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SEC EXPANSION
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Buc66 Offline
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SEC EXPANSION
What does this mean for the FCS conferences, if anything? Does the Southern Conference have anyone targeted for expansion? What’s the future of the SoCon?




https://www.burntorangenation.com/2021/7...-12-buyout


https://theathletic.com/live-blogs/oklah...DgtCNpx3ut


Realignment rumors: SEC will overwhelmingly approve Texas, OU

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/realignme...e-texas-ou
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2021 06:49 PM by Buc66.)
07-23-2021 06:14 PM
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NC88 Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
I've heard of the possibility of VMI moving back to the Big South. Not sure if there's any life to it. I've also heard that NC Central and Norfolk State may consider a move to the Big South. Hampton and NC A&T joined the Big South, also It would make sense though for a school like Kennesaw State to move to the SoCon. The ASUN seems to be expanding father West. I think they'd be a good addition to the SoCon, especially in football. Although their basketball team sucks.
07-25-2021 08:22 AM
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The Cats Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-25-2021 08:22 AM)NC88 Wrote:  I've heard of the possibility of VMI moving back to the Big South. Not sure if there's any life to it. I've also heard that NC Central and Norfolk State may consider a move to the Big South. Hampton and NC A&T joined the Big South, also It would make sense though for a school like Kennesaw State to move to the SoCon. The ASUN seems to be expanding father West. I think they'd be a good addition to the SoCon, especially in football. Although their basketball team sucks.

NC88, what happened to the UNCA message board? is there another one?
07-26-2021 07:17 AM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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SEC EXPANSION
The SoCon has one if the premiere media deals in FCS land. (Ivy has the best) so if the member universities want someone, there's a list of schools that probably say yes. Then the question, how many to add. Belmont, Morehead St, and CoC offer bball without disrupting football scheduling.

If I'm running the show I'm on the horn with Howard and Belmont. Increases the FB membership by one, but Howard is a fantastic school and the snobs at Furman and Wofford probably would love the added upper crust.
07-27-2021 01:05 PM
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Buckyball Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
Your information is incorrect….Morehead St. has football, so they would disrupt the football schedule. Don’t see any advantage to the SoCon in adding them….no media market, facilities aren’t great, and they are in the middle of nowhere. And there’s not much reason for them to leave the OVC as it is currently.

Belmont is a different story. Big media market, really nice facilities, great recruiting trip, Vince Gill and Amy Grant at games. Am I missing something?
(07-27-2021 01:05 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  The SoCon has one if the premiere media deals in FCS land. (Ivy has the best) so if the member universities want someone, there's a list of schools that probably say yes. Then the question, how many to add. Belmont, Morehead St, and CoC offer bball without disrupting football scheduling.

If I'm running the show I'm on the horn with Howard and Belmont. Increases the FB membership by one, but Howard is a fantastic school and the snobs at Furman and Wofford probably would love the added upper crust.
07-27-2021 04:56 PM
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MercerFan Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
For Belmont, I guess it depends on how the league feels about UNCG? I know Belmont well from the ASun days, just like ETSU does. Great school. But do the football schools in the SoCon feel ok with non football schools (UNCG)? Obviously we are fine with UNCG, but do we want more? Does a school have a basketball advantage when they don’t have to fund football? I could argue both sides. It depends how the SoCon feels on it.
07-28-2021 08:33 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-28-2021 08:33 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  For Belmont, I guess it depends on how the league feels about UNCG? I know Belmont well from the ASun days, just like ETSU does. Great school. But do the football schools in the SoCon feel ok with non football schools (UNCG)? Obviously we are fine with UNCG, but do we want more? Does a school have a basketball advantage when they don’t have to fund football? I could argue both sides. It depends how the SoCon feels on it.

Boy, old memories. When ETSU dropped football, the SoCon took a hard line and essentially kicked us out. Of course, much of that was due to the stumbling-bumbling of the Stanton-Mullins regime at the time. Of course this is a new day in the rapidly changing landscape of college athletics. The SoCon was at or near the top of FCS football back in the day. There is more emphasis on basketball now as football has declined, and a school like Belmont would fit that.
07-29-2021 07:43 AM
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Mister Consistency Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-27-2021 04:56 PM)Buckyball Wrote:  Your information is incorrect….Morehead St. has football, so they would disrupt the football schedule. Don’t see any advantage to the SoCon in adding them….no media market, facilities aren’t great, and they are in the middle of nowhere. And there’s not much reason for them to leave the OVC as it is currently.

Morehead State offers non-scholarship football, so they would almost assuredly keep FB in the Pioneer League if they left the OVC for another conference. But it's a moot point, because, as you rightly point out, they don't have much value to a potential new conference.

(07-28-2021 08:33 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  For Belmont, I guess it depends on how the league feels about UNCG? I know Belmont well from the ASun days, just like ETSU does. Great school. But do the football schools in the SoCon feel ok with non football schools (UNCG)? Obviously we are fine with UNCG, but do we want more? Does a school have a basketball advantage when they don’t have to fund football? I could argue both sides. It depends how the SoCon feels on it.

Adding more non-football schools isn't a deal-breaker for me. Nine feels like the right number in FCS with an 8/3 split on conference games vs. non-conference. If we added a 10th, would we go to 9 conference games and keep the true round robin? That has its own set of pros and cons. Adding non-football schools that can make the league better in basketball sidesteps that entirely.

Mostly, though, I think Belmont is the only school you could get everyone in the league to agree on. From there, it's more about whether everyone is comfortable expanding just to 11 or if there's an appetite for 12. If the best options are, say, Winthrop and Austin Peay, is it worth doing?
07-29-2021 01:41 PM
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GoBucsGo Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-29-2021 01:41 PM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  
(07-27-2021 04:56 PM)Buckyball Wrote:  Your information is incorrect….Morehead St. has football, so they would disrupt the football schedule. Don’t see any advantage to the SoCon in adding them….no media market, facilities aren’t great, and they are in the middle of nowhere. And there’s not much reason for them to leave the OVC as it is currently.

Morehead State offers non-scholarship football, so they would almost assuredly keep FB in the Pioneer League if they left the OVC for another conference. But it's a moot point, because, as you rightly point out, they don't have much value to a potential new conference.

(07-28-2021 08:33 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  For Belmont, I guess it depends on how the league feels about UNCG? I know Belmont well from the ASun days, just like ETSU does. Great school. But do the football schools in the SoCon feel ok with non football schools (UNCG)? Obviously we are fine with UNCG, but do we want more? Does a school have a basketball advantage when they don’t have to fund football? I could argue both sides. It depends how the SoCon feels on it.

Adding more non-football schools isn't a deal-breaker for me. Nine feels like the right number in FCS with an 8/3 split on conference games vs. non-conference. If we added a 10th, would we go to 9 conference games and keep the true round robin? That has its own set of pros and cons. Adding non-football schools that can make the league better in basketball sidesteps that entirely.

Mostly, though, I think Belmont is the only school you could get everyone in the league to agree on. From there, it's more about whether everyone is comfortable expanding just to 11 or if there's an appetite for 12. If the best options are, say, Winthrop and Austin Peay, is it worth doing?

If the SoCon is to expand, Kennesaw State makes the most sense as an addition. We already travel through Atlanta on the way to Mercer anyway as does everyone else (except Citadel). Quality football & baseball programs, at least in the past (on baseball), and I get it - basketball isn't great, but you never know, that may improve. Having a piece of the Atlanta media market makes sense and I like adding another state school to the mix, versus adding a private institution. I have no inside info on this, but I don't think the SoCon has any interest in adding another non-football school.

If Morehead State wants to add scholarships, I'm sure they'll go to the OVC, with all of their other sports, or I assume they would. I really don't see how they are saving money being in the Pioneer with all of that travel (U of San Diego is in their league!).
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2021 02:31 PM by GoBucsGo.)
07-29-2021 02:27 PM
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The Cats Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-29-2021 07:43 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(07-28-2021 08:33 PM)MercerFan Wrote:  For Belmont, I guess it depends on how the league feels about UNCG? I know Belmont well from the ASun days, just like ETSU does. Great school. But do the football schools in the SoCon feel ok with non football schools (UNCG)? Obviously we are fine with UNCG, but do we want more? Does a school have a basketball advantage when they don’t have to fund football? I could argue both sides. It depends how the SoCon feels on it.

Boy, old memories. When ETSU dropped football, the SoCon took a hard line and essentially kicked us out. Of course, much of that was due to the stumbling-bumbling of the Stanton-Mullins regime at the time. Of course this is a new day in the rapidly changing landscape of college athletics. The SoCon was at or near the top of FCS football back in the day. There is more emphasis on basketball now as football has declined, and a school like Belmont would fit that.

My, how our memories fail. The reason the SoCon took a hard stand against ETSU when they dropped football is that ETSU led the charge against dropping Davidson when they stopped playing a SoCon football schedule. Remember now?
07-30-2021 07:27 AM
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
The SoCon is a one bid NCAA basketball conference with most of its revenue coming from that source. It is unlikely the P5s will hand out another bid to the SoCon. Why would the existing members want to expand and divide the tourney revenues 12 or 14 ways instead of 10?

Some would argue to increase media markets. Belmont averages around 2500 fans per game at basketball, not much media exposure there. Not much better at Kennesaw, etc. The adding a media market argument doesn't seem to hold up.

07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2021 11:25 AM by BucDoctor.)
07-30-2021 11:25 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-30-2021 11:25 AM)BucDoctor Wrote:  The SoCon is a one bid NCAA basketball conference with most of its revenue coming from that source. It is unlikely the P5s will hand out another bid to the SoCon. Why would the existing members want to expand and divide the tourney revenues 12 or 14 ways instead of 10?

Some would argue to increase media markets. Belmont averages around 2500 fans per game at basketball, not much media exposure there. Not much better at Kennesaw, etc. The adding a media market argument doesn't seem to hold up.

07-coffee3

Do you think that this ASUN football movement is reaching out to ETSU, Chattanooga, and Western Carolina? From what you’re saying, moving over there for football would cost too much in basketball. As for NCAA Division I basketball — as these mega Power 5, maybe 4 conferences emerge, will DI basketball and March Madness survive as we know it now.
07-30-2021 01:08 PM
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The Cats Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-30-2021 01:08 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(07-30-2021 11:25 AM)BucDoctor Wrote:  The SoCon is a one bid NCAA basketball conference with most of its revenue coming from that source. It is unlikely the P5s will hand out another bid to the SoCon. Why would the existing members want to expand and divide the tourney revenues 12 or 14 ways instead of 10?

Some would argue to increase media markets. Belmont averages around 2500 fans per game at basketball, not much media exposure there. Not much better at Kennesaw, etc. The adding a media market argument doesn't seem to hold up.

07-coffee3

Do you think that this ASUN football movement is reaching out to ETSU, Chattanooga, and Western Carolina? From what you’re saying, moving over there for football would cost too much in basketball. As for NCAA Division I basketball — as these mega Power 5, maybe 4 conferences emerge, will DI basketball and March Madness survive as we know it now.

The ASUN has been reaching out to UTC since they started thinking about football. especially with UNA and KSU in their rolls. They were hoping that if the Mocs moved, ETSU and WCU might just make the move as well, giving the ASUN 8 football schools.

However, the Mocs didn't (or haven't yet) take the bate. It would be a terrible move for UTC/ETSU basketball. The ASUN comes in ranked at #26 in men's basketball, while the SoCon comes in at #9.
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2021 02:35 PM by The Cats.)
07-30-2021 02:35 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
Mark Emmart on the special NCAA constitutional meeting in Nov:

“We need to stay focused on the thing that matters most — helping students be as successful as they can be as both students and athletes."

That’s one of the most hilarious statements of the week, including those coming out of the SEC, Texas, and Oklahoma.
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2021 04:44 PM by Buc66.)
07-30-2021 04:43 PM
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-30-2021 02:35 PM)The Cats Wrote:  
(07-30-2021 01:08 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(07-30-2021 11:25 AM)BucDoctor Wrote:  The SoCon is a one bid NCAA basketball conference with most of its revenue coming from that source. It is unlikely the P5s will hand out another bid to the SoCon. Why would the existing members want to expand and divide the tourney revenues 12 or 14 ways instead of 10?

Some would argue to increase media markets. Belmont averages around 2500 fans per game at basketball, not much media exposure there. Not much better at Kennesaw, etc. The adding a media market argument doesn't seem to hold up.

07-coffee3

Do you think that this ASUN football movement is reaching out to ETSU, Chattanooga, and Western Carolina? From what you’re saying, moving over there for football would cost too much in basketball. As for NCAA Division I basketball — as these mega Power 5, maybe 4 conferences emerge, will DI basketball and March Madness survive as we know it now.

The ASUN has been reaching out to UTC since they started thinking about football. especially with UNA and KSU in their rolls. They were hoping that if the Mocs moved, ETSU and WCU might just make the move as well, giving the ASUN 8 football schools.

However, the Mocs didn't (or haven't yet) take the bate. It would be a terrible move for UTC/ETSU basketball. The ASUN comes in ranked at #26 in men's basketball, while the SoCon comes in at #9.

When ETSU went from the SoCon to the ASun, without football travel costs went up $750,000. I realize the footprint of the Sun has changed but...
(This post was last modified: 07-30-2021 05:55 PM by BucDoctor.)
07-30-2021 05:51 PM
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Mister Consistency Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
(07-29-2021 02:27 PM)GoBucsGo Wrote:  If the SoCon is to expand, Kennesaw State makes the most sense as an addition. We already travel through Atlanta on the way to Mercer anyway as does everyone else (except Citadel). Quality football & baseball programs, at least in the past (on baseball), and I get it - basketball isn't great, but you never know, that may improve. Having a piece of the Atlanta media market makes sense and I like adding another state school to the mix, versus adding a private institution. I have no inside info on this, but I don't think the SoCon has any interest in adding another non-football school.

If we could get Kennesaw State for football only, I would be all for it. Their other sports are a complete non-starter. I don't think it's in any way urgent to add the 143rd best baseball program in the country. Which underscores my point - Belmont is the only school everyone would agree on. It makes MBB better, doesn't break the bank for travel, and it's a private school. Something in there for everyone. The SoCon could even go to 20 conference games and probably get a better home opponent out of Belmont than anything they'd get in OOC play.

Shot in the dark here - if the SoCon goes to 12, I think it's Belmont and Austin Peay. There is scuttlebutt that APSU is exploring its options on a possible exit from the OVC. Whether they and/or Belmont got wind that Murray State is finally leaving for the MVC or what, I don't know, but their options are basically the SoCon and the ASUN. It's a public/private combo, improves MBB and football is about a wash with KSU despite some coaching turbulence. But I don't think the SoCon has to make a move this time around like it did when it brought us back in.
08-01-2021 10:22 AM
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
I'd be all for Belmont and Austin Peay. Heck, i'm just ready for some new blood in the conference period
08-02-2021 09:07 AM
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
Furman fan here, just throwing my two cents in. The SoCon has to do something to stay relevant, and that is not in football. Soon, NCAA football will be dissolved for the big schools, which means the rest of the teams will divided into new classes. Will the SoCon teams moved up to the middle class to stay relevant, or move down? Can many of the SoCon teams survive in football without the revenue from playing a P5 team? I think not. So, the question will not be about expanding the conference with football leading the way. It will be about survival itself. Let's be honest, FCS football is a money loser and is no longer relevant. It's time to expand the league, but expand it with better basketball schools.

By the way, I attended a game in 2019 in your wonderful facility. What an atmosphere. I hated losing, but left with a sense that it was a privilege to have attended that game, surrounded by very nice ETSU students and fans. It was a great experience. ETSU basketball has a great tradition, one that you can be proud of. I still remember when your highly ranked team of years ago came into the "Brown Box" and we beat you. It was one of the best games ever. We peaked at that game, lost 4 of the next 5, and was one and done in the tournament. But, I will never forget the electric atmosphere at the game. Good luck to ETSU this year. Here is to hoping COVID doesn't blow up our football and basketball season again this year.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2021 09:43 AM by Roundball.)
08-04-2021 08:21 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
Fewer money games for FCS schools? Can FCS football survive without the money games? Will NCAA governance of college football survive?



https://apnews.com/article/sports-colleg...a311923295
08-17-2021 06:12 PM
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RE: SEC EXPANSION
The ACC, SEC, etc. should not be playing money games against FCS opponents. I believe that in the very near future, our "money games" will be against teams in the Sun Belt, Conference USA, etc. There will be fewer of these to go around, and many FCS football programs will either have to have substantial financial support from the community, cut expenses, or fold. An alternative for FCS programs would be to cut the number of athletic programs offered. I'm sure that ETSU is preparing contingency plans for this reality.
08-18-2021 07:55 AM
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