(04-08-2015 04:33 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:27 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

I don't think anyone is saying that. HOWEVER, resisting arrest or assaulting an officer is sure-fire way to escalate an incident and lead to an officer needing to make quick decisions of life and death. If you just go along with the program, the worst thing that can happen is that you get arrested. If you resist arrest or assault an officer, then officers are wondering why and being extra cautious about any extra movements you make. That's usually how these shooting happen.

I'll break it down like this. It appears one person committed a misdemeanor by resisting arrest and possibly a lower-level felony if his actions rose to the level of assaulting an officer. It appears the other person might have committed manslaughter or murder and we know he shot a human 8 times in the back. Yet, some are choosing to focus on the actions of the former and not the latter. I find that to be an absurd approach.


If we were playing basketball and you fouled me hard and then I pulled out a gun and shot you, would you think people should focus on my act or focus on saying "well, if you think about it, had that guy Pharaoh not fouled him, he wouldn't have gotten shot." That would be a technically true statement but utterly ridiculous to focus on in that situation.

Oh, by every appearance - this cop went far beyond the level of force necessary and I hope that if so, he is charged and convicted.

However, a cops job can be very dangerous by it's very nature - and he has a gun on his person. This man knew that, yet somehow got it in his head that "Ok, I'll just do the opposite of what the cop says and run - that's the plan. Just run - I'm sure I'll get away."

The running doesn't make getting shot okay, but why take that chance?

What possesses people in these situations to think "Nah, I don't have to do what this guy with a gun says. Nope, gonna do what I want - screw him".

A lot of people have more dangerous jobs than police officers. It might not be a popular sentiment, but it's true.

(04-08-2015 04:46 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  A lot of people have more dangerous jobs than police officers. It might not be a popular sentiment, but it's true.

For somebody that keeps chirping about relevance, this is a strange thing to try and add to the discussion.

(04-08-2015 04:50 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:46 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  A lot of people have more dangerous jobs than police officers. It might not be a popular sentiment, but it's true.

For somebody that keeps chirping about relevance, this is a strange thing to try and add to the discussion.

It's relevant when the defense of a police officers action is the 'dangerous nature of their job'.

(04-08-2015 04:46 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  A lot of people have more dangerous jobs than police officers. It might not be a popular sentiment, but it's true.

What vocations have greater chances of getting shot than cops? I mean - generally that is what we're talking about.

I guess those guys that walk on the beams of tall buildings being built are likely more dangerous, but not of getting shot by someone else in a confrontation.

(04-08-2015 03:27 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

That is one wonderful straw man you have constructed there and has exactly NO resemblance to anything I said. I never claimed any of this schit was justified, and if he is taken to trial, convicted, then lock his asss up good.

What I was responding to was your initial ridiculous "point" that

Quote:Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America

. No kidding, anyone knows that. But why chance it? That's essentially my point and apparently we agree.

Problem is, there are plenty of people out there itching for a fight or confrontation, or unwilling to comply with lawful order. They unnecessarily escalate the situation.


Public "figures" leading marches chanting things like "What do we want? Dead cops!" When do we want them? Now!" Doesn't help either.

(04-08-2015 04:46 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  A lot of people have more dangerous jobs than police officers. It might not be a popular sentiment, but it's true.

30 years ago and fresh out of college, I worked for a bank. I was a collector on bad mobile home loans. I would go to the homes of people who were unemployed. Most of them had not made a payment on the home in over a year. I'd have to collect the cash or evict them.

I was threatened with a gun multiple times, but I was never shot. All for $16,000 a year.

(04-08-2015 04:51 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:50 PM)ODUgradstudent Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:46 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  A lot of people have more dangerous jobs than police officers. It might not be a popular sentiment, but it's true.

For somebody that keeps chirping about relevance, this is a strange thing to try and add to the discussion.

It's relevant when the defense of a police officers action is the 'dangerous nature of their job'.

I'm not saying that it's not relevant but you've repeatedly said that disobeying police orders and running from a cop isn't on topic, but now you're saying that policing not being as dangerous as a bullet proof vest tester is pertinent?

Running from a cop and lunging for a cop's weapon and then running are two different things.

(04-08-2015 04:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Running from a cop and lunging for a cop's weapon and then running are two different things.

Absolutely. I just have trouble understanding where either action will leave one better off than just doing what the cop says. One is definitely more dangerous, but both almost without fail lead to a much worse ultimate outcome.

What the hell makes people think - I'll just defy this man with a gun and do what I want!

OT, however another note I hope the Mayor and Police Chief take from this is that that 9mm or .40 pistol round didn't work very well. If the officer had been issued a .45 ACP, one round would have spun him around and he would have dropped due to the force and the slowness of the round. Could have saved Scott's life as well.

It looked as if he was getting stung by a Yellow Jacket!


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Stay in your lane UCF. You're all over. As usual.

One thing in particular during all of this that I didn't understand was the constant interruptions of the Mayor and Police Chief during their press conference today.

I don't understand the logic of acting like that, and then wondering why you don't get respected?

(04-08-2015 05:03 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Running from a cop and lunging for a cop's weapon and then running are two different things.

Absolutely. I just have trouble understanding where either action will leave one better off than just doing what the cop says. One is definitely more dangerous, but both almost without fail lead to a much worse ultimate outcome.

What the hell makes people think - I'll just defy this man with a gun and do what I want!

Okay...I'll try here.

First, many of the people that do this stuff have warrants or they have drugs and/or firearms in their possession. Some of them are on probation/parole and this stop could automatically send them back to jail. So, to many, running is much preferable to spending time in jail and/or prison.

Second, they honestly believe they can get away...or, at least be able to ditch the contraband they possess.

Third, for many of these folks, it is engrained in their psyche to run from the police. It's the wild west when the sheriff rides into the town and the gang quickly leaves...so do these folks.

(04-08-2015 04:33 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:27 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

I don't think anyone is saying that. HOWEVER, resisting arrest or assaulting an officer is sure-fire way to escalate an incident and lead to an officer needing to make quick decisions of life and death. If you just go along with the program, the worst thing that can happen is that you get arrested. If you resist arrest or assault an officer, then officers are wondering why and being extra cautious about any extra movements you make. That's usually how these shooting happen.

I'll break it down like this. It appears one person committed a misdemeanor by resisting arrest and possibly a lower-level felony if his actions rose to the level of assaulting an officer. It appears the other person might have committed manslaughter or murder and we know he shot a human 8 times in the back. Yet, some are choosing to focus on the actions of the former and not the latter. I find that to be an absurd approach.


If we were playing basketball and you fouled me hard and then I pulled out a gun and shot you, would you think people should focus on my act or focus on saying "well, if you think about it, had that guy Pharaoh not fouled him, he wouldn't have gotten shot." That would be a technically true statement but utterly ridiculous to focus on in that situation.

Was the basketball player wearing a gun and badge and a souped up car with pretty lights on top?

What a ridiculous comparison.

(04-08-2015 04:33 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:27 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

I don't think anyone is saying that. HOWEVER, resisting arrest or assaulting an officer is sure-fire way to escalate an incident and lead to an officer needing to make quick decisions of life and death. If you just go along with the program, the worst thing that can happen is that you get arrested. If you resist arrest or assault an officer, then officers are wondering why and being extra cautious about any extra movements you make. That's usually how these shooting happen.

I'll break it down like this. It appears one person committed a misdemeanor by resisting arrest and possibly a lower-level felony if his actions rose to the level of assaulting an officer. It appears the other person might have committed manslaughter or murder and we know he shot a human 8 times in the back. Yet, some are choosing to focus on the actions of the former and not the latter. I find that to be an absurd approach.


If we were playing basketball and you fouled me hard and then I pulled out a gun and shot you, would you think people should focus on my act or focus on saying "well, if you think about it, had that guy Pharaoh not fouled him, he wouldn't have gotten shot." That would be a technically true statement but utterly ridiculous to focus on in that situation.

That is just a silly, asinine comparison and isn't even remotely related to my original statement. It doesn't matter what crime the cops are rightfully (or wrongfully) stopping you for....when you resist and/or assault an officer, you have escalated the situation. Most people run because they have warrants, a gun, drugs, and/or are on parole/probation. Cops know this and it heightens the tension of the detention. You should go read a self-defense statute in your state and then you'll understand why sudden movements (including reaching), given a fleeing suspect can create an unwanted ending.

(04-08-2015 01:07 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:30 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one is arguing that these sorts of things happen, but the facts remain it's not a particularly deadly profession. Especially when one takes deaths due to traffic accidents out of the equation.

By the very nature of the job and the vigilance needed to still alive makes law enforcement dangerous. The question I have is how did the prep get the tazer? Because if there was a confrontation between the two then the idea that he was 'no longer a threat' is off the table.

just on general observation.....he's a pooswha that couldn't handle the situation....

he gets cruxified for being a dumbarse...

that pretty much sums up the D+/C- crew from hs....

who in their capable mind would want to be a piggy?

let's see.....the pay sucks, I can die at any given point, my parents, siblings, and offspring all worry, and divorced wench has the insurance policy......but, I have a gun and I'm bruce....

it's not hard to figure out that mentality.....

you have to be an idiot to not succumb when 'they' fk with ya....

again, having said that, this guy easily fits that profile and is nothing more than a dumbarse with a gun...

the video is just damning....this one I stand pat on.....

(04-08-2015 06:13 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:33 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:27 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

I don't think anyone is saying that. HOWEVER, resisting arrest or assaulting an officer is sure-fire way to escalate an incident and lead to an officer needing to make quick decisions of life and death. If you just go along with the program, the worst thing that can happen is that you get arrested. If you resist arrest or assault an officer, then officers are wondering why and being extra cautious about any extra movements you make. That's usually how these shooting happen.

I'll break it down like this. It appears one person committed a misdemeanor by resisting arrest and possibly a lower-level felony if his actions rose to the level of assaulting an officer. It appears the other person might have committed manslaughter or murder and we know he shot a human 8 times in the back. Yet, some are choosing to focus on the actions of the former and not the latter. I find that to be an absurd approach.


If we were playing basketball and you fouled me hard and then I pulled out a gun and shot you, would you think people should focus on my act or focus on saying "well, if you think about it, had that guy Pharaoh not fouled him, he wouldn't have gotten shot." That would be a technically true statement but utterly ridiculous to focus on in that situation.

That is just a silly, asinine comparison and isn't even remotely related to my original statement. It doesn't matter what crime the cops are rightfully (or wrongfully) stopping you for....when you resist and/or assault an officer, you have escalated the situation. Most people run because they have warrants, a gun, drugs, and/or are on parole/probation. Cops know this and it heightens the tension of the detention. You should go read a self-defense statute in your state and then you'll understand why sudden movements (including reaching), given a fleeing suspect can create an unwanted ending.

please tell me you aren't serious....

I'll wait for you to provide this proof.....

let's review....

taser on the ground...

some type of hand-to-hand had to happen....

cue the vid....

dipshite is running away.....piggy empties the clip.....then calls for backup

why would one not let him flee....call for backup....then apprehend....better yet, use the training he had to receive and subdue WITH PHYSICAL force upon initial confrontation...it's his ****** job to do that....and he signed up for it....

dude is a poos-wa that is going to find out what ass-reaming is like....and he screwed his familia too...

what a fk'n moron.....just like most of the piggies...

(04-08-2015 05:43 PM)CoastGuardHawk06 Wrote:  One thing in particular during all of this that I didn't understand was the constant interruptions of the Mayor and Police Chief during their press conference today.

I don't understand the logic of acting like that, and then wondering why you don't get respected?

everybody is a biatch.....hence the creation of this board....

they are only a different version of the same chapter....

I'm not losing any sleep over this incident. It seems the authorities are handling it well.