Should note, there is no rule against sign stealing. What is against the rules is communicating opponent signs electronically in game, and scouting opponents in person (which was actually a cost cutting measure and had nothing to do with stealing signs).
Quote:If you're signals are so easy to steal, change them.
I agree on that part. But it's not difficult to make it not put it in a basket of easy to steal. UM having to cross the line in playing tricks to steal them definitely implies they're not easy to pick up by default.
Apparently there's some low level staffer with a military background that the NCAA is looking at, specifically his computer records. Which is consistent with the above screen capture. Contrary to the contents of the screen capture, the sign stealing is the legal part, the illegal part was scouting an opponent in season.
It's a new level of insanity to me that the NCAA allows staff at these colleges almost literally be worked to death, but made it illegal to send a guy with a camcorder to an opponents game as a "cost-cutting" measure.
(10-20-2023 09:47 AM)RunningGame Wrote: It's a new level of insanity to me that the NCAA allows staff at these colleges almost literally be worked to death, but made it illegal to send a guy with a camcorder to an opponents game as a "cost-cutting" measure.
I have no doubt that the words "cost cutting" was disingenuous.
This is all about Harbaugh refusing to admit guilt in the recruiting violation (buying a recruit a burger) investigation. They are going to look into anything and everything to go after him.
He's probably going back to the NFL after this year anyway if McCarthy goes pro so he doesn't care. That's the end goal of the powers that be. They want him out of the college game.
My take is for instance of baseball studying signs, tendencies, patterns, tells is really at the heart of the game. It’s almost what makes the game special. As a pitcher, I was taught to study shadows, to get clues about a runners location without looking, etc. etc.
And please, there is a video data base of nearly every game played. As far as practices, that is more problematic for me, but with drones or smuggling a camera into a practice area it would be totally easy. Not much is a secret anymore.
Game outcomes are more about being able to stop the stuff you completely know is going to happen. Even if you’re wearing an earbud that tells you the next play call, that still doesn’t mean you can stop the play.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2023 01:55 PM by Dirty Ernie.)
(10-20-2023 01:53 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: My take is for instance of baseball studying signs, tendencies, patterns, tells is really at the heart of the game. It’s almost what makes the game special. As a pitcher, I was taught to study shadows, to get clues about a runners location without looking, etc. etc.
And please, there is a video data base of nearly every game played. As far as practices, that is more problematic for me, but with drones or smuggling a camera into a practice area it would be totally easy. Not much is a secret anymore.
Game outcomes are more about being able to stop the stuff you completely know is going to happen. Even if you’re wearing an earbud that tells you the next play call, that still doesn’t mean you can stop the play.
Game films do not include shots of sidelines to see signals.
If a batter facing you in your pitching days Ernie knew you were throwing a curveball you don't think he'd have a better chance of hitting it?
(10-20-2023 01:53 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: My take is for instance of baseball studying signs, tendencies, patterns, tells is really at the heart of the game. It’s almost what makes the game special. As a pitcher, I was taught to study shadows, to get clues about a runners location without looking, etc. etc.
And please, there is a video data base of nearly every game played. As far as practices, that is more problematic for me, but with drones or smuggling a camera into a practice area it would be totally easy. Not much is a secret anymore.
Game outcomes are more about being able to stop the stuff you completely know is going to happen. Even if you’re wearing an earbud that tells you the next play call, that still doesn’t mean you can stop the play.
Again, the sign stealing isn't the part that's illegal.
Right, sign stealing isn't illegal, though it seems to be the motivation behind what Michigan was doing which certainly makes it feel a bit shadier.
My thing is, if Michigan wanted to gain an edge with this stuff, why bother doing it against programs they should easily beat anyway? Maybe save it for the tough games, lol. I guess maybe they need the practice in spotting trends..
Edit: the original Athletic story also made mention of them *recording* signals, which if done electronically is in fact illegal per the NCAA. Can't say for sure if that's true, but that's a potential factor as well.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2023 03:15 PM by wmubroncopilot.)
(10-20-2023 03:13 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: Right, sign stealing isn't illegal, though it seems to be the motivation behind what Michigan was doing which certainly makes it feel a bit shadier.
My thing is, if Michigan wanted to gain an edge with this stuff, why bother doing it against programs they should easily beat anyway? Maybe save it for the tough games, lol. I guess maybe they need the practice in spotting trends..
Right, the problem is HOW they stole the signs. It's the in person scouting.
This really comes across as a kid trying to make a name for himself, and doing whatever it takes to do that. That said, I have a really hard time believing coaches didn't know something was up (and that's being kind).
(10-20-2023 03:13 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: Right, sign stealing isn't illegal, though it seems to be the motivation behind what Michigan was doing which certainly makes it feel a bit shadier.
My thing is, if Michigan wanted to gain an edge with this stuff, why bother doing it against programs they should easily beat anyway? Maybe save it for the tough games, lol. I guess maybe they need the practice in spotting trends..
Right, the problem is HOW they stole the signs. It's the in person scouting.
This really comes across as a kid trying to make a name for himself, and doing whatever it takes to do that. That said, I have a really hard time believing coaches didn't know something was up (and that's being kind).
Yeah, it comes down to control of the program at that point. Even if Harbaugh somehow didn't know (and I highly doubt that), if his staff was using this info and he somehow was unaware that doesn't speak well to his leadership of the staff and it falls on him in the end anyway.
Bottom line is if some staffer went rogue and was going to games trying to give signs to the staff and they refused, he should have been disciplined (probably fired) and the other teams likely never would have suspected anything in the first place.
(10-20-2023 03:13 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote: My thing is, if Michigan wanted to gain an edge with this stuff, why bother doing it against programs they should easily beat anyway? Maybe save it for the tough games, lol. I guess maybe they need the practice in spotting trends..
Apparently this has gone on for two seasons. Ironic or not they have finally beaten OSU in those years.
/
U of M football being investigated again
![[Image: 171m-Za4-Ab-DGb-Knl8a-Oq-DBJ8x-TScs-ZSEKIFMO-A.png]](https://i.ibb.co/6H7vxkc/171m-Za4-Ab-DGb-Knl8a-Oq-DBJ8x-TScs-ZSEKIFMO-A.png)
