NCAA President Charlie Baker — “I share concerns about the impact that the recent spate of conference realignment activities will have on student-athletes’ well-being,” The recent conference moves highlight what I found during my review of the issues facing the NCAA – the growing gap between well-resourced Division I schools and the rest of the division is highly disruptive for all of D-I and college sports overall. I believe D-I university and college presidents, commissioners and the NCAA should work together to explore ways to address the impact this growing gap is having on student-athlete well-being and the competitive equity issues across the division.”

Of course - empty words. ESPN and other broadcasters now own the NCAA - certainly football and basketball. Of course the growing gap he talks about is obviously real. But, the NCAA is powerless to do anything about it. The trickle down to FCS, if even that survives under its present structure, is MONEY or the lack thereof as the super rich continue their consolidation of the money pot.

(08-08-2023 04:35 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  NCAA President Charlie Baker — “I share concerns about the impact that the recent spate of conference realignment activities will have on student-athletes’ well-being,” The recent conference moves highlight what I found during my review of the issues facing the NCAA – the growing gap between well-resourced Division I schools and the rest of the division is highly disruptive for all of D-I and college sports overall. I believe D-I university and college presidents, commissioners and the NCAA should work together to explore ways to address the impact this growing gap is having on student-athlete well-being and the competitive equity issues across the division.”

Of course - empty words. ESPN and other broadcasters now own the NCAA - certainly football and basketball. Of course the growing gap he talks about is obviously real. But, the NCAA is powerless to do anything about it. The trickle down to FCS, if even that survives under its present structure, is MONEY or the lack thereof as the super rich continue their consolidation of the money pot.

Agreed. But he is was right even though nothing was done about it. What is happening is very good for the very few in division 1 and not good for the majority.
We shall have to watch and see how it all evolves.

Obviously would hate to be Oregon St. and Washington St. right now. They spend a lot on football and have good fan bases. Yes, due to their relative size it appears that their only option is going to be the Mountain West as everyone else has left them behind.

It seems like everyone is against these recent moves except the athletic departments of teams who need a few million more money to "compete" which in reality simply means winning 2-3 additional football games each season.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...c-members/

Just reiterating what I have said before, if you don't play in the P5, no one cares. Sorry SBC, etc. you're. delusional if you think otherwise.

Non P5 fan bases do care about their teams. Your thinking fits right in with the talking heads that in many cases never played 1 min of FB, MBB, etc, at a higher level than HS.

To take a shot at the SunBelt is just proof of your lack of knowledge of the tremendous support by their fan bases and the rise of their credibility in College sports.

The greed that is has become prevalent by two conferences is destroying what college sports were intended to be. When 1000s of future students/athletes lose their opportunity to get a scholarship and 100s of smaller schools have to shutter their sports programs all because two conferences want all the money, I predict a backlash.

The Big 10 plus and the SEC have the same number of scholarships available as every other FBS school. So why do they continue to say they need more and more money to fund their programs. The cost is the same for the equipment, food, insurance, etc. When Texas admitted to spending $625, 000 recruiting 9 families and their football playing sons in one weekend, something is terribly wrong.. $35000 for ice sculptures. Their AD has a campaign to raise more money,. These two conferences and their top teams never have enough money. How much money can you spend on 85 football and 13 basketball.players and their coaching staffs. It's totat greed, ridiculous non essential spending and gross mismanagement.of student fees, ticket and donor money and TV revenues.

The two Big conferences have such a disparity in athlectic spending , that the idea the bottom half having any chance of winning their division is at best remote. Winning a National Championship, all but impossible. Yes they control the big money but they will have the most unhappy and disgruntled fan bases, a continuing coaching carousel, athletes transferring and overall poor to average performance from FB and MBB.

The current state of college athlectics is bad and getting worse. Conferences, rivalries, tradions are being destroyed by the arms race for the dollar. The current model is not sustainable. ESPN, one of the main culprits in ruining college sports is already in trouble, either laying off and not renewing contracts of hundreds of great workers and popular on-air personalities that led ESPN to the top of the Sports world. They are losing programming to other smaller networks because they don't have the money or the ratings they once commanded. In time the greed of the two big conferences will kill the golden goose.

The smaller FBS conferences should do just fine because they are growing, have strong fan bases and are not under pressure to spend like drunken sailors trying to win a National Championship that only a select few can ever win.

(08-09-2023 08:52 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  Non P5 fan bases do care about their teams. Your thinking fits right in with the talking heads that in many cases never played 1 min of FB, MBB, etc, at a higher level than HS.

To take a shot at the SunBelt is just proof of your lack of knowledge of the tremendous support by their fan bases and the rise of their credibility in College sports.

The greed that is has become prevalent by two conferences is destroying what college sports were intended to be. When 1000s of future students/athletes lose their opportunity to get a scholarship and 100s of smaller schools have to shutter their sports programs all because two conferences want all the money, I predict a backlash.

The Big 10 plus and the SEC have the same number of scholarships available as every other FBS school. So why do they continue to say they need more and more money to fund their programs. The cost is the same for the equipment, food, insurance, etc. When Texas admitted to spending $625, 000 recruiting 9 families and their football playing sons in one weekend, something is terribly wrong.. $35000 for ice sculptures. Their AD has a campaign to raise more money,. These two conferences and their top teams never have enough money. How much money can you spend on 85 football and 13 basketball.players and their coaching staffs. It's totat greed, ridiculous non essential spending and gross mismanagement.of student fees, ticket and donor money and TV revenues.

The two Big conferences have such a disparity in athlectic spending , that the idea the bottom half having any chance of winning their division is at best remote. Winning a National Championship, all but impossible. Yes they control the big money but they will have the most unhappy and disgruntled fan bases, a continuing coaching carousel, athletes transferring and overall poor to average performance from FB and MBB.

The current state of college athlectics is bad and getting worse. Conferences, rivalries, tradions are being destroyed by the arms race for the dollar. The current model is not sustainable. ESPN, one of the main culprits in ruining college sports is already in trouble, either laying off and not renewing contracts of hundreds of great workers and popular on-air personalities that led ESPN to the top of the Sports world. They are losing programming to other smaller networks because they don't have the money or the ratings they once commanded. In time the greed of the two big conferences will kill the golden goose.

The smaller FBS conferences should do just fine because they are growing, have strong fan bases and are not under pressure to spend like drunken sailors trying to win a National Championship that only a select few can ever win.

I thought it went without saying that each high school, college, or university had their own dedicated fan base. The post's intent was, that on the national stage, fans only follow P5. Otherwise you and I are singing from the same hymn book.

What is going to happen when the Alabama's and Texas's decide that they don't like giving an equal share to schools like Vandy or Mississippi State....This turmoil is just beginning I fear

(08-09-2023 08:52 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  Non P5 fan bases do care about their teams. Your thinking fits right in with the talking heads that in many cases never played 1 min of FB, MBB, etc, at a higher level than HS.

To take a shot at the SunBelt is just proof of your lack of knowledge of the tremendous support by their fan bases and the rise of their credibility in College sports.

The greed that is has become prevalent by two conferences is destroying what college sports were intended to be. When 1000s of future students/athletes lose their opportunity to get a scholarship and 100s of smaller schools have to shutter their sports programs all because two conferences want all the money, I predict a backlash.

The Big 10 plus and the SEC have the same number of scholarships available as every other FBS school. So why do they continue to say they need more and more money to fund their programs. The cost is the same for the equipment, food, insurance, etc. When Texas admitted to spending $625, 000 recruiting 9 families and their football playing sons in one weekend, something is terribly wrong.. $35000 for ice sculptures. Their AD has a campaign to raise more money,. These two conferences and their top teams never have enough money. How much money can you spend on 85 football and 13 basketball.players and their coaching staffs. It's totat greed, ridiculous non essential spending and gross mismanagement.of student fees, ticket and donor money and TV revenues.

The two Big conferences have such a disparity in athlectic spending , that the idea the bottom half having any chance of winning their division is at best remote. Winning a National Championship, all but impossible. Yes they control the big money but they will have the most unhappy and disgruntled fan bases, a continuing coaching carousel, athletes transferring and overall poor to average performance from FB and MBB.

The current state of college athlectics is bad and getting worse. Conferences, rivalries, tradions are being destroyed by the arms race for the dollar. The current model is not sustainable. ESPN, one of the main culprits in ruining college sports is already in trouble, either laying off and not renewing contracts of hundreds of great workers and popular on-air personalities that led ESPN to the top of the Sports world. They are losing programming to other smaller networks because they don't have the money or the ratings they once commanded. In time the greed of the two big conferences will kill the golden goose.

The smaller FBS conferences should do just fine because they are growing, have strong fan bases and are not under pressure to spend like drunken sailors trying to win a National Championship that only a select few can ever win.

I believe that Chip Kelly's suggestion that the 64 teams in Power 5 and the 64 teams in the Group of 5 be separate divisions (no conference affiliations) for football which compete for separate championships has a real chance to become reality at some point. Effectively, everyone would be independent in football (and ideally, only schedule teams on their same level). Then you could have regional conferences for the remaining sports. The only problem with this is that the TV contracts are negotiated through the conferences.

(08-09-2023 08:52 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  Non P5 fan bases do care about their teams. Your thinking fits right in with the talking heads that in many cases never played 1 min of FB, MBB, etc, at a higher level than HS.

To take a shot at the SunBelt is just proof of your lack of knowledge of the tremendous support by their fan bases and the rise of their credibility in College sports.

The greed that is has become prevalent by two conferences is destroying what college sports were intended to be. When 1000s of future students/athletes lose their opportunity to get a scholarship and 100s of smaller schools have to shutter their sports programs all because two conferences want all the money, I predict a backlash.

The Big 10 plus and the SEC have the same number of scholarships available as every other FBS school. So why do they continue to say they need more and more money to fund their programs. The cost is the same for the equipment, food, insurance, etc. When Texas admitted to spending $625, 000 recruiting 9 families and their football playing sons in one weekend, something is terribly wrong.. $35000 for ice sculptures. Their AD has a campaign to raise more money,. These two conferences and their top teams never have enough money. How much money can you spend on 85 football and 13 basketball.players and their coaching staffs. It's totat greed, ridiculous non essential spending and gross mismanagement.of student fees, ticket and donor money and TV revenues.

The two Big conferences have such a disparity in athlectic spending , that the idea the bottom half having any chance of winning their division is at best remote. Winning a National Championship, all but impossible. Yes they control the big money but they will have the most unhappy and disgruntled fan bases, a continuing coaching carousel, athletes transferring and overall poor to average performance from FB and MBB.

The current state of college athlectics is bad and getting worse. Conferences, rivalries, tradions are being destroyed by the arms race for the dollar. The current model is not sustainable. ESPN, one of the main culprits in ruining college sports is already in trouble, either laying off and not renewing contracts of hundreds of great workers and popular on-air personalities that led ESPN to the top of the Sports world. They are losing programming to other smaller networks because they don't have the money or the ratings they once commanded. In time the greed of the two big conferences will kill the golden goose.

The smaller FBS conferences should do just fine because they are growing, have strong fan bases and are not under pressure to spend like drunken sailors trying to win a National Championship that only a select few can ever win.

The schools we so often reference — App State, Marshall, GA Southern, James Madison — already had their fan bases before they moved up. They were primed. If ETSU had of built such a fan base as these, we would be playing them as a member of the SBC now. It just didn’t happen at ETSU because of numerous reasons — a big reason, ETSU did not establish a consistently winning program - certainly not championship caliber. And, that football culture in NE Tennessee — playing under that big orange shadow was and continues to be a handicap.

Absolutely agree — MONEY is now the driver of big time college football. Now, what is meant the smaller FBS conferences are growing? In money, fans, or both? As the big boys continue to distance themselves from them — there’s a time probably rapidly coming when they will separate entirely from them in football. Then they’ll fade into further obscurity along with the rest of college football. Then all football schools outside the Power Five, Four, then Two Divisions will essentially have only their local fan bases, donors, and student fess to support their football programs. Can that model be sustained long term? There’s no sign of a reform movement on the way among college presidents and boards of trustees to return college sports to their student-athlete, amateur days - certainly not in football and basketball. Blinded by money, these people do not seem to know what college sports were intended to be. In fact, too many of them do not even know what a college education was intended to be — certainly not for the traditional understanding of student-athlete. Hey — let’s call it what it is — big time college football has been corrupted by the love of MONEY. Coach Dennis Erickson on collapse of PAC-12 — “It's really, really sad to see. The thing that upsets me the most, besides the conference falling apart, the reasons for it. You got all these presidents that talk about academics and talk about loyalty and the bottom line is they move because of one thing … money”.

How about a new conference with Stanford, Cal, Oregon St, Washington St and ETSU? Need 3 more so let's add Hawaii, Oxford and the University of Tokyo.

(08-10-2023 02:58 PM)peppersbro Wrote:  What is going to happen when the Alabama's and Texas's decide that they don't like giving an equal share to schools like Vandy or Mississippi State....This turmoil is just beginning I fear

Well, that effectively already *has* happened in the ACC, but they re-negotiated revenue sharing for those who threatened to mutiny. The ACC already would have been ripped asunder if not for the long-term expiration date of their rights deal.

So yeah - it's certainly going to get worse before any potential for sanity returns.

Jim Henry - “College football is in turbulent state. Money just might be robbing the sport of its charm.”

Come on Jim, ya think?

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports...582009007/

As we've been saying...........

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/24/opinions/...index.html

(08-24-2023 12:19 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  As we've been saying...........

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/24/opinions/...index.html

All the saying ain’t changing the doing.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/24/ac...te-tv-deal

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/24/opinions/...index.html

One issue brought up about conference realignments is the impact on a lot of the non revenue sports. UCLA or the Washington Huskies might not have a problem with the extra travel expenses for a few football games, but stuff like womens volleyball that don't generate much if any revenue are a different story. Bigger schedules with more time on the road, even for top schools those expenses add up really fast.

I could see several possibilities. One is that non revenue sports remain affiliated with the older conferences to avoid added travel expenses. Another option is possibly some non revenue sports switching to other conferences. Maybe UCLA womens volleyball might affiliate with the Mountain West Conference so they don't have to travel all the way to Pennsylvania or New Jersey every year.

Not that travel along the west coast was cheap or easy for the Huskies or Bruins or Ducks, but for some games like Maryland, Rutgers, Pennsylvania, etc, that pretty much forces them to fly, possibly having to transfer planes along the way, and pretty much guarantees a number of games will require hotel stays. Even for a bigger school, that added expenses for airlines and possible hotel expenses can add up fast compared to Pac 12 schedule where some schools where close enough that a bus ride was an option, and some games could still see players sleeping in their own beds at the end of the day.

Another not impossible scenario, one or two bigger programs quietly axe a non revenue sport or two at some point we've seen this play out numerous times with other schools either eliminating sports or downgrading from Division I of the NCAA down to Division II or III. At one point in 2020 Stanford for example planned to axe 11 varsity sports. Closer to home, Vanderbilt cut mens soccer in 2005, and in the mid 1980s Tennessee cut mens wrestling.

A degree of stability close to home could benefit the SoCon going forward. ETSU isn't gonna necessarily make headlines with our womens volleyball program and their mid major schedule. But they're also not gonna break the bank with some really obsurd travel expenses or the physical and mental impact on the players.

(08-25-2023 01:07 AM)ETSUfan#2 Wrote:  https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/24/opinions/...index.html

One issue brought up about conference realignments is the impact on a lot of the non revenue sports. UCLA or the Washington Huskies might not have a problem with the extra travel expenses for a few football games, but stuff like womens volleyball that don't generate much if any revenue are a different story. Bigger schedules with more time on the road, even for top schools those expenses add up really fast.

I could see several possibilities. One is that non revenue sports remain affiliated with the older conferences to avoid added travel expenses. Another option is possibly some non revenue sports switching to other conferences. Maybe UCLA womens volleyball might affiliate with the Mountain West Conference so they don't have to travel all the way to Pennsylvania or New Jersey every year.

Not that travel along the west coast was cheap or easy for the Huskies or Bruins or Ducks, but for some games like Maryland, Rutgers, Pennsylvania, etc, that pretty much forces them to fly, possibly having to transfer planes along the way, and pretty much guarantees a number of games will require hotel stays. Even for a bigger school, that added expenses for airlines and possible hotel expenses can add up fast compared to Pac 12 schedule where some schools where close enough that a bus ride was an option, and some games could still see players sleeping in their own beds at the end of the day.

Another not impossible scenario, one or two bigger programs quietly axe a non revenue sport or two at some point we've seen this play out numerous times with other schools either eliminating sports or downgrading from Division I of the NCAA down to Division II or III. At one point in 2020 Stanford for example planned to axe 11 varsity sports. Closer to home, Vanderbilt cut mens soccer in 2005, and in the mid 1980s Tennessee cut mens wrestling.

A degree of stability close to home could benefit the SoCon going forward. ETSU isn't gonna necessarily make headlines with our womens volleyball program and their mid major schedule. But they're also not gonna break the bank with some really obsurd travel expenses or the physical and mental impact on the players.

Yea — the above article suggests mega football only conferences-divisions and regional conferences for the other sports. But, whatever this evolves into, the hypocrisy of it is staggering. These presidents, athletic directors, coaches, and the NCAA have the nerve to keep talking about what is best for the “student-athlete”. Give us a break! The media has taken control of big time college football and to an extent, college basketball. And everyone on the planet knows what’s driving this bus — MONEY. As for the little people — that being the SoCon with relation to ETSU, can models with integrity and honor, like the one being put in place by Doc Sander, gain support and be followed by a fan base that cares about such things?

Please - dispense with this “best athletic and academic experience for our student athletes” bull ****.




Jim Phillips. "Throughout the evaluation process, the ACC Board of Directors, led by President Ryan, was deliberate in prioritizing the best possible athletic and academic experience for our student-athletes“.


https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...ino-falls/

So for those not following, the ACC, Atlantic Coast Conference, has extended invites to Pac whatever members Stanford and Cal, and also decided Southern Methodist University in Texas might be decent and invited them in.

What as few months ago was the Pac 12 has been reduced to the Oregon State Beavers and Washington State Cougars. There had been speculation of both teams going to the AAC conference, but the AAC apparently decided neither team really made a good fit.

At this point there seems to be a few options for the two remaining Pac 12 schools, in no particular order.

1. Hope that one or more of the Power 4 Conferences extend them an invite. That seems highly unlikely at this point. The SEC is the only Power 4 conference that hasn't helped carve up the Pac 12 faster then a Thanksgiving turkey, but aside from the occasional non conference game, I don't see any value in the SEC bringing those two schools aboard. The Big Ten, Big 12, and ACC have already grabbed everyone else in the Pac 12, so at this point I kinda don't see them making moves towards either school.

2. Not heavily suggested, but there is of course the option of going the Independent route. This might favor Oregon State better then Washington State. Neither school was a power program in the Pac 12 or nationally, always being more of an "also ran" type program then elite programs, though Oregon State does have one of the best baseball teams west of the Mississippi with 3 separate national championships over the last 20 years. Washington State, aside from a few odd Rose Bowl appearances decades ago, hasn't really done much of anything in any sport. In 1941 they where the NCAA Runner-up in basketball and made a Sweet Sixteen appearance in 2008. ETSU basketball has more overall NCAA tourny appearances, even if all but 2 of those where 1 and done deals. The Cougars might as well cancel their athletics department if they go the independent route.

3. Oregon State and Washington State from what I'm hearing right now seem to be trying to stick together as the last two standing. If they don't want the Pac 12 or whatever to fade into the history books, there's always the possibility that they could form the core of a new Pac whatever and get schools from other conferences to join what would essentially be a brand new conference. A Pac 12 or whatever in name only.

4. The big one and what might in some ways ironically be the best option, make arrangements to join up with the Mountain West Conference. Having two old school Power conference schools winding up in one of the so called Group of 5 conferences would be perhaps not unheard of but an extremely rare occurance. This could be a sobering experience for other Power 4 conference programs. The SEC for example isn't gonna fold up and die anytime soon for example, but a lot of SEC school fans probably wouldn't care if say Vanderbilt and/or Mississippi State get tossed to the Sunbelt Conference if it would let them trim the fat to help the stronger schools, or to make room for some more appealing new schools.

(09-03-2023 11:10 AM)ETSUfan#2 Wrote:  So for those not following, the ACC, Atlantic Coast Conference, has extended invites to Pac whatever members Stanford and Cal, and also decided Southern Methodist University in Texas might be decent and invited them in.

What as few months ago was the Pac 12 has been reduced to the Oregon State Beavers and Washington State Cougars. There had been speculation of both teams going to the AAC conference, but the AAC apparently decided neither team really made a good fit.

At this point there seems to be a few options for the two remaining Pac 12 schools, in no particular order.

1. Hope that one or more of the Power 4 Conferences extend them an invite. That seems highly unlikely at this point. The SEC is the only Power 4 conference that hasn't helped carve up the Pac 12 faster then a Thanksgiving turkey, but aside from the occasional non conference game, I don't see any value in the SEC bringing those two schools aboard. The Big Ten, Big 12, and ACC have already grabbed everyone else in the Pac 12, so at this point I kinda don't see them making moves towards either school.

2. Not heavily suggested, but there is of course the option of going the Independent route. This might favor Oregon State better then Washington State. Neither school was a power program in the Pac 12 or nationally, always being more of an "also ran" type program then elite programs, though Oregon State does have one of the best baseball teams west of the Mississippi with 3 separate national championships over the last 20 years. Washington State, aside from a few odd Rose Bowl appearances decades ago, hasn't really done much of anything in any sport. In 1941 they where the NCAA Runner-up in basketball and made a Sweet Sixteen appearance in 2008. ETSU basketball has more overall NCAA tourny appearances, even if all but 2 of those where 1 and done deals. The Cougars might as well cancel their athletics department if they go the independent route.

3. Oregon State and Washington State from what I'm hearing right now seem to be trying to stick together as the last two standing. If they don't want the Pac 12 or whatever to fade into the history books, there's always the possibility that they could form the core of a new Pac whatever and get schools from other conferences to join what would essentially be a brand new conference. A Pac 12 or whatever in name only.

4. The big one and what might in some ways ironically be the best option, make arrangements to join up with the Mountain West Conference. Having two old school Power conference schools winding up in one of the so called Group of 5 conferences would be perhaps not unheard of but an extremely rare occurance. This could be a sobering experience for other Power 4 conference programs. The SEC for example isn't gonna fold up and die anytime soon for example, but a lot of SEC school fans probably wouldn't care if say Vanderbilt and/or Mississippi State get tossed to the Sunbelt Conference if it would let them trim the fat to help the stronger schools, or to make room for some more appealing new schools.

Do you think the Mountain West would be willing to merge with OSU and WSU and change to the name to PAC?