While we should wait for the conviction, it looks like murder to me.

SCD?????

Seriously. Pretty sure Fit couldn't waste said student with 8 to the back.

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

(04-08-2015 02:59 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  SCD?????

Seriously. Pretty sure Fit couldn't waste said student with 8 to the back.

Exactly. Just because someone doesn't want to comply doesn't mean they deserve to be shot.

If that was the case, I'd have killed countless kids by now.

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What a weird way to try and justify not addressing the actual discussion.

JMU,

For the most part I agree but even then we have problems. Tamir Rice the 12 year old in Cleveland. Cop rolls up kid has a toy gun in his waist ban. Cop yells "Drop the Gun". Kid has to put his hand on the gun to drop it. Literally in less than 2 seconds the kid is dead. Somehow someway we need to retrain these guys. Too many people are ending up dead when they interact with the police. Lordy Sakes I just can't shake the feeling of how many more there were before cameras became so common on cell phones. It's just too common.

Good now I have two "educators" to ask! You have been assaulted by a 50 year old child. Would you feel like your life were in jeopardy? Yes or No? I am trying to keep this simple.

This is when he fired his weapon SCD, claiming he was being assaulted when he fired the weapon is objectively false. Stop being so painfully idiotic and try to keep the conversation pertinent.

(04-08-2015 03:08 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Good now I have two "educators" to ask! You have been assaulted by a 50 year old child. Would you feel like your life were in jeopardy? Yes or No? I am trying to keep this simple.

Nope

Since when did getting your arse whipped become "fearing for your life"?

You guys are arguing over something that really doesn't matter.

You surround yourselves with children and females all day. I can see how easily you can feel so authoritative. Ha.

You've never thrown a punch or taken one in a real fight I feel certain. And your pansy karate is a clever disguise!

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

(04-08-2015 03:21 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  You surround yourselves with children and females all day. I can see how easily you can feel so authoritative. Ha.

You've never thrown a punch or taken one in a real fight I feel certain. And your pansy karate is a clever disguise!

Tough talk on the internet?

(04-08-2015 03:27 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

I don't think anyone is saying that. HOWEVER, resisting arrest or assaulting an officer is sure-fire way to escalate an incident and lead to an officer needing to make quick decisions of life and death. If you just go along with the program, the worst thing that can happen is that you get arrested. If you resist arrest or assault an officer, then officers are wondering why and being extra cautious about any extra movements you make. That's usually how these shooting happen.

(04-08-2015 03:07 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What a weird way to try and justify not addressing the actual discussion.

Was someone talking to you? Did you bother to *sniff* even read the post to which I was replying before your obligatory snark?

(04-08-2015 03:07 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What a weird way to try and justify not addressing the actual discussion.

JMU is largely correct you know. I absolutely don't think what happened was right, but if the guy stops when the cop says "stop", and get on the ground when the cop says "get on the ground", this man is likely alive today.

I'll never figure out the thought process that goes into, "If I take off running I'll get away and be free". I mean, what about his car? and on and on.

No one is arguing JMU's point though, the discussion isn't about whether or not it's safe to run from the police.

(04-08-2015 04:05 PM)pharaoh0 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:27 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:38 PM)ODU06 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:27 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Scott didn't comply with the Officer. When will these idiots figure it out.

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America. And it is certainly not punishable by death without a trial. So your comment is moot.

In fact, in Virginia, for example, resisting is only a misdemeanor. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504...18.2-479.1 Assaulting an officer is a class 6 felony, which is the lowest class of felony. http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-57.HTM

Certainly does not merit being killed.

It's true that officers have the right to use deadly force in some circumstances, but you didn't address that.

Well, no schit. But i wouldn't imagine this is a risk any sane person would like to force to chance. If a cop tells you to do something, discretion is the better part of valor.

Sure you can challenge them, sure you can scream about "what you rights" are, or what he can and can't do. Go 'head. You may also get a club upside the head or even worse.

Cop says stop. Stop! Pretty simple rule far as I can tell. This guy would probably still be alive. But, you? You do what you want. Hope that works out for you.

What does that have to do with the police officer's actions? Yes the suspect should not have resisted and he likely broke the law by doing so and he should have been arrested and punished in accordance with our laws for doing so. And, yes, if he hadn't done so, he'd still be alive. However, he did resist and, at that point, the officer had a choice of how to respond and responded by shooting the man 8 times in the back. A trial will determine whether that choice was murder but many seem to believe it likely was (absent all the facts).

Like you, I would not resist in that situation. But, unlike you, I don't believe that any resistance entitles the officer to do whatever he wants, including 8 shots to the back. There are times that the officer is justified using such force to stop a fleeing suspect as discussed in this thread but "do everything a cop says or the cop is justified to shoot you" is, in my opinion, a terrible standard for society.

I don't think anyone is saying that. HOWEVER, resisting arrest or assaulting an officer is sure-fire way to escalate an incident and lead to an officer needing to make quick decisions of life and death. If you just go along with the program, the worst thing that can happen is that you get arrested. If you resist arrest or assault an officer, then officers are wondering why and being extra cautious about any extra movements you make. That's usually how these shooting happen.

I'll break it down like this. It appears one person committed a misdemeanor by resisting arrest and possibly a lower-level felony if his actions rose to the level of assaulting an officer. It appears the other person might have committed manslaughter or murder and we know he shot a human 8 times in the back. Yet, some are choosing to focus on the actions of the former and not the latter. I find that to be an absurd approach.


If we were playing basketball and you fouled me hard and then I pulled out a gun and shot you, would you think people should focus on my act or focus on saying "well, if you think about it, had that guy Pharaoh not fouled him, he wouldn't have gotten shot." That would be a technically true statement but utterly ridiculous to focus on in that situation.

(04-08-2015 03:08 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  JMU,

For the most part I agree but even then we have problems. Tamir Rice the 12 year old in Cleveland. Cop rolls up kid has a toy gun in his waist ban. Cop yells "Drop the Gun". Kid has to put his hand on the gun to drop it. Literally in less than 2 seconds the kid is dead. Somehow someway we need to retrain these guys. Too many people are ending up dead when they interact with the police. Lordy Sakes I just can't shake the feeling of how many more there were before cameras became so common on cell phones. It's just too common.

I don't disagree, I had a cop reach for his gun on me when I tripped in my flip flops on a door jamb coming out of my basement apt. You had to step up and duck down beneath the deck over your head at the same time. Nice place... He was a hothead and chasing someone, thought he had something with me, but I was there with about 15 friends at the time. That could have been plenty ugly if I had actually fallen towards him, or taken a few "recovery" steps and run into him.

But the wholesale disrespect for officers and positions of authority in general bears some measure of responsibility in this stuff as well. There is an entire breakdown of societal norms in certain areas and the cops are put into more of a crime solvers role than crime prevention. They can be on edge the entire time, everytime they hit the street. Stoking it from the top doesn't help.

As far as the kid goes, we had a bunch of kids running all over our neighborhood with the AirSoft guns for a while some years ago. I voiced my concerns then about something exactly like this happening. All it takes is one bewildered neighbor or someones visiting grandma to look out the window and see a bunch of kids dressed in camo's running around with black rifles to get a whole bevy of cops tearing around here. Especially since we live literally across the street from both an Elementary and High School. I'm honestly surprised we didn't have more of these instances, it's really easy to remove that little orange tip, then what? Can you make out the difference from 100 feet away? 50 feet? When someone is reaching for it?

These are all indeed tragedy's, and we'll find out more about this one instance. But as we've seen the rush to judgment is often more counter productive than anything more recently these were not done with malice.

This one, we'll see.

(04-08-2015 04:31 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  No one is arguing JMU's point though, the discussion isn't about whether or not it's safe to run from the police.

So, no. You didn't read the post to which I was responding. What a weird way to wade into a part of a conversation you either weren't a part of or simply can't understand.

Here, let me help you out...

Failure to comply with an officer's orders is not punishable by death in any jurisdiction in America.

Get it now?