As I have listened to Neal Boortz state many time before,

" we do not have a race problem in the USA, we have Cultural Problems within the USA." Until we address the cultures and the short comings with these cultures( the black community culture) then nothing will change in the USA.


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(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

You are correct, but how else is law enforcement going to know if they have a problem?

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(08-14-2014 02:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

You are correct, but how else is law enforcement going to know if they have a problem?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

What do you mean?

Collecting data using race as a data point is the problem in general. You'd be better served asking these people what they do for a living and compiling date on the fact that unemployed people or labourers are more likely to commit crimes than accountants.

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

I've tended to think about this in these terms as well for some time. Never did the heavy-ish lifting of digging into the numbers all that far though.

If you took race out of the equation entirely, then simply broke it down by "class", what do the numbers look like? I'd guess it would be pretty close to the same as a racial breakdown for burglaries, robberies, petty larceny, car heists, low level drug dealing distribution, etc.

Now one large problem with that is the other unignorable fact that the population is not anywhere close to 50-50. Take out all other "races" or check boxes and it's something like White/Caucasian 70%+-, while those that id as Black it's around 13%, I believe.

Another problem with that is the rate of violent crime. Haven't looked but I'm going to guess that murder rates and other gun related crimes do not reflect % wise as to how many whites are "poor" and committing these crimes as to the % of Blacks.

Be an interesting study if it could be done legitimately.

(08-14-2014 02:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

I've tended to think about this in these terms as well for some time. Never did the heavy-ish lifting of digging into the numbers all that far though.

If you took race out of the equation entirely, then simply broke it down by "class", what do the numbers look like? I'd guess it would be pretty close to the same as a racial breakdown for burglaries, robberies, petty larceny, car heists, low level drug dealing distribution, etc.

Now one large problem with that is the other unignorable fact that the population is not anywhere close to 50-50. Take out all other "races" or check boxes and it's something like White/Caucasian 70%+-, while those that id as Black it's around 13%, I believe.

Another problem with that is the rate of violent crime. Haven't looked but I'm going to guess that murder rates and other gun related crimes do not reflect % wise as to how many whites are "poor" and committing these crimes as to the % of Blacks.

Be an interesting study if it could be done legitimately.

Call me a cynic but I don't believe it can be. There is an element in this country that wants to keep the racial animus alive in order to further their own goals.

(08-14-2014 02:20 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

I've tended to think about this in these terms as well for some time. Never did the heavy-ish lifting of digging into the numbers all that far though.

If you took race out of the equation entirely, then simply broke it down by "class", what do the numbers look like? I'd guess it would be pretty close to the same as a racial breakdown for burglaries, robberies, petty larceny, car heists, low level drug dealing distribution, etc.

Now one large problem with that is the other unignorable fact that the population is not anywhere close to 50-50. Take out all other "races" or check boxes and it's something like White/Caucasian 70%+-, while those that id as Black it's around 13%, I believe.

Another problem with that is the rate of violent crime. Haven't looked but I'm going to guess that murder rates and other gun related crimes do not reflect % wise as to how many whites are "poor" and committing these crimes as to the % of Blacks.

Be an interesting study if it could be done legitimately.

Call me a cynic but I don't believe it can be. There is an element in this country that wants to keep the racial animus alive in order to further their own goals.

what is your stance?

(08-14-2014 02:40 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:20 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

I've tended to think about this in these terms as well for some time. Never did the heavy-ish lifting of digging into the numbers all that far though.

If you took race out of the equation entirely, then simply broke it down by "class", what do the numbers look like? I'd guess it would be pretty close to the same as a racial breakdown for burglaries, robberies, petty larceny, car heists, low level drug dealing distribution, etc.

Now one large problem with that is the other unignorable fact that the population is not anywhere close to 50-50. Take out all other "races" or check boxes and it's something like White/Caucasian 70%+-, while those that id as Black it's around 13%, I believe.

Another problem with that is the rate of violent crime. Haven't looked but I'm going to guess that murder rates and other gun related crimes do not reflect % wise as to how many whites are "poor" and committing these crimes as to the % of Blacks.

Be an interesting study if it could be done legitimately.

Call me a cynic but I don't believe it can be. There is an element in this country that wants to keep the racial animus alive in order to further their own goals.

what is your stance?

On?

(08-14-2014 02:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

You are correct, but how else is law enforcement going to know if they have a problem?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

What do you mean?

Collecting data using race as a data point is the problem in general. You'd be better served asking these people what they do for a living and compiling date on the fact that unemployed people or labourers are more likely to commit crimes than accountants.

If you suspect racial profiling within your force, wouldn't you want to start keeping stats?

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(08-14-2014 02:49 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

You are correct, but how else is law enforcement going to know if they have a problem?

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

What do you mean?

Collecting data using race as a data point is the problem in general. You'd be better served asking these people what they do for a living and compiling date on the fact that unemployed people or labourers are more likely to commit crimes than accountants.

If you suspect racial profiling within your force, wouldn't you want to start keeping stats?

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In practice we go right back to the chicken and egg issue.

Pulling over a Crown Vic on 28 in rims at 2:30 in the morning in a questionable area is a slam dunk for finding drugs.

Maybe so but I'm not talking about the car. Cars don't have race.

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(08-14-2014 03:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Maybe so but I'm not talking about the car. Cars don't have race.

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Have you ever seen a white person drive such a vehicle? Now be honest.

I do have a problem with them arresting reporters. That is some bull****.

It's going to get mighty interesting around here when the cop turns out to be black...

(08-14-2014 03:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Maybe so but I'm not talking about the car. Cars don't have race.

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Then why do you keep pointing out race? At night, you can't see the driver, it's the car that looks suspicious.

(08-14-2014 02:20 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

I've tended to think about this in these terms as well for some time. Never did the heavy-ish lifting of digging into the numbers all that far though.

If you took race out of the equation entirely, then simply broke it down by "class", what do the numbers look like? I'd guess it would be pretty close to the same as a racial breakdown for burglaries, robberies, petty larceny, car heists, low level drug dealing distribution, etc.

Now one large problem with that is the other unignorable fact that the population is not anywhere close to 50-50. Take out all other "races" or check boxes and it's something like White/Caucasian 70%+-, while those that id as Black it's around 13%, I believe.

Another problem with that is the rate of violent crime. Haven't looked but I'm going to guess that murder rates and other gun related crimes do not reflect % wise as to how many whites are "poor" and committing these crimes as to the % of Blacks.

Be an interesting study if it could be done legitimately.

Call me a cynic but I don't believe it can be. There is an element in this country that wants to keep the racial animus alive in order to further their own goals.

I was midstream in that post above, when I got a rather disturbing phone call, so some of that isn't quite worded right. But, I think you got basically what I was driving at.

As far as doing it "legitimately" there is no question it could be done, clearly the numbers are there and the numbers would be the numbers.

BUT, someone, everyone, everywhere will put their agenda driven "spin" on the results no matter what it told us. Who did the study? Who funded the study? Who releases or discusses the findings? on and on and on.

I may well misuse some of the terms here, but frankly I don't care.-

What I'm suggesting is if you make the numbers (instances of crime) all Beige, then control for (?) income level, education, systemic or generational poverty, perhaps one or two other clearly indicative circumstances (two parent family, or simply father in the house or other significant male influence- Grandad, Uncle, someone NOT in trouble themselves) how do the numbers fall?

Then you would have to compare the two sets of data. See if you can distill (mmm, distill) what the strongest underlying indicator of a propensity for crime is. Race? Poor? combo of both?

Is this making sense? haha

(08-14-2014 03:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:20 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 02:03 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In my opinion, people assigning race to the whole issue is the problem. Poor people commit crimes at a dramatically higher rate. This is a fundamental truth that expresses itself across every group in society.

Publishing race based numbers like this is immoral in my opinion because it stokes racial tensions and the numbers are actually utterly meaningless.

Is crime rampant in the black community because they are black or because they have dramatically higher rates of poverty?

The answer is simple.

Race Race Race! That's all Americans care about and it's idiotic.

I've tended to think about this in these terms as well for some time. Never did the heavy-ish lifting of digging into the numbers all that far though.

If you took race out of the equation entirely, then simply broke it down by "class", what do the numbers look like? I'd guess it would be pretty close to the same as a racial breakdown for burglaries, robberies, petty larceny, car heists, low level drug dealing distribution, etc.

Now one large problem with that is the other unignorable fact that the population is not anywhere close to 50-50. Take out all other "races" or check boxes and it's something like White/Caucasian 70%+-, while those that id as Black it's around 13%, I believe.

Another problem with that is the rate of violent crime. Haven't looked but I'm going to guess that murder rates and other gun related crimes do not reflect % wise as to how many whites are "poor" and committing these crimes as to the % of Blacks.

Be an interesting study if it could be done legitimately.

Call me a cynic but I don't believe it can be. There is an element in this country that wants to keep the racial animus alive in order to further their own goals.

I was midstream in that post above, when I got a rather disturbing phone call, so some of that isn't quite worded right. But, I think you got basically what I was driving at.

As far as doing it "legitimately" there is no question it could be done, clearly the numbers are there and the numbers would be the numbers.

BUT, someone, everyone, everywhere will put their agenda driven "spin" on the results no matter what it told us. Who did the study? Who funded the study? Who releases or discusses the findings? on and on and on.

I may well misuse some of the terms here, but frankly I don't care.-

What I'm suggesting is if you make the numbers (instances of crime) all Beige, then control for (?) income level, education, systemic or generational poverty, perhaps one or two other clearly indicative circumstances (two parent family, or simply father in the house or other significant male influence- Grandad, Uncle, someone NOT in trouble themselves) how do the numbers fall?

Then you would have to compare the two sets of data. See if you can distill (mmm, distill) what the strongest underlying indicator of a propensity for crime is. Race? Poor? combo of both?

Is this making sense? haha

100%

We're tracking right along on this one.

Hard to imagine this hasn't been done, seems like a pretty obvious study for someone to have tackled. Maybe it has, but I've not heard of it, nothing widely recognized or discussed, anyway.

Course then the next question becomes, depending on what the data may tell us- so what? If it's largely indicated by a life and outlook of poverty and despair, what do we do?

If, instead it appears that race is indeed a better indicator, regardless of the circumstances, then it's a really, really BIG What Do We Do? haha. That'd be a tough one!

(08-14-2014 03:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 03:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Maybe so but I'm not talking about the car. Cars don't have race.

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Have you ever seen a white person drive such a vehicle? Now be honest.

Not usually. I don't have a problem with car profiling. Not race profiling.

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(08-14-2014 03:36 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 03:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-14-2014 03:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Maybe so but I'm not talking about the car. Cars don't have race.

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Have you ever seen a white person drive such a vehicle? Now be honest.

Not usually. I don't have a problem with car profiling. Not race profiling.

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Is it race profiling or is it fashion profiling if you pay particular attention to sagging jeans, baggy t-shirts, flat billed hats, and grills?

Don't have a problem with fashion profiling but I could see how that could become a problem as well. What if cops decided to stop everyone wearing Confederate flags?

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