(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:04 PM)gsu95 Wrote:  Charter schools are as big a scam as for profit schools.

Id like to hear what constitutes the scam in this. Personally, coming from extremely pro public school household(Mother that taught 31 years) I hold the belief that it makes very little difference what school a child attends. The real factor is the amount of family involvement in that child's education. I would in fact submit that Charter schools have the highest amount of parental involvement(next to homeschooling) of any form of education. It is a shame that these parents do not choose to put the same level of involvement in the public schools and strive to improve them...but...to say that Charter schools are a scam? That is an absurd assertion.

agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:04 PM)gsu95 Wrote:  Charter schools are as big a scam as for profit schools.

Id like to hear what constitutes the scam in this. Personally, coming from extremely pro public school household(Mother that taught 31 years) I hold the belief that it makes very little difference what school a child attends. The real factor is the amount of family involvement in that child's education. I would in fact submit that Charter schools have the highest amount of parental involvement(next to homeschooling) of any form of education. It is a shame that these parents do not choose to put the same level of involvement in the public schools and strive to improve them...but...to say that Charter schools are a scam? That is an absurd assertion.

agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

isn't their salary prorated?

Charter schools are all over the place. You can't really make sweeping judgements about their success or failure. There is a world of difference between one located in an upper middle class Suburban area that attracts primarily that demographic and one located in an impoverished rural area that serves that demographic. Results here tend to be either very good or very bad. The schools (here) also tend to be serving specific segments of the population as opposed to traditional schools where you see the full range of population from the homeless to upper middle class two parent. It isn't that the charters aren't open to anyone that applies (and gets selected if there are more applicants then seats) but it is that people tend to gravitate to places they are most comfortable. Most charters appeal to specific demographics. To put it bluntly they tend to be overwhelmingly white upper class or black working class. Black upper class will got to the predominantly white upper class as well but not the black working class. Again, this is what I observe here in NC. I'm not saying that applies in other areas.

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

Duh! Self inflected at that .how hard is it really to just try to act normal for once ?

(03-19-2016 12:39 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Id like to hear what constitutes the scam in this. Personally, coming from extremely pro public school household(Mother that taught 31 years) I hold the belief that it makes very little difference what school a child attends. The real factor is the amount of family involvement in that child's education. I would in fact submit that Charter schools have the highest amount of parental involvement(next to homeschooling) of any form of education. It is a shame that these parents do not choose to put the same level of involvement in the public schools and strive to improve them...but...to say that Charter schools are a scam? That is an absurd assertion.

agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

isn't their salary prorated?

If the school year (number of days) is increased then pay would logically need to increase. If you are talking about keeping the same number of school days then it wouldn't need to go up. But that eliminates many opportunities for summer employment that many depend on to try and make ends meet. Also there are additional things to consider like utilities, fuel, wear and tear on equipment and facilities etc. Costs are a significant factor even without considering salaries.

(03-18-2016 10:49 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:21 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Isn't that for the teachers and administrators to decide?

What are you driving at? Are you calling the teachers liars?

If the percentages of students getting suspended is disproportionately black then that doesn't make them liars. It makes them something else.

Playing the race card I see. Typical. Could it actually be the students fault? Why in the hades is it always someone else's fault?

Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

There is a problem, but there is no solution that involves central planning. They need to figure it out on their own culturally. It's simple: obey the law, avoid teen pregnancy, avoid drugs and alcohol, be involved and don't withdraw, and 2 person household. Wait until marriage before children and if you knock a girl up, do the right thing even if it is short of marrying her.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Here comes thst culture word. Lol

(03-19-2016 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 10:49 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If the percentages of students getting suspended is disproportionately black then that doesn't make them liars. It makes them something else.

Playing the race card I see. Typical. Could it actually be the students fault? Why in the hades is it always someone else's fault?

Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

There is a problem, but there is no solution that involves central planning. They need to figure it out on their own culturally. It's simple: obey the law, avoid teen pregnancy, avoid drugs and alcohol, be involved and don't withdraw, and 2 person household. Wait until marriage before children and if you knock a girl up, do the right thing even if it is short of marrying her.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Here comes thst culture word. Lol

So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 10:49 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  Playing the race card I see. Typical. Could it actually be the students fault? Why in the hades is it always someone else's fault?

Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

There is a problem, but there is no solution that involves central planning. They need to figure it out on their own culturally. It's simple: obey the law, avoid teen pregnancy, avoid drugs and alcohol, be involved and don't withdraw, and 2 person household. Wait until marriage before children and if you knock a girl up, do the right thing even if it is short of marrying her.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Here comes thst culture word. Lol

So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

(03-18-2016 10:43 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The breakdown of the nuclear family is the reason behind this.

Truth.

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 10:49 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

There is a problem, but there is no solution that involves central planning. They need to figure it out on their own culturally. It's simple: obey the law, avoid teen pregnancy, avoid drugs and alcohol, be involved and don't withdraw, and 2 person household. Wait until marriage before children and if you knock a girl up, do the right thing even if it is short of marrying her.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Here comes thst culture word. Lol

So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

(03-19-2016 01:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:39 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

isn't their salary prorated?

If the school year (number of days) is increased then pay would logically need to increase. If you are talking about keeping the same number of school days then it wouldn't need to go up. But that eliminates many opportunities for summer employment that many depend on to try and make ends meet. Also there are additional things to consider like utilities, fuel, wear and tear on equipment and facilities etc. Costs are a significant factor even without considering salaries.

All true, good points.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

(03-19-2016 01:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:39 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

isn't their salary prorated?

If the school year (number of days) is increased then pay would logically need to increase. If you are talking about keeping the same number of school days then it wouldn't need to go up. But that eliminates many opportunities for summer employment that many depend on to try and make ends meet. Also there are additional things to consider like utilities, fuel, wear and tear on equipment and facilities etc. Costs are a significant factor even without considering salaries.

I would disagree and disallow that argument....mini breaks in between work both ways....number of days worked can be maintained if structured properly....

~3 mos off is as dumba as it gets coupled with the holidays that are already in place.....I ain't buying into the subsidizing income factor either....the question was aren't their salaries prorated....

my work is now seasonal.....why would theirs' be any different....I chose this path and so have they.....we both work longer days to get the job done as req'd......it's only a matter of getting it right that's the real issue....hence, the problem with incompetence and spoiling the children....

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

So they are at fault, right. If they're going to a charter schools and everything is equal but if they are the ones that get in trouble they are to blame.

The Libtards of which you are one likes to try to pin Blacks problems on society even when things are on an EVEN Keel.

Those Blacks couldn't be in a worst situation than some of us who went to Bowie or Jefferson High School here in El Paso but yet we aren't in the same levels of getting into trouble like Blacks do.

Quit crying for losers Fit. Give the losers a bit of credit in that they know what they're doing and it's not good, and they don't care.

(03-19-2016 02:44 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

So they are at fault, right. If they're going to a charter schools and everything is equal but if they are the ones that get in trouble they are to blame.

The Libtards of which you are one likes to try to pin Blacks problems on society even when things are on an EVEN Keel.

Those Blacks couldn't be in a worst situation than some of us who went to Bowie or Jefferson High School here in El Paso but yet we aren't in the same levels of getting into trouble like Blacks do.

Quit crying for losers Fit. Give the losers a bit of credit in that they know what they're doing and it's not good, and they don't care.

fify bolded....is all that needed to be said....

(03-19-2016 02:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:39 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

isn't their salary prorated?

If the school year (number of days) is increased then pay would logically need to increase. If you are talking about keeping the same number of school days then it wouldn't need to go up. But that eliminates many opportunities for summer employment that many depend on to try and make ends meet. Also there are additional things to consider like utilities, fuel, wear and tear on equipment and facilities etc. Costs are a significant factor even without considering salaries.

I would disagree and disallow that argument....mini breaks in between work both ways....number of days worked can be maintained if structured properly....

~3 mos off is as dumba as it gets coupled with the holidays that are already in place.....I ain't buying into the subsidizing income factor either....the question was aren't their salaries prorated....

my work is now seasonal.....why would theirs' be any different....I chose this path and so have they.....we both work longer days to get the job done as req'd......it's only a matter of getting it right that's the real issue....hence, the problem with incompetence and spoiling the children....

Mini breaks are much more difficult to manage for parents that work. Spring break is the worst. Who wants to take a week off in 55 degree weather and rain.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

(03-19-2016 03:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:39 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  They don't want to spend the additional money.

isn't their salary prorated?

If the school year (number of days) is increased then pay would logically need to increase. If you are talking about keeping the same number of school days then it wouldn't need to go up. But that eliminates many opportunities for summer employment that many depend on to try and make ends meet. Also there are additional things to consider like utilities, fuel, wear and tear on equipment and facilities etc. Costs are a significant factor even without considering salaries.

I would disagree and disallow that argument....mini breaks in between work both ways....number of days worked can be maintained if structured properly....

~3 mos off is as dumba as it gets coupled with the holidays that are already in place.....I ain't buying into the subsidizing income factor either....the question was aren't their salaries prorated....

my work is now seasonal.....why would theirs' be any different....I chose this path and so have they.....we both work longer days to get the job done as req'd......it's only a matter of getting it right that's the real issue....hence, the problem with incompetence and spoiling the children....

Mini breaks are much more difficult to manage for parents that work. Spring break is the worst. Who wants to take a week off in 55 degree weather and rain.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

that's a great point...is where the family structure comes into play....

having said that, that would also create another business sector that could be developed....

another is leaving the children alone and letting them learn on their own becomes more acceptable.....kinda like when kids were just kids.....

again, the larger problem is too many people, wealth gap widening, single family provider, internutz.....etc....

one has to maintain wealth as the driver before boarding the bus......the rest will only have a better chance if that one is shored up...

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:04 PM)gsu95 Wrote:  Charter schools are as big a scam as for profit schools.

Id like to hear what constitutes the scam in this. Personally, coming from extremely pro public school household(Mother that taught 31 years) I hold the belief that it makes very little difference what school a child attends. The real factor is the amount of family involvement in that child's education. I would in fact submit that Charter schools have the highest amount of parental involvement(next to homeschooling) of any form of education. It is a shame that these parents do not choose to put the same level of involvement in the public schools and strive to improve them...but...to say that Charter schools are a scam? That is an absurd assertion.

agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

Let's be clear. The "year round" calendar is not really a full year of school. They take much longer breaks around the holidays and as a consequence a much shorter summer.

My kids last two schools have been "year round" and the impact is about 5 weeks off for winter break, three weeks for spring, and in the summer we lose most of August.

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 10:49 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

There is a problem, but there is no solution that involves central planning. They need to figure it out on their own culturally. It's simple: obey the law, avoid teen pregnancy, avoid drugs and alcohol, be involved and don't withdraw, and 2 person household. Wait until marriage before children and if you knock a girl up, do the right thing even if it is short of marrying her.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Here comes thst culture word. Lol

So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Culture does not describe just beliefs, it also describes behavior. The left and it's policies have shavaged the African American family. What they believe is not really relevant right now. What is important is that upwards of 80% of AA kids are born without a dad.

That causes behavioral issues. Is the school not supposed to discipline them?

(03-19-2016 06:08 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Id like to hear what constitutes the scam in this. Personally, coming from extremely pro public school household(Mother that taught 31 years) I hold the belief that it makes very little difference what school a child attends. The real factor is the amount of family involvement in that child's education. I would in fact submit that Charter schools have the highest amount of parental involvement(next to homeschooling) of any form of education. It is a shame that these parents do not choose to put the same level of involvement in the public schools and strive to improve them...but...to say that Charter schools are a scam? That is an absurd assertion.

agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

Let's be clear. The "year round" calendar is not really a full year of school. They take much longer breaks around the holidays and as a consequence a much shorter summer.

My kids last two schools have been "year round" and the impact is about 5 weeks off for winter break, three weeks for spring, and in the summer we lose most of August.

I'm guessing that's working out pretty well for all parties? I can only hope the 'sip does the same....mine will be a Sr. next year so it won't matter in that regard....however, I've really grown to love the people in this township and state....they've taught me things I would never have learned had I stayed in StL and gone to Purdue....now it's time to pay it forward.....

(03-19-2016 03:19 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 03:16 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:39 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  isn't their salary prorated?

If the school year (number of days) is increased then pay would logically need to increase. If you are talking about keeping the same number of school days then it wouldn't need to go up. But that eliminates many opportunities for summer employment that many depend on to try and make ends meet. Also there are additional things to consider like utilities, fuel, wear and tear on equipment and facilities etc. Costs are a significant factor even without considering salaries.

I would disagree and disallow that argument....mini breaks in between work both ways....number of days worked can be maintained if structured properly....

~3 mos off is as dumba as it gets coupled with the holidays that are already in place.....I ain't buying into the subsidizing income factor either....the question was aren't their salaries prorated....

my work is now seasonal.....why would theirs' be any different....I chose this path and so have they.....we both work longer days to get the job done as req'd......it's only a matter of getting it right that's the real issue....hence, the problem with incompetence and spoiling the children....

Mini breaks are much more difficult to manage for parents that work. Spring break is the worst. Who wants to take a week off in 55 degree weather and rain.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

that's a great point...is where the family structure comes into play....

having said that, that would also create another business sector that could be developed....

another is leaving the children alone and letting them learn on their own becomes more acceptable.....kinda like when kids were just kids.....

again, the larger problem is too many people, wealth gap widening, single family provider, internutz.....etc....

one has to maintain wealth as the driver before boarding the bus......the rest will only have a better chance if that one is shored up...

Not necessarily family structure. My family structure is traditional, but since we both work full time, the breaks are difficult. Many more options for fun camps in the summer than in February when options would be limited to indoors. We could adapt, but I like the current structure better. Also being in a big tourist area, we rely on season work for the older kids. I suppose we could import more Eastern European and South Americans to do it, but I'd rather less of that than more of it.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk