(07-27-2015 11:46 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Do those numbers still include the fake enrollments set up by the IG in 2014 that the administration has yet to catch and purge?

no

(07-16-2015 12:09 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 09:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 09:27 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 08:32 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-04-2015 09:17 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  If I'm not mistaken about 68% buy Silver Plans. Those certainly aren't crap policies. Bronze policies could probably be classified as crap policies.

Unless you are getting the welfare handout on an exchange or are wealthy enough to buy a the Cadillac plan on your own....you are fcked. There are no reasonably priced plans that are not total schit. I spend almost 7 grand a year for such a schitty policy.

If you have a government job?...You better keep it. If your employer pays for your insurance?...you better stay with that company. Do whatever you have to do to NOT have to buy your own insurance.

Oh come on Fo you play golf in Pinehurst, you know you make the big bucks.

On occasion. I went last month with a group of 24. $275 for two nights at Talamore Resort including golf at Talamore and So Pines CC. Not a kings ransom for a weekend.

You know I'm just messing with you Fo. I know health insurance is expensive for a (self employed or working for co. that doesn't offer coverage) 50 something year old, but there is a big upside. You don't get the tax credits (not welfare handouts) so you must be making at least 48k as an individual or 64k between you and your wife or 97k if it is a family of 4, whichever is the case. That is good, good income in Eastern NC. You have some disposable income to go on golf trips and weekends fishing at Oak Island? or HB? or OIB?. That is pretty sweet! I'd say your glass is at least half full!

You have summed up pretty well the Socialist mentality that propagated this beast. Well done.

I do call total fabrics on this not being a welfare program. I have employees that are getting a far greater amount of insurance subsidy than they pay into taxes. Im sure this is not that unusual.

(07-27-2015 08:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 12:09 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 09:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 09:27 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 08:32 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Unless you are getting the welfare handout on an exchange or are wealthy enough to buy a the Cadillac plan on your own....you are fcked. There are no reasonably priced plans that are not total schit. I spend almost 7 grand a year for such a schitty policy.

If you have a government job?...You better keep it. If your employer pays for your insurance?...you better stay with that company. Do whatever you have to do to NOT have to buy your own insurance.

Oh come on Fo you play golf in Pinehurst, you know you make the big bucks.

On occasion. I went last month with a group of 24. $275 for two nights at Talamore Resort including golf at Talamore and So Pines CC. Not a kings ransom for a weekend.

You know I'm just messing with you Fo. I know health insurance is expensive for a (self employed or working for co. that doesn't offer coverage) 50 something year old, but there is a big upside. You don't get the tax credits (not welfare handouts) so you must be making at least 48k as an individual or 64k between you and your wife or 97k if it is a family of 4, whichever is the case. That is good, good income in Eastern NC. You have some disposable income to go on golf trips and weekends fishing at Oak Island? or HB? or OIB?. That is pretty sweet! I'd say your glass is at least half full!

You have summed up pretty well the Socialist mentality that propagated this beast. Well done.

I do call total fabrics on this not being a welfare program. I have employees that are getting a far greater amount of insurance subsidy than they pay into taxes. Im sure this is not that unusual.

I'm just saying you have been blessed. You own your own business in the greatest country in the world and have a good income to provide for your self and your loved ones.

I don't know what "total fabrics" means? but the subsidy is a tax credit on what someone pays in health insurance premiums, so they are getting back most or some of the cost of those premiums depending on their income.

(07-27-2015 08:56 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 12:09 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 09:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 09:27 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Oh come on Fo you play golf in Pinehurst, you know you make the big bucks.

On occasion. I went last month with a group of 24. $275 for two nights at Talamore Resort including golf at Talamore and So Pines CC. Not a kings ransom for a weekend.

You know I'm just messing with you Fo. I know health insurance is expensive for a (self employed or working for co. that doesn't offer coverage) 50 something year old, but there is a big upside. You don't get the tax credits (not welfare handouts) so you must be making at least 48k as an individual or 64k between you and your wife or 97k if it is a family of 4, whichever is the case. That is good, good income in Eastern NC. You have some disposable income to go on golf trips and weekends fishing at Oak Island? or HB? or OIB?. That is pretty sweet! I'd say your glass is at least half full!

You have summed up pretty well the Socialist mentality that propagated this beast. Well done.

I do call total fabrics on this not being a welfare program. I have employees that are getting a far greater amount of insurance subsidy than they pay into taxes. Im sure this is not that unusual.

I'm just saying you have been blessed. You own your own business in the greatest country in the world and have a good income to provide for your self and your loved ones.

I don't know what "total fabrics" means? but the subsidy is a tax credit on what someone pays in health insurance premiums, so they are getting back most or some of the cost of those premiums depending on their income.

If you receive more money for that "credit" than your entire tax bill?..its welfare. We can package it with pretty words to make ourselves feel better..but..it just another wealth redistribution program like the earned income tax credit.

(07-28-2015 05:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:56 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 12:09 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 09:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  On occasion. I went last month with a group of 24. $275 for two nights at Talamore Resort including golf at Talamore and So Pines CC. Not a kings ransom for a weekend.

You know I'm just messing with you Fo. I know health insurance is expensive for a (self employed or working for co. that doesn't offer coverage) 50 something year old, but there is a big upside. You don't get the tax credits (not welfare handouts) so you must be making at least 48k as an individual or 64k between you and your wife or 97k if it is a family of 4, whichever is the case. That is good, good income in Eastern NC. You have some disposable income to go on golf trips and weekends fishing at Oak Island? or HB? or OIB?. That is pretty sweet! I'd say your glass is at least half full!

You have summed up pretty well the Socialist mentality that propagated this beast. Well done.

I do call total fabrics on this not being a welfare program. I have employees that are getting a far greater amount of insurance subsidy than they pay into taxes. Im sure this is not that unusual.

I'm just saying you have been blessed. You own your own business in the greatest country in the world and have a good income to provide for your self and your loved ones.

I don't know what "total fabrics" means? but the subsidy is a tax credit on what someone pays in health insurance premiums, so they are getting back most or some of the cost of those premiums depending on their income.

If you receive more money for that "credit" than your entire tax bill?..its welfare. We can package it with pretty words to make ourselves feel better..but..it just another wealth redistribution program like the earned income tax credit.

And we get to the real issueI right there.

(07-28-2015 05:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:56 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 12:09 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 09:42 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  On occasion. I went last month with a group of 24. $275 for two nights at Talamore Resort including golf at Talamore and So Pines CC. Not a kings ransom for a weekend.

You know I'm just messing with you Fo. I know health insurance is expensive for a (self employed or working for co. that doesn't offer coverage) 50 something year old, but there is a big upside. You don't get the tax credits (not welfare handouts) so you must be making at least 48k as an individual or 64k between you and your wife or 97k if it is a family of 4, whichever is the case. That is good, good income in Eastern NC. You have some disposable income to go on golf trips and weekends fishing at Oak Island? or HB? or OIB?. That is pretty sweet! I'd say your glass is at least half full!

You have summed up pretty well the Socialist mentality that propagated this beast. Well done.

I do call total fabrics on this not being a welfare program. I have employees that are getting a far greater amount of insurance subsidy than they pay into taxes. Im sure this is not that unusual.

I'm just saying you have been blessed. You own your own business in the greatest country in the world and have a good income to provide for your self and your loved ones.

I don't know what "total fabrics" means? but the subsidy is a tax credit on what someone pays in health insurance premiums, so they are getting back most or some of the cost of those premiums depending on their income.

If you receive more money for that "credit" than your entire tax bill?..its welfare. We can package it with pretty words to make ourselves feel better..but..it just another wealth redistribution program like the earned income tax credit.

Wouldn't all tax breaks be wealth redistribution? Do you deduct your mortgage interest from your tax liability? What about depreciation write offs for a business? EITC is a good program that helps the working poor, like young military families in NC so I'm in support of it as well.

It this where you advocate for a flat tax?

(07-28-2015 09:13 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 05:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:56 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-16-2015 12:09 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  You know I'm just messing with you Fo. I know health insurance is expensive for a (self employed or working for co. that doesn't offer coverage) 50 something year old, but there is a big upside. You don't get the tax credits (not welfare handouts) so you must be making at least 48k as an individual or 64k between you and your wife or 97k if it is a family of 4, whichever is the case. That is good, good income in Eastern NC. You have some disposable income to go on golf trips and weekends fishing at Oak Island? or HB? or OIB?. That is pretty sweet! I'd say your glass is at least half full!

You have summed up pretty well the Socialist mentality that propagated this beast. Well done.

I do call total fabrics on this not being a welfare program. I have employees that are getting a far greater amount of insurance subsidy than they pay into taxes. Im sure this is not that unusual.

I'm just saying you have been blessed. You own your own business in the greatest country in the world and have a good income to provide for your self and your loved ones.

I don't know what "total fabrics" means? but the subsidy is a tax credit on what someone pays in health insurance premiums, so they are getting back most or some of the cost of those premiums depending on their income.

If you receive more money for that "credit" than your entire tax bill?..its welfare. We can package it with pretty words to make ourselves feel better..but..it just another wealth redistribution program like the earned income tax credit.

Wouldn't all tax breaks be wealth redistribution? Do you deduct your mortgage interest from your tax liability? What about depreciation write offs for a business? EITC is a good program that helps the working poor, like young military families in NC so I'm in support of it as well.

It this where you advocate for a flat tax?

If someone receives more benefits than the taxes they paid in?...that amount is a handout. Last time I looked...I payed plenty even after the deductions.

No. HR 25...and I am against ALL tax breaks across the board under that paradigm.

(07-28-2015 11:37 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 09:13 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 05:40 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:56 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-27-2015 08:02 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  You have summed up pretty well the Socialist mentality that propagated this beast. Well done.

I do call total fabrics on this not being a welfare program. I have employees that are getting a far greater amount of insurance subsidy than they pay into taxes. Im sure this is not that unusual.

I'm just saying you have been blessed. You own your own business in the greatest country in the world and have a good income to provide for your self and your loved ones.

I don't know what "total fabrics" means? but the subsidy is a tax credit on what someone pays in health insurance premiums, so they are getting back most or some of the cost of those premiums depending on their income.

If you receive more money for that "credit" than your entire tax bill?..its welfare. We can package it with pretty words to make ourselves feel better..but..it just another wealth redistribution program like the earned income tax credit.

Wouldn't all tax breaks be wealth redistribution? Do you deduct your mortgage interest from your tax liability? What about depreciation write offs for a business? EITC is a good program that helps the working poor, like young military families in NC so I'm in support of it as well.

It this where you advocate for a flat tax?

If someone receives more benefits than the taxes they paid in?...that amount is a handout. Last time I looked...I payed plenty even after the deductions.

No. HR 25...and I am against ALL tax breaks across the board under that paradigm.

Again, wouldn't all tax breaks, credits, deductions, write offs etc etc be wealth redistribution? I don't know what HR 25 or total fabrics means?

I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

Confirmed Exchange QHPs: 12,101,891 as of 7/29/15
Estimated: 13.00M (9.88M via HCgov) as of 7/29/15
Estimated ACA-Enabled Policy Enrollment: 32.1M
(10.4M Paid/Effectuated Exchange QHPs, 7.0M OFF-Exchange QHPs, 200K SHOP, 14.5M Medicaid/CHIP)

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

I don't know where to start in addressing the mischaracterization and untruth of that statement.

(07-30-2015 05:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

I don't know where to start in addressing the mischaracterization and untruth of that statement.

Doesn't it call for everybody to get a check?

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

You are aware that the "wealthy" pay a higher share of the tax burden here than anywhere else, right? And you are aware that the country with the most "progressive" tax system in the developed world is also the one with the most unequal dispersion of income and wealth, right? And you are aware that the "European socialist" countries rely on just such "regressive" taxes for 40% of their tax revenues, right? And you are aware that international tariff and trade agreements to which we are signatories allow such consumption taxes to be charged on imports and debated on exports, right? And you understand that these are significant factors in the movement of investment and jobs overseas, leading to reductions in our middle class, right? And just to be clear, I'm not talking about China in that last point, I'm talking about places like Germany with wages and regulations very close to ours

(07-30-2015 08:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

You are aware that the "wealthy" pay a higher share of the tax burden here than anywhere else, right? And you are aware that the country with the most "progressive" tax system in the developed world is also the one with the most unequal dispersion of income and wealth, right? And you are aware that the "European socialist" countries rely on just such "regressive" taxes for 40% of their tax revenues, right? And you are aware that international tariff and trade agreements to which we are signatories allow such consumption taxes to be charged on imports and debated on exports, right? And you understand that these are significant factors in the movement of investment and jobs overseas, leading to reductions in our middle class, right? And just to be clear, I'm not talking about China in that last point, I'm talking about places like Germany with wages and regulations very close to ours

Just add this to the list of things that dawg THINKS he understands but doesn't.

Hey Dawg,

You realize of course that the average tax rate the wealthy pay in this country right now is less than 15%, right? And THAT is only on the money that they keep here. Under these proposals, their rate is far closer to 25%, and they are encouraged to keep MORE of their money here.... which creates more jobs here... and increases the revenue collected here.

So you'd rather they pay 15% of 'x' then 25% of 125+%(x) right? Good math.

And we wonder why the wealth gap is exploding under a Democratic president who has made it a focus.

(07-30-2015 08:18 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 05:36 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

I don't know where to start in addressing the mischaracterization and untruth of that statement.

Doesn't it call for everybody to get a check?

Yes...a prebate for your tax burden up to the poverty line. It would in fact totally untax the poor with this function. It also does not tax used goods which also benefit the poor. Admittedly the prebate is my least favorite part of HR25. As a whole though it revenue neutral. It would though drag in tons of cash from black market sales, criminal enterprises, illegal aliens and foreigners. You buy new goods?...you pay.

(07-30-2015 10:24 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 08:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

You are aware that the "wealthy" pay a higher share of the tax burden here than anywhere else, right? And you are aware that the country with the most "progressive" tax system in the developed world is also the one with the most unequal dispersion of income and wealth, right? And you are aware that the "European socialist" countries rely on just such "regressive" taxes for 40% of their tax revenues, right? And you are aware that international tariff and trade agreements to which we are signatories allow such consumption taxes to be charged on imports and debated on exports, right? And you understand that these are significant factors in the movement of investment and jobs overseas, leading to reductions in our middle class, right? And just to be clear, I'm not talking about China in that last point, I'm talking about places like Germany with wages and regulations very close to ours

Just add this to the list of things that dawg THINKS he understands but doesn't.

Hey Dawg,

You realize of course that the average tax rate the wealthy pay in this country right now is less than 15%, right? And THAT is only on the money that they keep here. Under these proposals, their rate is far closer to 25%, and they are encouraged to keep MORE of their money here.... which creates more jobs here... and increases the revenue collected here.

So you'd rather they pay 15% of 'x' then 25% of 125+%(x) right? Good math.

And we wonder why the wealth gap is exploding under a Democratic president who has made it a focus.

Care to define "wealthy" and cite your source for this claim? Or should I send that in a PM?

(07-30-2015 10:24 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 08:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

You are aware that the "wealthy" pay a higher share of the tax burden here than anywhere else, right? And you are aware that the country with the most "progressive" tax system in the developed world is also the one with the most unequal dispersion of income and wealth, right? And you are aware that the "European socialist" countries rely on just such "regressive" taxes for 40% of their tax revenues, right? And you are aware that international tariff and trade agreements to which we are signatories allow such consumption taxes to be charged on imports and debated on exports, right? And you understand that these are significant factors in the movement of investment and jobs overseas, leading to reductions in our middle class, right? And just to be clear, I'm not talking about China in that last point, I'm talking about places like Germany with wages and regulations very close to ours

Just add this to the list of things that dawg THINKS he understands but doesn't.

Hey Dawg,

You realize of course that the average tax rate the wealthy pay in this country right now is less than 15%, right? And THAT is only on the money that they keep here. Under these proposals, their rate is far closer to 25%, and they are encouraged to keep MORE of their money here.... which creates more jobs here... and increases the revenue collected here.

So you'd rather they pay 15% of 'x' then 25% of 125+%(x) right? Good math.

And we wonder why the wealth gap is exploding under a Democratic president who has made it a focus.

If somehow the rich suddenly stopped spending money on new goods HR25 would be a disaster. Does anyone think that would happen?

(07-30-2015 11:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 10:24 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-30-2015 08:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 12:28 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I got you, HR 25 is the fair tax act. Wealthy pay little and the middle class pay even more. Also the largest entitlement program in the nation's history, welfare checks for everybody. No thanks.

You are aware that the "wealthy" pay a higher share of the tax burden here than anywhere else, right? And you are aware that the country with the most "progressive" tax system in the developed world is also the one with the most unequal dispersion of income and wealth, right? And you are aware that the "European socialist" countries rely on just such "regressive" taxes for 40% of their tax revenues, right? And you are aware that international tariff and trade agreements to which we are signatories allow such consumption taxes to be charged on imports and debated on exports, right? And you understand that these are significant factors in the movement of investment and jobs overseas, leading to reductions in our middle class, right? And just to be clear, I'm not talking about China in that last point, I'm talking about places like Germany with wages and regulations very close to ours

Just add this to the list of things that dawg THINKS he understands but doesn't.

Hey Dawg,

You realize of course that the average tax rate the wealthy pay in this country right now is less than 15%, right? And THAT is only on the money that they keep here. Under these proposals, their rate is far closer to 25%, and they are encouraged to keep MORE of their money here.... which creates more jobs here... and increases the revenue collected here.

So you'd rather they pay 15% of 'x' then 25% of 125+%(x) right? Good math.

And we wonder why the wealth gap is exploding under a Democratic president who has made it a focus.

Care to define "wealthy" and cite your source for this claim? Or should I send that in a PM?

I think he is referring to the amount of tax deductions the rich are able to take advantage of. I imagine the actual amount of tax is close that figure after they file returns. HR25 would eliminate ALL of this. No more deductions...no more filing.

IMO the best part of HR25 is the elimination of embedded taxes in goods. In case we have forgotten...only individuals pay taxes anyway. Taxes are simply a part of overhead in business and are included in the price of goods and services.

(07-30-2015 11:32 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Care to define "wealthy" and cite your source for this claim? Or should I send that in a PM?

I'll let you define wealthy as you see fit, and while it may change the rate depending on how you do so, every one of those rates is below 25%

As for citation, it's a simple google process and pretty widely known... as I recall much was made about how Buffet's Secretary pays a higher rate than he does, and Romney as I recall paid about 17% (off the top of my head), but I'll help you since you need it...

http://www.irs.gov/PUP/taxstats/products...income.pdf

If that is too complicated for you (and I suspect it is), you can look at links like this

which quote different numbers, but the same net effect. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonk...-for-real/

Never do they pay 25%, and as they get more wealthy, the rate actually goes down.

Of course, this is 'as a percentage of AGI' and it is precisely all of those 'adjustments' that are the issue. (17.6% of agi = <15% of GI if you bother to do the math yourself)

The more you earn, the more likely you have more adjustments.... that's where I get my figures from, but I'm not going to bother showing you my work since you don't trust me... so I'll let you peruse the IRS data yourself.

I hope that helps you, Tom.