(01-03-2023 08:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 07:10 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(12-31-2022 09:58 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Arizona is AAU and a long standing WWII/Cold Warrior U but is much, much smaller than Arizona State. ASU is not an land grant either. Purdue might be the only younger land grant that outshines it's in-state older rival. FSU and Louisville are difficult to place because they are relatively young in the context of 175 to 200 year old states.

The Commonwealth of Kentucky joined the union in 1792.
The University of Louisville was founded in 1798…. if 6 years is “relatively young”

UofL is a 225 year old institution. The oldest city owned university in the country. One of the first universities chartered west of the Allegheny Mountains.

UofL is the third oldest university in The ACC. Pittsburgh was founded in 1787 and UNC was founded in 1789.

Yes! And more importantly people who graduated from them back then could read, write (and I mean in cursive), and speak the language eloquently, in addition to being able to do basic mathematics in their heads without reliance upon devices of any kind, and do it without electricity, and while still being expected to perform manual tasks daily.

We've come so far in 225 years that the last thing anyone should do today is feel academic arrogance when the product they collectively produce is so very lacking. They are now more concerned with what credentials they hold than what they actually know and can do.

In the words of the Guinness company, "Brilliant!" And one more pet peeve of mine, why do we need a distinction between a "City" university, a "Rural" university, a "Private University" and a "State" university, as if somehow, they weren't all universities? Is their setting somehow relevant to their product?

I have a client, an attorney, who showed me some material he was putting together for a family history.
His grandfather had moved his family from Stokes County, North Carolina to Davie County, North Carolina in 1912.
The primary reason for the move: The school system in Stokes County only went through the 6th grade at that time, while the school system in Davie County went through the 8th grade. At that time an 8th grade education was required to be admitted to a State University, and the man wanted his children to go to college.
Fundamental life skills or reading, writing, and arithmetic and the desire to obtain those skills is what powered the US in the 20th century.

(01-03-2023 08:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 07:10 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(12-31-2022 09:58 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Arizona is AAU and a long standing WWII/Cold Warrior U but is much, much smaller than Arizona State. ASU is not an land grant either. Purdue might be the only younger land grant that outshines it's in-state older rival. FSU and Louisville are difficult to place because they are relatively young in the context of 175 to 200 year old states.

The Commonwealth of Kentucky joined the union in 1792.
The University of Louisville was founded in 1798…. if 6 years is “relatively young”

UofL is a 225 year old institution. The oldest city owned university in the country. One of the first universities chartered west of the Allegheny Mountains.

UofL is the third oldest university in The ACC. Pittsburgh was founded in 1787 and UNC was founded in 1789.

Yes! And more importantly people who graduated from them back then could read, write (and I mean in cursive), and speak the language eloquently, in addition to being able to do basic mathematics in their heads without reliance upon devices of any kind, and do it without electricity, and while still being expected to perform manual tasks daily.

We've come so far in 225 years that the last thing anyone should do today is feel academic arrogance when the product they collectively produce is so very lacking. They are now more concerned with what credentials they hold than what they actually know and can do.

In the words of the Guinness company, "Brilliant!" And one more pet peeve of mine, why do we need a distinction between a "City" university, a "Rural" university, a "Private University" and a "State" university, as if somehow, they weren't all universities? Is their setting somehow relevant to their product?

I always get a chuckle out of that one too. Globally, we're just talking about the means of funding or location of the university, not the quality of the institution. As to "City" moniker, I think people conflate that Louisville (and my alma mater Cincinnati) were historically municipally funded because our doors opened well before the Morrill Land Grant Act (like NYU or College of Charleston) but neither UC or Louisville have been municipally funded since the mid 1970s. Cincinnati is independent and part of the same system in Ohio that Ohio State and the Ohio MAC universities are part of.

(01-03-2023 07:10 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(12-31-2022 09:58 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Arizona is AAU and a long standing WWII/Cold Warrior U but is much, much smaller than Arizona State. ASU is not an land grant either. Purdue might be the only younger land grant that outshines it's in-state older rival. FSU and Louisville are difficult to place because they are relatively young in the context of 175 to 200 year old states.

The Commonwealth of Kentucky joined the union in 1792.
The University of Louisville was founded in 1798…. if 6 years is “relatively young”

UofL is a 225 year old institution. The oldest city owned university in the country. One of the first universities chartered west of the Allegheny Mountains.

UofL is the third oldest university in The ACC. Pittsburgh was founded in 1787 and UNC was founded in 1789.

Jim you know the real history of Louisville. You know that what was founded in 1798 was a seminary that did not last. You know that Louisville has been cobbled together back and forth for decades until the State coalesced in the late 60's because it could no longer fund itself.

A Med School with an attached set of programs is rather unique in the US and difficult to place in the context of the P-5. Perhaps your closest analogue is UAB.

When you are chartered and when you become an actual university is two different things. Years spent as Med School, Law School, or Girls School don't really mark your coming out party.

I suggest you read the in depth history of Duke and Wake Forest. Try to determine when and what made them universities instead of a seminary or just a Randolph County NC shack.

Institutions of higher education have a stated purpose and usually a vision and scope that is plain and easy to read in their charter.

The actual name of the institution does not always indicate what they were or are today.

Pitt, Syracuse, Miami, Louisville, Houston, Cincy, BC, Memphis, Dayton, Boston U, Wake Forest, Trinity (Duke), all have an original city in their name, but they are not same type of institutions and none of them were founded as "Universities". They evolve into a University.

Normal Schools and Teachers Colleges do the same - they evolve like App State and ECU.

Where you a "real" university in 1900?. How about at the end of WWI? How about the end of WWII? How about during the Cold War?

Let's look at UNC-CH

Here is what UNC says about themselves: https://museum.unc.edu/exhibits/show/res...le--1856-:

Francis Preston Venable, professor of chemistry and president from 1900 to 1914, began transforming the University of North Carolina from a college to a true university. The first faculty member to hold a Ph.D., he insisted on sound scholarship and the rigorous training of students. As university president, he oversaw a significant expansion of the student body, the faculty, and the physical campus, and he created an administration designed to manage a growing institution.

UNC becomes a university due to Union Carbide and Flagler's real estate development empire. As a true "University" UNC is about 125 years old. The Duke Endowment made Trinity College a University in the very early 20th Century.

You aren't just playing football with arrogant snots - you are playing with and against entities that became Universities in time to profit off the Gilded Age, WWI, WWII, and early stages of the Cold War.

This is what really makes you and FSU, Houston, Ok State and a few others "relatively" young compared to the rest of the P-5.

UCF and USF by comparison are "toddlers".

If we lived in a world where greater age and wealth did not result on the older and richer keeping kids at bay then we would not be living in the world.

The kid always thinks it's personal. It's not - it's structural.

(01-03-2023 10:04 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 08:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 07:10 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(12-31-2022 09:58 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Arizona is AAU and a long standing WWII/Cold Warrior U but is much, much smaller than Arizona State. ASU is not an land grant either. Purdue might be the only younger land grant that outshines it's in-state older rival. FSU and Louisville are difficult to place because they are relatively young in the context of 175 to 200 year old states.

The Commonwealth of Kentucky joined the union in 1792.
The University of Louisville was founded in 1798…. if 6 years is “relatively young”

UofL is a 225 year old institution. The oldest city owned university in the country. One of the first universities chartered west of the Allegheny Mountains.

UofL is the third oldest university in The ACC. Pittsburgh was founded in 1787 and UNC was founded in 1789.

Yes! And more importantly people who graduated from them back then could read, write (and I mean in cursive), and speak the language eloquently, in addition to being able to do basic mathematics in their heads without reliance upon devices of any kind, and do it without electricity, and while still being expected to perform manual tasks daily.

We've come so far in 225 years that the last thing anyone should do today is feel academic arrogance when the product they collectively produce is so very lacking. They are now more concerned with what credentials they hold than what they actually know and can do.

In the words of the Guinness company, "Brilliant!" And one more pet peeve of mine, why do we need a distinction between a "City" university, a "Rural" university, a "Private University" and a "State" university, as if somehow, they weren't all universities? Is their setting somehow relevant to their product?

I have a client, an attorney, who showed me some material he was putting together for a family history.
His grandfather had moved his family from Stokes County, North Carolina to Davie County, North Carolina in 1912.
The primary reason for the move: The school system in Stokes County only went through the 6th grade at that time, while the school system in Davie County went through the 8th grade. At that time an 8th grade education was required to be admitted to a State University, and the man wanted his children to go to college.
Fundamental life skills or reading, writing, and arithmetic and the desire to obtain those skills is what powered the US in the 20th century.

Along with two World Wars, the Cold War, the GI Bill, cheap immigrant labor and cheap oil before 1973.

(01-03-2023 02:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 10:04 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 08:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 07:10 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(12-31-2022 09:58 AM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  Arizona is AAU and a long standing WWII/Cold Warrior U but is much, much smaller than Arizona State. ASU is not an land grant either. Purdue might be the only younger land grant that outshines it's in-state older rival. FSU and Louisville are difficult to place because they are relatively young in the context of 175 to 200 year old states.

The Commonwealth of Kentucky joined the union in 1792.
The University of Louisville was founded in 1798…. if 6 years is “relatively young”

UofL is a 225 year old institution. The oldest city owned university in the country. One of the first universities chartered west of the Allegheny Mountains.

UofL is the third oldest university in The ACC. Pittsburgh was founded in 1787 and UNC was founded in 1789.

Yes! And more importantly people who graduated from them back then could read, write (and I mean in cursive), and speak the language eloquently, in addition to being able to do basic mathematics in their heads without reliance upon devices of any kind, and do it without electricity, and while still being expected to perform manual tasks daily.

We've come so far in 225 years that the last thing anyone should do today is feel academic arrogance when the product they collectively produce is so very lacking. They are now more concerned with what credentials they hold than what they actually know and can do.

In the words of the Guinness company, "Brilliant!" And one more pet peeve of mine, why do we need a distinction between a "City" university, a "Rural" university, a "Private University" and a "State" university, as if somehow, they weren't all universities? Is their setting somehow relevant to their product?

I have a client, an attorney, who showed me some material he was putting together for a family history.
His grandfather had moved his family from Stokes County, North Carolina to Davie County, North Carolina in 1912.
The primary reason for the move: The school system in Stokes County only went through the 6th grade at that time, while the school system in Davie County went through the 8th grade. At that time an 8th grade education was required to be admitted to a State University, and the man wanted his children to go to college.
Fundamental life skills or reading, writing, and arithmetic and the desire to obtain those skills is what powered the US in the 20th century.

Along with two World Wars, the Cold War, the GI Bill, cheap immigrant labor and cheap oil before 1973.

...and don't forget a very resource-rich geography, especially on a per capita basis!

(01-03-2023 03:39 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 02:22 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 10:04 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 08:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 07:10 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The Commonwealth of Kentucky joined the union in 1792.
The University of Louisville was founded in 1798…. if 6 years is “relatively young”

UofL is a 225 year old institution. The oldest city owned university in the country. One of the first universities chartered west of the Allegheny Mountains.

UofL is the third oldest university in The ACC. Pittsburgh was founded in 1787 and UNC was founded in 1789.

Yes! And more importantly people who graduated from them back then could read, write (and I mean in cursive), and speak the language eloquently, in addition to being able to do basic mathematics in their heads without reliance upon devices of any kind, and do it without electricity, and while still being expected to perform manual tasks daily.

We've come so far in 225 years that the last thing anyone should do today is feel academic arrogance when the product they collectively produce is so very lacking. They are now more concerned with what credentials they hold than what they actually know and can do.

In the words of the Guinness company, "Brilliant!" And one more pet peeve of mine, why do we need a distinction between a "City" university, a "Rural" university, a "Private University" and a "State" university, as if somehow, they weren't all universities? Is their setting somehow relevant to their product?

I have a client, an attorney, who showed me some material he was putting together for a family history.
His grandfather had moved his family from Stokes County, North Carolina to Davie County, North Carolina in 1912.
The primary reason for the move: The school system in Stokes County only went through the 6th grade at that time, while the school system in Davie County went through the 8th grade. At that time an 8th grade education was required to be admitted to a State University, and the man wanted his children to go to college.
Fundamental life skills or reading, writing, and arithmetic and the desire to obtain those skills is what powered the US in the 20th century.

Along with two World Wars, the Cold War, the GI Bill, cheap immigrant labor and cheap oil before 1973.

...and don't forget a very resource-rich geography, especially on a per capita basis!

Yep! GOD has truly blessed us all in many ways.