(03-20-2016 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's ridiculous how this is presented as a race issue. It's a socioeconomic issue. Poor people tend to have more behavioral problem. Blacks as a group are poorer therefore they have more behavioral issues.

Nobody is saying it is because of their race. But, as a group they have more problems.

As well as socioeconomic, my suspicion is that it's more prevalent in urban school districts when compared with rural ones...........why would that be the case?

Anecdotally, I knew that minority kids weren't disciplined to any greater degree than white kids and have always known that urban schools had much greater problems - and I'm taking poor rural schools. I've always wondered why it's that way.

(03-20-2016 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's ridiculous how this is presented as a race issue. It's a socioeconomic issue. Poor people tend to have more behavioral problem. Blacks as a group are poorer therefore they have more behavioral issues.

Nobody is saying it is because of their race. But, as a group they have more problems.

This is true. Food in the frig and a bed to sleep in do wonders for not only a child's GPA but also their attitude.

Well, at least Fit is now admitting that charter schools have higher test scores.

(03-20-2016 03:20 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Well, at least Fit is now admitting that charter schools have higher test scores.

even he can't prove 1 + 1 = 1

Here's an article from National Review talking about Owsley County, KY, the poorest county in the country, which is 98.5% white.

http://www.nationalreview.com/node/367903/print

Quote:[Police] Chief Logsdon has time to indulge his hobbies because the Big White Ghetto is different from most other ghettos in one very important way: There’s not much violent crime here. There’s a bit of the usual enterprise one finds everywhere there are drugs and poor people, which is to say, everywhere: Police have just broken up a ring of car burglars who had the inspired idea of pulling off their capers during church services, when all the good people were otherwise occupied. [...]

There’s a great deal of drug use, welfare fraud, and the like, but the overall crime rate throughout Appalachia is about two-thirds the national average, and the rate of violent crime is half the national average, according to the National Criminal Justice Reference Service.

How poor is Owsley County? This poor...

Quote:The per capita income for the county was $10,742. About 41.7% of families and 45.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 56.3% of those under age 18 and 34.5% of those age 65 or over.

(03-20-2016 03:20 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Well, at least Fit is now admitting that charter schools have higher test scores.

Well they don't really. You are falling for media hype. The media tends to report on charters that either are doing amazing things or shut down. They tend to report on poor preforming public schools. Research finds that charters and traditional public schools do about the same.

Quote:Charter Schools Nationwide Not Better, Maybe Worse, than Public Schools *

Research on charter schools paints a mixed picture. A number of recent national studies have reached the same conclusion: charter schools do not, on average, show greater levels of student achievement, typically measured by standardized test scores, than public schools, and may even perform worse.

The Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford University found in a 2009 report that 17% of charter schools outperformed their public school equivalents, while 37% of charter schools performed worse than regular local schools, and the rest were about the same. A 2010 study by Mathematica Policy Research found that, on average, charter middle schools that held lotteries were neither more nor less successful than regular middle schools in improving student achievement, behavior, or school progress. Among the charter schools considered in the study, more had statistically significant negative effects on student achievement than statistically significant positive effects. These findings are echoed in a number of other studies.

Variations in Charter School Performance

While research tends to show that charters do not, on average, outperform public schools, these studies have found wide variation in charter quality.

Charter school performance may vary geographically. Studies by Caroline Hoxby and by the authors of the CREDO report both found that charter schools in the New York City tended to outperform public schools in the city, for example, while a 2009 study by the RAND Corporation found that charter middle schools appeared to be falling short of public middle schools in Chicago (in reading) and in Texas (in both reading and math).

Charter school research has also found variation based on student demographics and subject matter. A literature review of studies of charter schools concluded that they frequently produced higher test scores in elementary school reading and middle school math compared to public schools, although the effect sizes were small in the latter case, but that they often scored significantly lower in tests of high school reading and math. The Mathematica study found that charter schools serving the largest proportions of low income or low achieving students had positive effects on students' test scores, particularly in math; conversely, charter schools serving more advantaged or higher-achieving students had negative effects.

http://www.educationjustice.org/newslett...vement.htm

The report linked to is from 2010. More recent studies, including a new update from Stanford CREDO, show that charters do produce higher results.

Quote:A new study of charter schools shows that they are making a meaningful difference for underserved kids in many of our nation’s cities,....On net, the findings are good news for charter schools: Across the 41 cities studied, students in charter schools learned significantly more than their peers attending traditional public schools

Link

Here's another interesting study taking budgets into consideration (charters usually have less money):

Quote:charter schools overall being 40 percent more cost-effective in math and 41 percent more cost effective in reading, compared to traditional public schools...

Link NPR

(03-20-2016 03:09 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It's ridiculous how this is presented as a race issue. It's a socioeconomic issue. Poor people tend to have more behavioral problem. Blacks as a group are poorer therefore they have more behavioral issues.

Nobody is saying it is because of their race. But, as a group they have more problems.

This is true. Food in the frig and a bed to sleep in do wonders for not only a child's GPA but also their attitude.

Very *very* few kids lack food in the frig and a bed to sleep in. Even among the poor.

The bigger problem is that among the poor you have more single parent families. That stretches the amount of attention kids get from parents.

(03-20-2016 09:35 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Research on charter schools paints a mixed picture. A number of recent national studies have reached the same conclusion: charter schools do not, on average, show greater levels of student achievement, typically measured by standardized test scores, than public schools, and may even perform worse.

Unless this study is normalizing around the district in which charters are located you're comparing apples and oranges.

The question is not "nationally on average how do charters do". It should be "Nationally, on average, how do charters do against other schools in their district".

Quote:The Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford University found in a 2009 report that 17% of charter schools outperformed their public school equivalents, while 37% of charter schools performed worse than regular local schools, and the rest were about the same.

National averages are meaningless.

Quote:Charter school performance may vary geographically. Studies by Caroline Hoxby and by the authors of the CREDO report both found that charter schools in the New York City tended to outperform public schools in the city, for example, while a 2009 study by the RAND Corporation found that charter middle schools appeared to be falling short of public middle schools in Chicago (in reading) and in Texas (in both reading and math).

New York City is a good place to look because of the size and diversity.

I've yet to see a study which does district by district and compares. Until then everyone is guessing. Parents should look at the school and how it performs among all the other schools to which they have access.

(03-20-2016 06:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

You would have to post some evidence to back that up because I just don't believe that to be true.

(03-20-2016 11:14 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 06:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

You would have to post some evidence to back that up because I just don't believe that to be true.

Now notice a couple of things... The rate of increase spikes in the mid 1960's. The rate of increase begins to fall off a little after 80 and then went flat in the mid 90's...

Now..

(03-20-2016 11:14 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 06:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

You would have to post some evidence to back that up because I just don't believe that to be true.

I looked up the make up of El Paso, Tx. 3% AA and similar make up for other non Hispanic groups, so I can see where You are not effected by similar problems facing other major cities in the rest of the country where large scale welfare exists, and family deterioration exists.You are lucky to live in a community that openly welcomes outsiders.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/el-paso/6...-paso.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paso,_Texas

WE could end this whole charade about charters if govt would do the right thing and issue vouchers.

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

happens in fatherless homes.

(03-21-2016 10:07 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

happens in fatherless homes.

The last year my mom taught in public school(2nd grade)the make up of her class was over 50% non traditional families. This was 15 years ago. No telling what that number is now.

(03-21-2016 05:22 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 11:14 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 06:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

You would have to post some evidence to back that up because I just don't believe that to be true.

I looked up the make up of El Paso, Tx. 3% AA and similar make up for other non Hispanic groups, so I can see where You are not effected by similar problems facing other major cities in the rest of the country where large scale welfare exists, and family deterioration exists.You are lucky to live in a community that openly welcomes outsiders.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/el-paso/6...-paso.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paso,_Texas

But you haven't proven that one causes the other.

Perhaps if Blacks weren't incarcerated at 6 times the rate of whites, there wouldn't be as many single mothers and those families would have the funds to not need welfare.

(03-21-2016 12:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Perhaps if Blacks weren't incarcerated at 6 times the rate of whites, there wouldn't be as many single mothers and those families would have the funds to not need welfare.

Good point, but what do you suggest we do when someone is caught committing a serious crime? I can get onboard with legalizing marijuana, but I don't know how much that will impact. You certainly can't legalize rape, robbery, burglary, murder, hard drugs, and domestic violence.

(03-21-2016 12:34 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Perhaps if Blacks weren't incarcerated at 6 times the rate of whites, there wouldn't be as many single mothers and those families would have the funds to not need welfare.

Good point, but what do you suggest we do when someone is caught committing a serious crime? I can get onboard with legalizing marijuana, but I don't know how much that will impact. You certainly can't legalize rape, robbery, burglary, murder, hard drugs, and domestic violence.

Of course not but let's not forget that in this country, a white boy can kill people while driving drunk and not go to jail but a black kid can be killed for eating skittles.

(03-21-2016 12:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:34 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:25 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Perhaps if Blacks weren't incarcerated at 6 times the rate of whites, there wouldn't be as many single mothers and those families would have the funds to not need welfare.

Good point, but what do you suggest we do when someone is caught committing a serious crime? I can get onboard with legalizing marijuana, but I don't know how much that will impact. You certainly can't legalize rape, robbery, burglary, murder, hard drugs, and domestic violence.

Of course not but let's not forget that in this country, a white boy can kill people while driving drunk and not go to jail but a black kid can be killed for eating skittles.

dumbest fuckin post of the year so far.