(07-05-2015 10:23 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-04-2015 10:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Some people are better off. Some people are worse off. So far, it's a zero-sum game. The issue will be whether it can remain a zero-sum game once IPAB and HCC and CCO are fully operational.

Its not nor ever will be a zero sum game.

Some people are better off. More people are worse off. That is not zero sum.

You can never have government make a change, inject itself, and have a result of zero sum. More people wlil always be worse off.

Agree, but I was trying to be nice.

(07-05-2015 12:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-05-2015 10:23 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-04-2015 10:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Some people are better off. Some people are worse off. So far, it's a zero-sum game. The issue will be whether it can remain a zero-sum game once IPAB and HCC and CCO are fully operational.

Its not nor ever will be a zero sum game.

Some people are better off. More people are worse off. That is not zero sum.

You can never have government make a change, inject itself, and have a result of zero sum. More people wlil always be worse off.

Agree, but I was trying to be nice.

I know, I've just seen a lot of people refer to the zero-sum game. Under the most ideal of situations in theory, the best it could be is zero-sum. With the government involved, it will never be zero sum. With the government injecting itself as part of the solution, it can never get close.

Gallup's newest poll is out with some interesting findings.

1. The uninsured rate is down to 11.4% for adults. That compares to 18% in Otober of 2013 and is the lowest since they started this particular survey in 2008.
2. That is a 36.7% drop since October 2013.
3. The uninsured rate dropped by another 1.2 million people in the second quarter of 2015...not including the 2nd Open Enrollment Period enrollees.
4. There's about 320 million people in the U.S., of which around 245.4 million are adults. 11.4% of that is roughly 28 million people.
5. There are about 5 million uninsured under the age of 18.
6. There are about 33 million uninsured in the USA.
7. About 3.7 million of the uninsured would be eligible for Medicaid if those states that didn't expand Medicaid expanded.
8. About 6.5 million of the uninsured are undocumented (illegal) immigrants that do not qualify for the ACA.
9. There are about 23 million uninsured that are "realistically insurable".
10. Of those 23 million or so, around 17.7 million are eligible for coverage via the ACA exchanges, while the remaining 5.6 million are a combination of those still eligible for Medicaid expansion, those eligible for "traditional" Medicaid and a mish-mash of "other" (including rounding errors and/or overlaps in some of the other categories).

(07-11-2015 09:54 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Gallup's newest poll is out with some interesting findings.

1. The uninsured rate is down to 11.4% for adults. That compares to 18% in Otober of 2013 and is the lowest since they started this particular survey in 2008.

Incorrect. The number of uninsured prior to Obamacare taking effect was 13.4%.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/census...le/2553446

Quote:2. That is a 36.7% drop since October 2013.

No, its a sh!tty 17% drop.

Quote:3. The uninsured rate dropped by another 1.2 million people in the second quarter
of 2015...not including the 2nd Open Enrollment Period enrollees.

I have seen no audited numbers to back this up. I'm unsure how the number can drop after the enrollment period is over, and when people are dropping off the rolls for non-payment.

Quote:6. There are about 33 million uninsured in the USA.

Which means the sh!t for brains law cause more people who had insurance to lose it and have to scramble to get it again than it net gained.

Quote:7. About 3.7 million of the uninsured would be eligible for Medicaid if those states that didn't expand Medicaid expanded.

The blame for that lies squarely with Obamacare.

(07-11-2015 11:43 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-11-2015 09:54 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Gallup's newest poll is out with some interesting findings.

1. The uninsured rate is down to 11.4% for adults. That compares to 18% in Otober of 2013 and is the lowest since they started this particular survey in 2008.

Incorrect. The number of uninsured prior to Obamacare taking effect was 13.4%.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/census...le/2553446

Quote:2. That is a 36.7% drop since October 2013.

No, its a sh!tty 17% drop.

Quote:3. The uninsured rate dropped by another 1.2 million people in the second quarter
of 2015...not including the 2nd Open Enrollment Period enrollees.

I have seen no audited numbers to back this up. I'm unsure how the number can drop after the enrollment period is over, and when people are dropping off the rolls for non-payment.

Quote:6. There are about 33 million uninsured in the USA.

Which means the sh!t for brains law cause more people who had insurance to lose it and have to scramble to get it again than it net gained.

Quote:7. About 3.7 million of the uninsured would be eligible for Medicaid if those states that didn't expand Medicaid expanded.

The blame for that lies squarely with Obamacare.

1. "The Census number is typically the most widely-cited statistic on the number of uninsured in the U.S., but for 2013, the Bureau changed its methodology and questions in the survey, so the report cautioned against comparing the 2013 number to prior years".
2. Using those same Census #'s. Btw, 17% is still a pretty impressive drop.

3. First of all, more and more people are getting jobs and a number of those are going to work at jobs insurance is offered. Also, there is no stopping people from getting insurance after the enrollment period.

6. Not going to do the math now(1 a.m.) but I would like to see the figures and how you got the(census data again?)

7. How is it the fault of Obamacare that(mostly) red states turned down the Medicaid expansion out of protest of Obama and the ACA?

(07-12-2015 01:09 AM)RobertN Wrote:  1. "The Census number is typically the most widely-cited statistic on the number of uninsured in the U.S., but for 2013, the Bureau changed its methodology and questions in the survey, so the report cautioned against comparing the 2013 number to prior years".

Yes, you cant compare it to previous years, but it was used as the baseline going forward. When you say "how much has it dropped" you have to use THIS number and the current numbers. You cant pull a new 2013 number of out of your ass.

Quote:2. Using those same Census #'s. Btw, 17% is still a pretty impressive drop.

Not for the damage it did. Not for being in a death spiral.

Quote:3. First of all, more and more people are getting jobs and a number of those are going to work at jobs insurance is offered. Also, there is no stopping people from getting insurance after the enrollment period.

Which had nothing to do with the ACA. If more and more people are getting jobs with insurance, they would have received insurance at those jobs without the ACA.

Quote:6. Not going to do the math now(1 a.m.) but I would like to see the figures and how you got the(census data again?)

No math required. Its on the first page prior to the report.

Quote:7. How is it the fault of Obamacare that(mostly) red states turned down the Medicaid expansion out of protest of Obama and the ACA?

OBlundersh!t needed to pass off medicaid expenses to the states. They dangled a carrot in front of them to get them to do it. The smart states didnt take the bait. The dumb states are already seeing impending budget doom. It was the way the law was written that has caused this. If there wasnt this issue prior to the law, and now we have this issue, the issue is due to the law, NOT because republicans didnt change their state laws to accomdate OBlundershit.

(07-11-2015 11:43 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-11-2015 09:54 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Gallup's newest poll is out with some interesting findings.

1. The uninsured rate is down to 11.4% for adults. That compares to 18% in Otober of 2013 and is the lowest since they started this particular survey in 2008.

Incorrect. The number of uninsured prior to Obamacare taking effect was 13.4%.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/census...le/2553446

Quote:2. That is a 36.7% drop since October 2013.

No, its a sh!tty 17% drop.

Quote:3. The uninsured rate dropped by another 1.2 million people in the second quarter
of 2015...not including the 2nd Open Enrollment Period enrollees.

I have seen no audited numbers to back this up. I'm unsure how the number can drop after the enrollment period is over, and when people are dropping off the rolls for non-payment.

Quote:6. There are about 33 million uninsured in the USA.

Which means the sh!t for brains law cause more people who had insurance to lose it and have to scramble to get it again than it net gained.

Quote:7. About 3.7 million of the uninsured would be eligible for Medicaid if those states that didn't expand Medicaid expanded.

The blame for that lies squarely with Obamacare.

Oh UofM, bless your heart.

1. The Gallop survey clearly established an uninsured rate beginning in 2008 and used the same criteria in each survey since then. You can't mix and match.
3. You need to open your mind up to all the ways the insured numbers could increase in the 2nd quarter, or you should at least research it a bit.
6. Your response is nonsensical.
7. See #6

(07-12-2015 07:45 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Oh UofM, bless your heart.

1. The Gallop survey clearly established an uninsured rate beginning in 2008 and used the same criteria in each survey since then. You can't mix and match.
3. You need to open your mind up to all the ways the insured numbers could increase in the 2nd quarter, or you should at least research it a bit.
6. Your response is nonsensical.
7. See #6

And here comes the butthurt Dawg not like getting called out again. I know you dont like using that 2013 census data, but it is what it is. It sucks. Yet again it sucks. But hold tightly to your little "poll". I mean, why use real data when we can use guestimates that look better.

Also, if you look at the historical polls, the uninsured rate under Obama sky-rocketed, and only came down when the population was FORCED BY LAW to buy this sh!tty stuff being pawned as insurance. (And even more laughable, being pawned off as "care")

Now, check this out. You know your little gallup poll? You know what it shows? It shows that this dipsh!t administration and dumbf*ck law hsa reduced the uninsured rate by only ONE PERCENT since Bush was in office.

Check it out:





And there you go. You libtards have screwed up the entire healthcare system, so that 1 percent more of the population has insurance, and a big chunk of the population now has sh!tty insurance, than before Obama took office.


The STUPIDITY OF THE AMERICAN VOTER.

(07-12-2015 08:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 07:45 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Oh UofM, bless your heart.

1. The Gallop survey clearly established an uninsured rate beginning in 2008 and used the same criteria in each survey since then. You can't mix and match.
3. You need to open your mind up to all the ways the insured numbers could increase in the 2nd quarter, or you should at least research it a bit.
6. Your response is nonsensical.
7. See #6

And here comes the butthurt Dawg not like getting called out again. I know you dont like using that 2013 census data, but it is what it is. It sucks. Yet again it sucks. But hold tightly to your little "poll". I mean, why use real data when we can use guestimates that look better.

Also, if you look at the historical polls, the uninsured rate under Obama sky-rocketed, and only came down when the population was FORCED BY LAW to buy this sh!tty stuff being pawned as insurance. (And even more laughable, being pawned off as "care")

Now, check this out. You know your little gallup poll? You know what it shows? It shows that this dipsh!t administration and dumbf*ck law hsa reduced the uninsured rate by only ONE PERCENT since Bush was in office.

Check it out:





And there you go. You libtards have screwed up the entire healthcare system, so that 1 percent more of the population has insurance, and a big chunk of the population now has sh!tty insurance, than before Obama took office.


The STUPIDITY OF THE AMERICAN VOTER.

Silly, Angry UofM

(07-12-2015 08:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 08:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 07:45 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Oh UofM, bless your heart.

1. The Gallop survey clearly established an uninsured rate beginning in 2008 and used the same criteria in each survey since then. You can't mix and match.
3. You need to open your mind up to all the ways the insured numbers could increase in the 2nd quarter, or you should at least research it a bit.
6. Your response is nonsensical.
7. See #6

And here comes the butthurt Dawg not like getting called out again. I know you dont like using that 2013 census data, but it is what it is. It sucks. Yet again it sucks. But hold tightly to your little "poll". I mean, why use real data when we can use guestimates that look better.

Also, if you look at the historical polls, the uninsured rate under Obama sky-rocketed, and only came down when the population was FORCED BY LAW to buy this sh!tty stuff being pawned as insurance. (And even more laughable, being pawned off as "care")

Now, check this out. You know your little gallup poll? You know what it shows? It shows that this dipsh!t administration and dumbf*ck law hsa reduced the uninsured rate by only ONE PERCENT since Bush was in office.

Check it out:





And there you go. You libtards have screwed up the entire healthcare system, so that 1 percent more of the population has insurance, and a big chunk of the population now has sh!tty insurance, than before Obama took office.


The STUPIDITY OF THE AMERICAN VOTER.

Silly, Angry UofM

Still butthurt Dawg?

Hey, it still sucks. Its in a death spiral and wont get any better.

Keep on being a Gruber.

(07-04-2015 09:17 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-04-2015 08:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 02:25 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Confirmed Exchange QHPs: 12,024,658 as of 7/03/15
Estimated: 12.80M (9.71M via HCgov) as of 7/03/15
Estimated ACA-Enabled Policy Enrollment: 32.7M
(10.3M Paid/Effectuated Exchange QHPs, 8.2M OFF-Exchange QHPs, 180K SHOP, 14.0M Medicaid/CHIP)

When are you going to post numbers for how many of those are crap policies, essentially worthless, and how many of them actually provide access to real health CARE?

If I'm not mistaken about 68% buy Silver Plans. Those certainly aren't crap policies. Bronze policies could probably be classified as crap policies.

Unless you are getting the welfare handout on an exchange or are wealthy enough to buy a the Cadillac plan on your own....you are fcked. There are no reasonably priced plans that are not total schit. I spend almost 7 grand a year for such a schitty policy.

If you have a government job?...You better keep it. If your employer pays for your insurance?...you better stay with that company. Do whatever you have to do to NOT have to buy your own insurance.

(07-12-2015 08:32 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(07-04-2015 09:17 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-04-2015 08:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 02:25 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Confirmed Exchange QHPs: 12,024,658 as of 7/03/15
Estimated: 12.80M (9.71M via HCgov) as of 7/03/15
Estimated ACA-Enabled Policy Enrollment: 32.7M
(10.3M Paid/Effectuated Exchange QHPs, 8.2M OFF-Exchange QHPs, 180K SHOP, 14.0M Medicaid/CHIP)

When are you going to post numbers for how many of those are crap policies, essentially worthless, and how many of them actually provide access to real health CARE?

If I'm not mistaken about 68% buy Silver Plans. Those certainly aren't crap policies. Bronze policies could probably be classified as crap policies.

Unless you are getting the welfare handout on an exchange or are wealthy enough to buy a the Cadillac plan on your own....you are fcked. There are no reasonably priced plans that are not total schit. I spend almost 7 grand a year for such a schitty policy.

If you have a government job?...You better keep it. If your employer pays for your insurance?...you better stay with that company. Do whatever you have to do to NOT have to buy your own insurance.

Oh come on Fo you play golf in Pinehurst, you know you make the big bucks.

Confirmed Exchange QHPs: 12,029,748 as of 7/12/15
Estimated: 12.87M (9.78M via HCgov) as of 7/12/15
Estimated ACA-Enabled Policy Enrollment: 32.9M
(10.3M Paid/Effectuated Exchange QHPs, 8.2M OFF-Exchange QHPs, 180K SHOP, 14.2M Medicaid/CHIP)

death spiral

(06-25-2015 10:51 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I'd just like to say I'm part of the enrolled ACA numbers. Not because it was my preference mind you.

CIGNA was my provider before the ACA. They jacked my rate over 50% in just 4 years until they did the unthinkable -- and made the actual exchange itself cheaper.

So in additional to the typical government number fudging BS we should take into account (an account at healthcare.gov =/= ACA plan signup, etc) ... let's consider the not-so-easy to quantify group that I fall into. I am at the very center of the Venn Diagram of groups f*cked over by ObamaCare:

- White
- Male
- Under 35
- Self-Employed
- Buying on the market for just myself

All of the insurers, AFTER the ACA passed, sent their rates through the roof or left the SC individual market entirely. I was literally left with join the exchange or pay 150% the premium price alone with TRIPLE the deductible for the one or two people left in the market. If you call that a victory for insurance and enrollment numbers in the ACA, please consider not procreating for the benefit of all of society.

Figured this post would be quietly ignored by those wanting to self-medicate over enrollment numbers.

Charles Gaba attempted to break down the numbers of the 33 million still uninsured. Here are his estimates.

6.5 million: Undocumented Immigrants
3.7 million: Medicaid Gap
3.5 million: Eligible for Medicaid/CHIP
7.9 million: Between 100-400% FPL (tax credits)
8.6 million: Over 400% FPL

(07-14-2015 05:08 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Charles Gaba attempted to break down the numbers of the 33 million still uninsured. Here are his estimates.

6.5 million: Undocumented Immigrants
3.7 million: Medicaid Gap
3.5 million: Eligible for Medicaid/CHIP
7.9 million: Between 100-400% FPL (tax credits)
8.6 million: Over 400% FPL

Explain how this number is 6.5million, when the number of illegal aliens is MUCH more than that?

Hey dawg, tried to apply today since im in a new job without insurance and was prompted on healthcare.gov to apply for Medicaid since i didnt have a qualifying life event to purchase outside the enrollment period. This is the main website that knows I'm a 34 year old, non disabled white male. It told me i wasn't eligible foe Medicaid but should apply anyway to see about a waiver. Ill try to take a picture of the screen tomorrow if i have time to log back on. I can apply for an exemption to get insurance though the exchange even though i don't qualify for a life changing event, but have to print and fill out a paper application to mail in.

(07-14-2015 05:23 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 05:08 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Charles Gaba attempted to break down the numbers of the 33 million still uninsured. Here are his estimates.

6.5 million: Undocumented Immigrants
3.7 million: Medicaid Gap
3.5 million: Eligible for Medicaid/CHIP
7.9 million: Between 100-400% FPL (tax credits)
8.6 million: Over 400% FPL

Explain how this number is 6.5million, when the number of illegal aliens is MUCH more than that?

Don't let the drag you into the minutia. The numbers of illegals are estimates and so is all this. Whether it is 6.5 or 20 depends on lots of other issues.

What this shows me is that there are millions of people who won't take insurance even if it is free... and that the government is SO concerned about the 3.7mm in the medicaid gap, but doesn't seem terribly concerned about the similar number of people who qualify for medicaid but don't take it, or the similar number of people who qualify for 'fully subsidized' policies but don't take them... much less the +/- 12mm or so who in the opinion of the government could and would have to foot all or most of the bill themselves and they simply decline. The obvious reason is that there is little political advantage to 'beating up' on people who choose not to sign up, but lots of advantage to be made from assuming that all or even most of those in the gap aren't in there by some choice.

The fact is that there is a decent portion of the population that isn't interested in healthcare, even if it is free. When you look at medicaid, MOST states exclude single, generally healthy people... and this is precisely the group that many studies says seems to be resistant to sign up.

(07-14-2015 05:23 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 05:08 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Charles Gaba attempted to break down the numbers of the 33 million still uninsured. Here are his estimates.

6.5 million: Undocumented Immigrants
3.7 million: Medicaid Gap
3.5 million: Eligible for Medicaid/CHIP
7.9 million: Between 100-400% FPL (tax credits)
8.6 million: Over 400% FPL

Explain how this number is 6.5million, when the number of illegal aliens is MUCH more than that?

I'll ask Gaba.