 60 votes might actually be a good thing. It means it will have to be a bill that makes enough sense to garner broad bi-partisan support.

But they can also filibuster a repeal so it would take 60 votes which can't happen. This is even assuming that your pseudo-Republicans from Maine et. al. would be on board to get 51.

At this point, take what you can get to eliminate the most socialist parts of the thing and pass a bill, even if it is nowhere near what you want. It's still better than Obamacare.

Such a chance to gut it with both houses and the executive may not come again for a very, very, long time.

I don't think that's right. Otherwise Ryancare would have required 60 votes as well since it repeals Obamacare. That said, Im no reconciliation expert.

The specific reason Ryancare is so convoluted is because only certain things can be addressed and have it still fall under the reconciliation process. They passed a mock version that was vetoed by Obama to try to test what can and can't go through that process.

Welp---so much for my idea.

(03-26-2017 02:11 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-26-2017 01:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its an interesting strategy. Basically, he's moving on----leaving the Freedom Caucus/Heritage etc to explain to their voters why they still have OC and are still funding Planned Parenthood. I think the strategy may work. I think what Trump is doing is walking way from both Ryan Care AND Obama Care. If the Republican majority wants to do something, they will have to come together, craft a bill that both sides support---and then bring it to the president with the votes. Otherwise---the president is done with it until it Obamacare collapses and enough Dems are willing to work on it to ensure success. He's not going to go to battle again with a fractured party that cant shoot straight.

Agree. This sits solely on the GOP obstructionists in 2018. If they can't repeal it before then they are going to answer for it at the polls.

No, they won't. These people were sent to Washington to get rid of Obamacare, not place a new version of it on the backs of Americans. These establishment house republicans have passed "clean" repeals of Obamacare in the past. Now, that they have both chambers and the presidency, they won't step up and do it. They will have to go before the voters of their districts and explain why they would not pass a clean repeal.

I have news for you. The representatives within the Freedom Caucus won't be replaced at the polls in 2018. The voters in those districts will keep sending them back. I have said it before... Trump's ability to successfully govern is directly tied to his ability to appease the Freedom Caucus. His resent post was a bad mistake.

That was prior to full implementation of ObamaCare? If you do that now a bunch of people lose their insurance I am guessing.

Trump should invite CEOs of Hospital systems and Practice groups. Tell them to coordinate with their smartest people, put stuff on paper and come to DC for a week long "Health Insurance Summit". Insurance CEOs come also.