(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 10:49 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  There is a problem, but there is no solution that involves central planning. They need to figure it out on their own culturally. It's simple: obey the law, avoid teen pregnancy, avoid drugs and alcohol, be involved and don't withdraw, and 2 person household. Wait until marriage before children and if you knock a girl up, do the right thing even if it is short of marrying her.

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Here comes thst culture word. Lol

So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.

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No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Here comes thst culture word. Lol

So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

A lot of them do, I agree, but it isn't the prevailing value in the inner city among young men where they fail to marry the mother of their child(ren) 80% of the time. Believe me, I know, even in the inner city, there is a good bit of involvement. My son plays in an inner city basketball league where he is one of two white players. One of the kids just went on vacation with us. I am very in tune with the inner city community. I've seen the best and the worst. If the best can start to prevail, we are going to be in much better shape across the board.

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(03-19-2016 02:20 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:07 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:39 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

isn't their salary prorated?

If the school year (number of days) is increased then pay would logically need to increase. If you are talking about keeping the same number of school days then it wouldn't need to go up. But that eliminates many opportunities for summer employment that many depend on to try and make ends meet. Also there are additional things to consider like utilities, fuel, wear and tear on equipment and facilities etc. Costs are a significant factor even without considering salaries.

I would disagree and disallow that argument....mini breaks in between work both ways....number of days worked can be maintained if structured properly....

~3 mos off is as dumba as it gets coupled with the holidays that are already in place.....I ain't buying into the subsidizing income factor either....the question was aren't their salaries prorated....

my work is now seasonal.....why would theirs' be any different....I chose this path and so have they.....we both work longer days to get the job done as req'd......it's only a matter of getting it right that's the real issue....hence, the problem with incompetence and spoiling the children....

I'm not opposed to year round school. Teachers here are 10 month employees. We can have a portion of each of those 10 checks withheld and get it doled out during the two months in the summer. It is optional. Opposition to year round school doesn't generally come from the teachers. Parents are the ones that don't want it.

(03-19-2016 06:08 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:58 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:09 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 09:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Id like to hear what constitutes the scam in this. Personally, coming from extremely pro public school household(Mother that taught 31 years) I hold the belief that it makes very little difference what school a child attends. The real factor is the amount of family involvement in that child's education. I would in fact submit that Charter schools have the highest amount of parental involvement(next to homeschooling) of any form of education. It is a shame that these parents do not choose to put the same level of involvement in the public schools and strive to improve them...but...to say that Charter schools are a scam? That is an absurd assertion.

agree with all, but the bolded hits home having moved to the 'sip and changing from private to public in '74 (4th grade)

not all are created eqaul.....yet....such is life.....however, the household environment provides more opportunity than any education can provide.....

well said and a succinct synopsis on the real problem that is occurring....

Another factor in the success of charter schools is that many of them operate all year. Even my mother who taught for decades will say that she spent almost a month each year getting the kids caught up the Summer breaks. There is really today no reason for public schools to not be year round.

They don't want to spend the additional money.

Let's be clear. The "year round" calendar is not really a full year of school. They take much longer breaks around the holidays and as a consequence a much shorter summer.

My kids last two schools have been "year round" and the impact is about 5 weeks off for winter break, three weeks for spring, and in the summer we lose most of August.

Yes but there are some additional costs involved. The schools are usually running with three "shifts" where about midway through the 1st group's first quarter the second group starts and when the first group takes their first extended break the 3rd group starts their year. It goes on like that throughout the year with two groups in class and one out at all times except holidays. It is a great way to maximize facilities allowing to avoid additional construction but you are also reducing the life of the building, putting more miles on the very expensive buses, burning more vehicle and heating/cooling fuel, hiring more support personnel and working overnight shifts to cover maintenance a since there are very few unoccupied days. There are some practical issues that may or may not out weigh the benefits.

(03-19-2016 11:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 06:08 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Let's be clear. The "year round" calendar is not really a full year of school. They take much longer breaks around the holidays and as a consequence a much shorter summer.

My kids last two schools have been "year round" and the impact is about 5 weeks off for winter break, three weeks for spring, and in the summer we lose most of August.

Yes but there are some additional costs involved. The schools are usually running with three "shifts" where about midway through the 1st group's first quarter the second group starts and when the first group takes their first extended break the 3rd group starts their year. It goes on like that throughout the year with two groups in class and one out at all times except holidays. It is a great way to maximize facilities allowing to avoid additional construction but you are also reducing the life of the building, putting more miles on the very expensive buses, burning more vehicle and heating/cooling fuel, hiring more support personnel and working overnight shifts to cover maintenance a since there are very few unoccupied days. There are some practical issues that may or may not out weigh the benefits.

That confuses me greatly.. Can you dumb it down a bit..

Same number of days per year (more or less) and the same number of breaks per year (more or less) but the breaks are of differing length.

How could the infrastructure costs and wear & tear be that different if a school chooses A or B?

(03-18-2016 08:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  you are just being facetious.

You got it.


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(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Here comes thst culture word. Lol

So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.
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No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

One thing is for sure reading this board - Fitbud is incapable of original thought.

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(03-20-2016 06:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

the welfare system easily promotes division of family....

when incentive becomes 'free', some will accept that as a level of acceptance and use that as leverage to become a little biatch....and that group grows larger by the day....

(03-20-2016 01:01 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 11:24 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 06:08 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Let's be clear. The "year round" calendar is not really a full year of school. They take much longer breaks around the holidays and as a consequence a much shorter summer.

My kids last two schools have been "year round" and the impact is about 5 weeks off for winter break, three weeks for spring, and in the summer we lose most of August.

Yes but there are some additional costs involved. The schools are usually running with three "shifts" where about midway through the 1st group's first quarter the second group starts and when the first group takes their first extended break the 3rd group starts their year. It goes on like that throughout the year with two groups in class and one out at all times except holidays. It is a great way to maximize facilities allowing to avoid additional construction but you are also reducing the life of the building, putting more miles on the very expensive buses, burning more vehicle and heating/cooling fuel, hiring more support personnel and working overnight shifts to cover maintenance a since there are very few unoccupied days. There are some practical issues that may or may not out weigh the benefits.

That confuses me greatly.. Can you dumb it down a bit..

Same number of days per year (more or less) and the same number of breaks per year (more or less) but the breaks are of differing length.

How could the infrastructure costs and wear & tear be that different if a school chooses A or B?

It isn't the same number of days per year for the building. The facility is being used year round. Whenever one track of students are on one of the breaks the other two are in school. Make sense now?

(03-20-2016 06:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:25 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  So you deny that children from traditional family paradigms do better in school? You deny that children from families that support them academically do better? You deny that drug, alcohol use and teen pregnancy contribute to poor academics? You deny that much of this is cultural in nature? OK.

I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

Any welfare system that promotes sitting on the porch as opposed to working leads to what we have today. The incentive should always be that one is better off financially working as opposed to on welfare, but alas - in today's system, that often isn't the case.

(03-20-2016 08:52 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 06:46 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 02:13 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 01:30 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I deny the notion that blacks somehow don't believe in these things because it's part of their "culture".

Do you think it is genetic then? Because that would be racist by definition.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No but it isn't part of their culture either. They want successful families just as much as we do.

Of course it's not part of their culture. It's driven by the perversely wrong-headed incentives in the welfare system. I am old enough to remember how strong the sense of family and family ties used to be in the African-American community. Welfare destroyed that. What we need is for the best parts of the community to become assertive again.

Any welfare system that promotes sitting on the porch as opposed to working leads to what we have today. The incentive should always be that one is better off financially working as opposed to on welfare, but alas - in today's system, that often isn't the case.

I don't agree with usage of "any"....however, I completely agree with that in premise...

the system needs to support and educate as the business fundamentals change....that I support...however, we first have to regain the ability to manufacture goods and rebuild infrastructure....the service industry offers zero value for those that can't speak correctly....

and it's that another (reform) what I believe the Donald will drive thru congress.....and is why 'they' are rioting, protesting, and letting the violence become a display that is shameful in my mind....

Growing up I was in a school system with a substantial black population (maybe about 1/3 black), and I do not buy for one second that black children do not misbehave more than white children.

Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence on my part and not actual data, but you can look at page 140 of the Bureau of Justice Statistics report of crimes in schools and see a table showing that there are more reported incidents of bad behavior by students the higher percentage of minorities there are at a school. If there was unequal punishments these reporting discrepancies wouldn't be there.

It's the same thing with crime data...people want to cry racism with incarceration rates of blacks but the DoJ's national surveys of crime victims that ask about the race of the perpetrator show the percentage of black perpetrators correspond to the incarceration rates of blacks.

Believing that these things can be remedies simply by trying to be more conscious of "racism" and privilege is not going to do any good and will only create more racial resentment.

We say that Ashkenazi Jews and oriential Asians do better than whites even with their white privilege because of culture, but when we try and say culture could be a culprit in economic gaps between blacks and whites then fits are pitched and accusations of racism fly.

(03-20-2016 10:49 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Growing up I was in a school system with a substantial black population (maybe about 1/3 black), and I do not buy for one second that black children do not misbehave more than white children.

Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence on my part and not actual data, but you can look at page 140 of the Bureau of Justice Statistics report of crimes in schools and see a table showing that there are more reported incidents of bad behavior by students the higher percentage of minorities there are at a school. If there was unequal punishments these reporting discrepancies wouldn't be there.

It's the same thing with crime data...people want to cry racism with incarceration rates of blacks but the DoJ's national surveys of crime victims that ask about the race of the perpetrator show the percentage of black perpetrators correspond to the incarceration rates of blacks.

Believing that these things can be remedies simply by trying to be more conscious of "racism" and privilege is not going to do any good and will only create more racial resentment.

We say that Ashkenazi Jews and oriential Asians do better than whites even with their white privilege because of culture, but when we try and say culture could be a culprit in economic gaps between blacks and whites then fits are pitched and accusations of racism fly.

XACLY! economics defines the imbalance....that and the religious divide is why war

(03-20-2016 11:13 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 10:49 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Growing up I was in a school system with a substantial black population (maybe about 1/3 black), and I do not buy for one second that black children do not misbehave more than white children.

Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence on my part and not actual data, but you can look at page 140 of the Bureau of Justice Statistics report of crimes in schools and see a table showing that there are more reported incidents of bad behavior by students the higher percentage of minorities there are at a school. If there was unequal punishments these reporting discrepancies wouldn't be there.

It's the same thing with crime data...people want to cry racism with incarceration rates of blacks but the DoJ's national surveys of crime victims that ask about the race of the perpetrator show the percentage of black perpetrators correspond to the incarceration rates of blacks.

Believing that these things can be remedies simply by trying to be more conscious of "racism" and privilege is not going to do any good and will only create more racial resentment.

We say that Ashkenazi Jews and oriential Asians do better than whites even with their white privilege because of culture, but when we try and say culture could be a culprit in economic gaps between blacks and whites then fits are pitched and accusations of racism fly.

XACLY! economics defines the imbalance....that and the religious divide is why war

Statistically, kids that come from families with more money do better in school. Lefties will quickly spout that if those that were poor just had money, those poor kids would do just as well.

What they fail to consider is the why they come from a poor situation. While intelligence isn't a requirement to be economically successful, it certainly helps. Willingness to work hard and do the daily grind, whatever the job, is probably more important.

Call it upbringing, culture, whatever you want. Work ethic is most important followed by intelligence, but when a kid comes from a family with neither - why would anyone wonder at their failure in school?

(03-20-2016 11:42 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 11:13 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 10:49 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Growing up I was in a school system with a substantial black population (maybe about 1/3 black), and I do not buy for one second that black children do not misbehave more than white children.

Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence on my part and not actual data, but you can look at page 140 of the Bureau of Justice Statistics report of crimes in schools and see a table showing that there are more reported incidents of bad behavior by students the higher percentage of minorities there are at a school. If there was unequal punishments these reporting discrepancies wouldn't be there.

It's the same thing with crime data...people want to cry racism with incarceration rates of blacks but the DoJ's national surveys of crime victims that ask about the race of the perpetrator show the percentage of black perpetrators correspond to the incarceration rates of blacks.

Believing that these things can be remedies simply by trying to be more conscious of "racism" and privilege is not going to do any good and will only create more racial resentment.

We say that Ashkenazi Jews and oriential Asians do better than whites even with their white privilege because of culture, but when we try and say culture could be a culprit in economic gaps between blacks and whites then fits are pitched and accusations of racism fly.

XACLY! economics defines the imbalance....that and the religious divide is why war

Statistically, kids that come from families with more money do better in school. Lefties will quickly spout that if those that were poor just had money, those poor kids would do just as well.

What they fail to consider is the why they come from a poor situation. While intelligence isn't a requirement to be economically successful, it certainly helps. Willingness to work hard and do the daily grind, whatever the job, is probably more important.

Call it upbringing, culture, whatever you want. Work ethic is most important followed by intelligence, but when a kid comes from a family with neither - why would anyone wonder at their failure in school?

another XACLY!

as I paraphrase as defined in the One Minute Manager, once the kiddie is spoiled, it becomes exponentially difficult to rewind and undo...

I'm still not sold the psyche of this cuntry is recoverable....people like fit and redweird define that to a T....to be fair, dixie cup and the other right winded crazies were no different....

lines 1, 3, and 4 didn't just pop out of zee head on a whim......

(03-20-2016 10:49 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Growing up I was in a school system with a substantial black population (maybe about 1/3 black), and I do not buy for one second that black children do not misbehave more than white children.

Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence on my part and not actual data, but you can look at page 140 of the Bureau of Justice Statistics report of crimes in schools and see a table showing that there are more reported incidents of bad behavior by students the higher percentage of minorities there are at a school. If there was unequal punishments these reporting discrepancies wouldn't be there.

It's the same thing with crime data...people want to cry racism with incarceration rates of blacks but the DoJ's national surveys of crime victims that ask about the race of the perpetrator show the percentage of black perpetrators correspond to the incarceration rates of blacks.

Believing that these things can be remedies simply by trying to be more conscious of "racism" and privilege is not going to do any good and will only create more racial resentment.

We say that Ashkenazi Jews and oriential Asians do better than whites even with their white privilege because of culture, but when we try and say culture could be a culprit in economic gaps between blacks and whites then fits are pitched and accusations of racism fly.

My high school was over 50% black and almost 100% of the kids in in school suspension were black

Schools aren't the problem. They're a symptom of the problem.

There's a reason people without children or any inclination to have them ask about the schools when house-hunting.

(03-20-2016 11:56 AM)dfarr Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 10:49 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Growing up I was in a school system with a substantial black population (maybe about 1/3 black), and I do not buy for one second that black children do not misbehave more than white children.

Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence on my part and not actual data, but you can look at page 140 of the Bureau of Justice Statistics report of crimes in schools and see a table showing that there are more reported incidents of bad behavior by students the higher percentage of minorities there are at a school. If there was unequal punishments these reporting discrepancies wouldn't be there.

It's the same thing with crime data...people want to cry racism with incarceration rates of blacks but the DoJ's national surveys of crime victims that ask about the race of the perpetrator show the percentage of black perpetrators correspond to the incarceration rates of blacks.

Believing that these things can be remedies simply by trying to be more conscious of "racism" and privilege is not going to do any good and will only create more racial resentment.

We say that Ashkenazi Jews and oriential Asians do better than whites even with their white privilege because of culture, but when we try and say culture could be a culprit in economic gaps between blacks and whites then fits are pitched and accusations of racism fly.

My high school was over 50% black and almost 100% of the kids in in school suspension were black

awwwwwww....

so that means what? that you went to a public school in an urban center?

too fk'n bad......life's a biatch, eh?

It's ridiculous how this is presented as a race issue. It's a socioeconomic issue. Poor people tend to have more behavioral problem. Blacks as a group are poorer therefore they have more behavioral issues.

Nobody is saying it is because of their race. But, as a group they have more problems.