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Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-25-2017 05:44 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(04-25-2017 05:26 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(04-24-2017 11:17 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Yeah, I don't believe we were anywhere near the WAC. I'm not sure why. Our first big chance to escape the Big Sky came in the early '70s when we were invited to the PCAA, which later became the Big West and at the time featured, among others, San Diego St., Fresno St., and San Jose St, and would soon add Utah St., UNLV and NMSU. We were blocked from membership by the SBOE because Boise St. objected to being left behind.

Many, many ironies in Idaho football history.

The myth that BSU (Boise State College or BSC at the time) had anything to do with UI not getting into the PCAA in 1973 is absurd. BSC has been in the state system only four years in 1973. It only had a few thousand students and a few buildings. It had no representation on the ISBOE (ISU had little more). BSC had only been D2 for a couple years and had no desire at the time to be D1 and no prospects to be D1 so they could not be left behind. BSC was already behind. Not getting in the PCAA did not necessarily result in UI dropping down (it put them in a similar position to today) and UI did not immediately drop down a division. The rift was between a D1 PCAA faction at the UI led by the AD versus a de-emphasize athletics (BSC) faction led by prominent faculty. The incident that tipped the scales was when UI's own comptroller accused the AD of inflating economic gains from the PCAA and declared the UI would never be likely to increase attendance enough to cover the costs of being in the PCAA and thus embracing the BSC and cutting costs was the only fiscally prudent move. This disclosure from a UI employee led to the deciding vote being cast in the ISBOE by an UI alumnus from Sandpoint. It was self inflicted. Tiny BSC couldn't have influenced the ISBOE in those days even if they had wanted to do so.

You are a good guy and I root for UI to remain FBS but the tale of a BSU or BSU/ISU power move (depending on the rant) in the ISBOE in 1973 is simply not true nor was it possible then. The source for this tale comes from the UI student newpaper archives and gets repeated on Vandal websites but it is obviously has no basis in fact.

That's funny. I wasn't around back then and I've never done the research but this is something that's repeated as fact so often around Idaho people that I took it as true. Your account certainly makes more sense than anything I've seen from Idaho people and I'd heard the bit about the faculty split part of this before (it certainly still exists today), so I'll defer to you and retract anything about BSU having anything to do with it unless some other Idaho fan wants to correct your correction.

Phenomenal post and classy reaction between a couple of interesting and civil posters. I learned more about the Idaho Boise St history here than any where else.
04-25-2017 08:49 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-25-2017 08:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(04-25-2017 05:44 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(04-25-2017 05:26 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(04-24-2017 11:17 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Yeah, I don't believe we were anywhere near the WAC. I'm not sure why. Our first big chance to escape the Big Sky came in the early '70s when we were invited to the PCAA, which later became the Big West and at the time featured, among others, San Diego St., Fresno St., and San Jose St, and would soon add Utah St., UNLV and NMSU. We were blocked from membership by the SBOE because Boise St. objected to being left behind.

Many, many ironies in Idaho football history.

The myth that BSU (Boise State College or BSC at the time) had anything to do with UI not getting into the PCAA in 1973 is absurd. BSC has been in the state system only four years in 1973. It only had a few thousand students and a few buildings. It had no representation on the ISBOE (ISU had little more). BSC had only been D2 for a couple years and had no desire at the time to be D1 and no prospects to be D1 so they could not be left behind. BSC was already behind. Not getting in the PCAA did not necessarily result in UI dropping down (it put them in a similar position to today) and UI did not immediately drop down a division. The rift was between a D1 PCAA faction at the UI led by the AD versus a de-emphasize athletics (BSC) faction led by prominent faculty. The incident that tipped the scales was when UI's own comptroller accused the AD of inflating economic gains from the PCAA and declared the UI would never be likely to increase attendance enough to cover the costs of being in the PCAA and thus embracing the BSC and cutting costs was the only fiscally prudent move. This disclosure from a UI employee led to the deciding vote being cast in the ISBOE by an UI alumnus from Sandpoint. It was self inflicted. Tiny BSC couldn't have influenced the ISBOE in those days even if they had wanted to do so.

You are a good guy and I root for UI to remain FBS but the tale of a BSU or BSU/ISU power move (depending on the rant) in the ISBOE in 1973 is simply not true nor was it possible then. The source for this tale comes from the UI student newpaper archives and gets repeated on Vandal websites but it is obviously has no basis in fact.

That's funny. I wasn't around back then and I've never done the research but this is something that's repeated as fact so often around Idaho people that I took it as true. Your account certainly makes more sense than anything I've seen from Idaho people and I'd heard the bit about the faculty split part of this before (it certainly still exists today), so I'll defer to you and retract anything about BSU having anything to do with it unless some other Idaho fan wants to correct your correction.

Phenomenal post and classy reaction between a couple of interesting and civil posters. I learned more about the Idaho Boise St history here than any where else.

Virtually all of my many interactions with the great Vandals I know are just like this one with Latah. I have members in my family who are alums of one or both of these schools.

Another element to the vote that day was as soon as the vote to allow UI to join the PCAA failed, the same board members who introduced the PCAA motion made and seconded another motion to allow UI to become an independent D1 school and leave the BSC. That motion failed with the same margin and the board members voting as they did before:

No:
Janet Hay - Nampa
M.T. Deaton - Pocatello
D.F. Engelking - Boise (superindentant of Public Instruction)
J.P. Munson - Sandpoint (the deciding vote and UI alum)
Yes:
A.L. Alford - Lewiston
Ed Benoit - Twin Falls
Ken Thatcher - Twin Falls
Abstained:
John Swartley - Sandpoint (Board Chair)

Earlier that year the board had voted to go ahead with the design phase of the Kibbie Dome roof and had appropriated funds for that purpose. This was also integral to the ISBOE voting against both of the motions described above as it bolstered the argument that UI would not be able to increase attendance sufficiently to afford the PCAA and the UI was going to add significant debt to finish the dome. Undoubtedly ISU and BSU preferred to keep their newly acquired in-state rival but neither had the power to effect a board that was UI dominated and UI friendly. Factionalism and creative accounting (or the accusation thereof) along with already being committed to small stadium indoor football is what torpedoed the PCAA or Independent status for the Vandals in 1973. Now the firing of the BSU president over BSU being offered and wanting to accept a BWC slot in 1992 is another story...

In any case, UI staying in the Big Sky did not result in the Vandals dropping to the Small College (D2) division (which is the division at which the rest of the BSC schools were classified from the inception of the BSC in 1963). Idaho continued to play as a University Division/D1 school in a D2 league until the creation of the 1AA subdivision of football allowed the rest of the BSC to move to D1 (and D1AA football) in 1978. D1AA at the time had guaranteed network football games and television revenue sharing so it was not a tough sell. Oddly enough, UI was in the Small College Division (D2) in the first year of the NCAA (1937) and in 1967 through 1968 (consistent with their SC/D2 Big Sky peers). The Vandals played as a D1 school in the D2 Big Sky from 1965-1966 (despite being a charter member of the Big Sky, UI did not play football in the conference until 1965) and then from 1969-1977. Maybe a third time... naw, nobody would go for that, would they?
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2017 10:03 PM by Bronco85.)
04-26-2017 09:42 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
As always ... very interesting history. Thanks guys!


When is the next likely update to this saga expected to take place??
04-28-2017 10:59 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-28-2017 10:59 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  As always ... very interesting history. Thanks guys!


When is the next likely update to this saga expected to take place??

After rejecting the 4-year, $4 million bailout in February, the SBOE approved a 1-year, $1 million request last week. One would assume that in order to get any more money the school will now need to provide the SBOE with a real plan to balance its books, which will include fairly substantial cuts to the athletic department. I don't know the timetable for that, but it would have to be public sometime in the next 10 months and I'd expect leaks well before then.

I'll be very interested to see how they project donations going forward. They've already taken a hit, but they're going to take a much bigger drop once we actually move to FCS -- I'd estimate 1/3 to 1/2 of the remaining boosters (including me!) will stop or severely cut back on their donations at that point. We'll see if the school corrects for that or if they just keep whistling past the graveyard.

Meanwhile through all this, I'd expect another bowl season for Idaho, which will make Chuck's decision look more questionable to more people.
04-28-2017 03:15 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
So let's say it's later in December, Idaho caps an improbable season (say 10 wins total) with a bowl game win.

Boosters are actually excited, and threatening to cut donations if FCS goes forward.


Given that those things could happen (not far fetched), what is the likely outcome of that??
04-28-2017 03:26 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-28-2017 03:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  So let's say it's later in December, Idaho caps an improbable season (say 10 wins total) with a bowl game win.

Boosters are actually excited, and threatening to cut donations if FCS goes forward.


Given that those things could happen (not far fetched), what is the likely outcome of that??

Is Chuck Staben still president? I mean, I have no idea what would happen, but boosters are threatening those things right now. I think Staben looks even worse that way, but he's so wrapped up in his decision at this point I don't know how he reverses himself.

But, there are other variables regarding President Chuck's illustrious tenure. Degree numbers at the U of I, courtesy of the Vandal Board:

Historic Data uidaho.edu/provost/iea/degrees-awarded
Fall Commencement uidaho.edu/news/news-articles/news-releases/2016-november/112816-fallcommencement
Spring Commencement uidaho.edu/news/news-articles/news-releases/2017-april/042517-moscowcommencement

The degrees awarded peaked during the 2012-2013 Academic Year with 3107.

2009-2010 Academic Year- 2574 degrees awarded

2010-2011 Academic Year- 2667 degrees awarded

2011-2012 Academic Year- 2842 degrees awarded

2012-2013 Academic Year- 3107 degrees awarded

2013-2014 Academic Year- 3047 degrees awarded

2014-2015 Academic Year- 2861 degrees awarded

2015-2016 Academic Year- 2700 degrees awarded

2016-2017 Academic Year- 2206 degrees awarded

So, given those numbers the current academic year has a 18.3% decrease in degrees awarded with a 28.9% decrease since the 2012-2013 academic year.

There's not a lot going well at Idaho right now. One would like to think someone important would notice that eventually and want to do something about it.
04-28-2017 06:25 PM
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