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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #1
New Realignment Thread
Well, it's getting closer to that time when current contracts, TV/streaming deals and more will be expiring. With all the changes coming thru things like NIL and talks of division restructuring and loosening rules for conferences and players, seems about right that this was reported today:

Exclusive: Texas, Oklahoma reach out to SEC about joining conference


One thing seems rather clear: instead of working hard to improve its athletic fortunes since being relegated in the last wave of realignment, Rice has fallen even further behind by regressing in the big 3 mens' sports, which are the only ones that really count when it comes to realignment is seems from all past experience.

Strange to remember and contemplate when Arkansas left the SWC and wanted Rice as its partner, and Rice seemed to have had a few votes lined up in its favor but chose not to pursue excellence and remain with peer-level schools. Will this be the realignment that finally kicks Rice out of Div I altogether? Would be a shame.
07-21-2021 07:08 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #2
Exclamation RE: New Realignment Thread
The Big 12’s TV contract with ESPN and Fox expires in 2025, as do many of the other big conference contracts.
07-21-2021 07:09 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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RE: New Realignment Thread
Of course, for Rice, somehow maneuvering to re-aligning with the remains of the Big XII would be a big step up in both prestige and revenue, not to mention, more appropriate peer schools, renewing several historical rivalries, and with the exception of WVU, more regional travel and fan interest. For those schools, adding a school in the Houston market to come and play games would actually make a lot of sense, unlike many other major conference situations:

Baylor
Texas Tech
TCU
OKST
Kansas
Kansas St
Iowa St
WVU
Rice* (possibly, maybe, hopefully, please)
Whoever else they can get who is leftover when music stops

IMO, should any level of interest be extended towards Rice, the school should say yes no matter what and take its chances. even bottom-dwelling among those schools would improve and stabilize our situation far better than where we find ourselves today. Maybe that EZF investment would make a whole lot better return. Still would need to be willing to invest some real non-donor university dollars to do major renovations to HRS, which was kid of the problem the last time we had a chance to actually improve our position by moving conferences. Will we learn from past mistakes, or just let the winds blow us wherever we settle and not make the effort?
07-21-2021 07:19 PM
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Ranger Offline
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Post: #4
RE: New Realignment Thread
I think the two best conferences are the SEC and Pac 12. The train seems to have left the station on the SEC.. Maybe the Pac will expand to 16. It is pretty far away but ..... They could use a Texas school, and they have a lot more academically oriented schools. Stanford, Cal, UCLA, UW. Maybe we could be the Texas school. Can JK work magic. Leebron will sit on his hands, but maybe some of the BOT could get involved.
07-21-2021 08:17 PM
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Post: #5
RE: New Realignment Thread
If it comes to that, my wild guess is that the Coogers will finally get their chance to enter into the not-so-Big 12 (given the fact that the veto power of UT has been removed). If that happens, then we need to do whatever it takes, get out checkbooks, I don’t know, any kind of pressure we can, to get into the American Conference. . Of course SMU will be vying for the same spot as UH. Either one of them, I’d be glad to take their place in the AAC. That should be something that appears to be a bit more realistic at this point
07-21-2021 08:28 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #6
Exclamation RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-21-2021 08:28 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  If it comes to that, my wild guess is that the Coogers will finally get their chance to enter into the not-so-Big 12 (given the fact that the veto power of UT has been removed). If that happens, then we need to do whatever it takes, get out checkbooks, I don’t know, any kind of pressure we can, to get into the American Conference. . Of course SMU will be vying for the same spot as UH. Either one of them, I’d be glad to take their place in the AAC. That should be something that appears to be a bit more realistic at this point

So, more realistic to hope for is an AAC with:
ECU
Tulane
USF
Tulsa
Temple
Rice* (and that's onlyIF they want us--which these schools most certainly did not last time we had a "chance" to be in AAC)
and whoever else they can get from leftovers,
maybe:
Appy State
UTSA
one or two of FI/AU?

Wow. That's almost as disappointing as where we are now.

Long way to go, but these things require we take action ahead of time and get our "Sandwich Boards outmade (since we adamantly were against using them last time, remember?)

I guess it's the ol' SWC guy in me that still hopes to reunite with at least some of the smaller schools from that bunch during this round. Wonder who else would be willing to come to that group that would actually help it be better than where we find ourselves at the moment?

I'd rather dream about the BigXII leftover lottery ticket for a while.
07-21-2021 10:17 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-21-2021 10:17 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 08:28 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  If it comes to that, my wild guess is that the Coogers will finally get their chance to enter into the not-so-Big 12 (given the fact that the veto power of UT has been removed). If that happens, then we need to do whatever it takes, get out checkbooks, I don’t know, any kind of pressure we can, to get into the American Conference. . Of course SMU will be vying for the same spot as UH. Either one of them, I’d be glad to take their place in the AAC. That should be something that appears to be a bit more realistic at this point

So, more realistic to hope for is an AAC with:
ECU
Tulane
USF
Tulsa
Temple
Rice* (and that's onlyIF they want us--which these schools most certainly did not last time we had a "chance" to be in AAC)
and whoever else they can get from leftovers,
maybe:
Appy State
UTSA
one or two of FI/AU?

Wow. That's almost as disappointing as where we are now.

Long way to go, but these things require we take action ahead of time and get our "Sandwich Boards outmade (since we adamantly were against using them last time, remember?)

I guess it's the ol' SWC guy in me that still hopes to reunite with at least some of the smaller schools from that bunch during this round. Wonder who else would be willing to come to that group that would actually help it be better than where we find ourselves at the moment?

I'd rather dream about the BigXII leftover lottery ticket for a while.

More desirable for the AAC than Rice (probably others, too):

UAB
Florida Atlantic
Louisiana
UTSA
Coastal Carolina
Appalachian State
Old Dominion
07-21-2021 10:33 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #8
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-21-2021 10:33 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:17 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 08:28 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  If it comes to that, my wild guess is that the Coogers will finally get their chance to enter into the not-so-Big 12 (given the fact that the veto power of UT has been removed). If that happens, then we need to do whatever it takes, get out checkbooks, I don’t know, any kind of pressure we can, to get into the American Conference. . Of course SMU will be vying for the same spot as UH. Either one of them, I’d be glad to take their place in the AAC. That should be something that appears to be a bit more realistic at this point

So, more realistic to hope for is an AAC with:
ECU
Tulane
USF
Tulsa
Temple
Rice* (and that's onlyIF they want us--which these schools most certainly did not last time we had a "chance" to be in AAC)
and whoever else they can get from leftovers,
maybe:
Appy State
UTSA
one or two of FI/AU?

Wow. That's almost as disappointing as where we are now.

Long way to go, but these things require we take action ahead of time and get our "Sandwich Boards outmade (since we adamantly were against using them last time, remember?)

I guess it's the ol' SWC guy in me that still hopes to reunite with at least some of the smaller schools from that bunch during this round. Wonder who else would be willing to come to that group that would actually help it be better than where we find ourselves at the moment?

I'd rather dream about the BigXII leftover lottery ticket for a while.

More desirable for the AAC than Rice (probably others, too):

UAB
Florida Atlantic
Louisiana
UTSA
Coastal Carolina
Appalachian State
Old Dominion

Very true. Can’t think of a conference that w truly love to have Rice as a member. Sure, wherever Rice ends up, the schools will publicly talk about how great it is to have school of Rice’s academic stature, but what would Rice bring athleticly to almost any conference other than an easy conference win?

Not dominating or even being competitive in CUSA version whatever we’re up to will bite Rice in the behind in the next realignment wave.
07-21-2021 11:37 PM
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MerseyOwl Offline
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Post: #9
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-21-2021 11:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:33 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:17 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 08:28 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  If it comes to that, my wild guess is that the Coogers will finally get their chance to enter into the not-so-Big 12 (given the fact that the veto power of UT has been removed). If that happens, then we need to do whatever it takes, get out checkbooks, I don’t know, any kind of pressure we can, to get into the American Conference. . Of course SMU will be vying for the same spot as UH. Either one of them, I’d be glad to take their place in the AAC. That should be something that appears to be a bit more realistic at this point

So, more realistic to hope for is an AAC with:
ECU
Tulane
USF
Tulsa
Temple
Rice* (and that's onlyIF they want us--which these schools most certainly did not last time we had a "chance" to be in AAC)
and whoever else they can get from leftovers,
maybe:
Appy State
UTSA
one or two of FI/AU?

Wow. That's almost as disappointing as where we are now.

Long way to go, but these things require we take action ahead of time and get our "Sandwich Boards outmade (since we adamantly were against using them last time, remember?)

I guess it's the ol' SWC guy in me that still hopes to reunite with at least some of the smaller schools from that bunch during this round. Wonder who else would be willing to come to that group that would actually help it be better than where we find ourselves at the moment?

I'd rather dream about the BigXII leftover lottery ticket for a while.

More desirable for the AAC than Rice (probably others, too):

UAB
Florida Atlantic
Louisiana
UTSA
Coastal Carolina
Appalachian State
Old Dominion

Very true. Can’t think of a conference that w truly love to have Rice as a member. Sure, wherever Rice ends up, the schools will publicly talk about how great it is to have school of Rice’s academic stature, but what would Rice bring athleticly to almost any conference other than an easy conference win?

Not dominating or even being competitive in CUSA version whatever we’re up to will bite Rice in the behind in the next realignment wave.

I thought TCU hated our guts or is my failing memory failing again.

(Our current athletic profile is closer to the WAC than the SEC, PAC, or BIG12. Any further degradation and it's hello Southland.)
07-22-2021 02:03 AM
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Post: #10
RE: New Realignment Thread
I think the NCAA needs to either put up or shut up.

If we are collegiate athletes, using athletics to promote scholarship, then lets be that. If instead we are money-makers (which is what the NCAA has let this become) then we are professionals and have no connection to academics or scholarship.

You can have a scholarship or you can get paid as an individual. If you get paid as an individual then you can pay for college... at least on the same sliding scale as everyone else who 'works', and you don't compete for the Institution that you attend. If UT et all want to contract with this semi-pro team, some of whom attend classes, they certainly can.... but they are NOT 'student-athletes'. They are athletes, who may or may not be students.

The farce needs to end
07-22-2021 09:40 AM
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RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 09:40 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I think the NCAA needs to either put up or shut up.
If we are collegiate athletes, using athletics to promote scholarship, then lets be that. If instead we are money-makers (which is what the NCAA has let this become) then we are professionals and have no connection to academics or scholarship.
You can have a scholarship or you can get paid as an individual. If you get paid as an individual then you can pay for college... at least on the same sliding scale as everyone else who 'works', and you don't compete for the Institution that you attend. If UT et all want to contract with this semi-pro team, some of whom attend classes, they certainly can.... but they are NOT 'student-athletes'. They are athletes, who may or may not be students.
The farce needs to end

Spot on! +3
07-22-2021 09:42 AM
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Post: #12
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 09:42 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 09:40 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I think the NCAA needs to either put up or shut up.
If we are collegiate athletes, using athletics to promote scholarship, then lets be that. If instead we are money-makers (which is what the NCAA has let this become) then we are professionals and have no connection to academics or scholarship.
You can have a scholarship or you can get paid as an individual. If you get paid as an individual then you can pay for college... at least on the same sliding scale as everyone else who 'works', and you don't compete for the Institution that you attend. If UT et all want to contract with this semi-pro team, some of whom attend classes, they certainly can.... but they are NOT 'student-athletes'. They are athletes, who may or may not be students.
The farce needs to end

Spot on! +3

agree

Since the NCAA is a toothless old dog, they will end up shutting up, then shutting down.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 09:56 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
07-22-2021 09:48 AM
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Pimpa Offline
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Post: #13
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 02:03 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 11:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:33 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 10:17 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 08:28 PM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  If it comes to that, my wild guess is that the Coogers will finally get their chance to enter into the not-so-Big 12 (given the fact that the veto power of UT has been removed). If that happens, then we need to do whatever it takes, get out checkbooks, I don’t know, any kind of pressure we can, to get into the American Conference. . Of course SMU will be vying for the same spot as UH. Either one of them, I’d be glad to take their place in the AAC. That should be something that appears to be a bit more realistic at this point

So, more realistic to hope for is an AAC with:
ECU
Tulane
USF
Tulsa
Temple
Rice* (and that's onlyIF they want us--which these schools most certainly did not last time we had a "chance" to be in AAC)
and whoever else they can get from leftovers,
maybe:
Appy State
UTSA
one or two of FI/AU?

Wow. That's almost as disappointing as where we are now.

Long way to go, but these things require we take action ahead of time and get our "Sandwich Boards outmade (since we adamantly were against using them last time, remember?)

I guess it's the ol' SWC guy in me that still hopes to reunite with at least some of the smaller schools from that bunch during this round. Wonder who else would be willing to come to that group that would actually help it be better than where we find ourselves at the moment?

I'd rather dream about the BigXII leftover lottery ticket for a while.

More desirable for the AAC than Rice (probably others, too):

UAB
Florida Atlantic
Louisiana
UTSA
Coastal Carolina
Appalachian State
Old Dominion

Very true. Can’t think of a conference that w truly love to have Rice as a member. Sure, wherever Rice ends up, the schools will publicly talk about how great it is to have school of Rice’s academic stature, but what would Rice bring athleticly to almost any conference other than an easy conference win?

Not dominating or even being competitive in CUSA version whatever we’re up to will bite Rice in the behind in the next realignment wave.

I thought TCU hated our guts or is my failing memory failing again.

(Our current athletic profile is closer to the WAC than the SEC, PAC, or BIG12. Any further degradation and it's hello Southland.)

So in this scenario, would be better off being UH's replacement in the newly watered down AAC (which would essentially be CUSA all over again, with everyone else looking to jump ship), or should JK make overtures to the MWC once again? I recall a story in December a couple of years ago where it was reported Rice and UTEP had made overtures to the MWC for expansion, but nothing ever came of it. Would that be Rice's best play (absent something crazy happening, like the ACC/BIG/PAC insisting on Rice coming along with one of the Big12 refugees)?
07-22-2021 10:00 AM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: New Realignment Thread
In terms of athletics or eyeballs (size of fan base), Rice brings nothing to the table. The Southland, before the departure of their top schools, would not have regarded Rice as being any kind of upgrade. Being in Houston has these advantages: easier flights and ample hotel space near the campus. Those factors are relatively unimportant in comparison to the areas in which Rice fails.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 10:42 AM by WRCisforgotten79.)
07-22-2021 10:39 AM
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RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 10:39 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  In terms of athletics or eyeballs (size of fan base), Rice brings nothing to the table. The Southland, before the departure of their top schools, would not have regarded Rice as being any kind of upgrade. Being in Houston has these advantages: easier flights and ample hotel space near the campus. Those factors are relatively unimportant in comparison to the areas in which Rice fails.

If NIL + realignment doesn't result in an "Ivy League South", then D-III here we come.

Ivy League South - some iteration of Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, military academies (barred from NIL), maybe a couple of current DIII schools with money such as Trinity U stepping up.

Having toured a few DIII schools recently with nice athletic facilities, I don't know that DIII isn't the place for Rice given the current landscape. Rice's tuition promise, current facilities would certainly make us competitive in the DIII pond.
07-22-2021 11:38 AM
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Post: #16
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 09:40 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I think the NCAA needs to either put up or shut up.

If we are collegiate athletes, using athletics to promote scholarship, then lets be that. If instead we are money-makers (which is what the NCAA has let this become) then we are professionals and have no connection to academics or scholarship.

You can have a scholarship or you can get paid as an individual. If you get paid as an individual then you can pay for college... at least on the same sliding scale as everyone else who 'works', and you don't compete for the Institution that you attend. If UT et all want to contract with this semi-pro team, some of whom attend classes, they certainly can.... but they are NOT 'student-athletes'. They are athletes, who may or may not be students.

The farce needs to end


I agree with this as the root coause of most of the "problems" in college sports. It would be different or sure, but sometimes you gotta pck a side. Good post, Ham.
07-22-2021 11:54 AM
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Post: #17
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 10:00 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  So in this scenario, would be better off being UH's replacement in the newly watered down AAC (which would essentially be CUSA all over again, with everyone else looking to jump ship), or should JK make overtures to the MWC once again? I recall a story in December a couple of years ago where it was reported Rice and UTEP had made overtures to the MWC for expansion, but nothing ever came of it. Would that be Rice's best play (absent something crazy happening, like the ACC/BIG/PAC insisting on Rice coming along with one of the Big12 refugees)?

I'd absolutely luv for Rice to somehow end up in the ACC, and the "market" argument could be our only real hope for a scenario to make that happen- for them to counteract some SEC thunder. Somehow, I think schools and conferences are going to be using a different viewpoint towards realignment than last time. So much has changed. And we have I guess also, but only for the worse. Dammit we couldn't get it going in either football or basketball in time. I guess you can put your hope in Pera (I think he's doing about as well as he can, given the situation in college basketball, our admin's and BOD's intransigence and what he has to work with), but I'm not sure it would be enough even if we somehow made the tourney at this point. We needed SUSTAINED success, especially in football, over the last decade-plus, and all we had was some fools' gold that we bought.

This was always going to have consequences. Unlike in SWC days where we just sucked and everyone knew it and accepted it. Now, every time we DON'T get better an dominate our current conference in football and/or basketball, it gets harder to try to.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 12:11 PM by GoodOwl.)
07-22-2021 12:01 PM
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Post: #18
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 11:38 AM)ausowl Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 10:39 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  In terms of athletics or eyeballs (size of fan base), Rice brings nothing to the table. The Southland, before the departure of their top schools, would not have regarded Rice as being any kind of upgrade. Being in Houston has these advantages: easier flights and ample hotel space near the campus. Those factors are relatively unimportant in comparison to the areas in which Rice fails.

If NIL + realignment doesn't result in an "Ivy League South", then D-III here we come.

Ivy League South - some iteration of Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, military academies (barred from NIL), maybe a couple of current DIII schools with money such as Trinity U stepping up.

Having toured a few DIII schools recently with nice athletic facilities, I don't know that DIII isn't the place for Rice given the current landscape. Rice's tuition promise, current facilities would certainly make us competitive in the DIII pond.

Except our history shows we'd find a way to F888 even that up, it seems.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 12:02 PM by GoodOwl.)
07-22-2021 12:02 PM
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Post: #19
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 12:02 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 11:38 AM)ausowl Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 10:39 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  In terms of athletics or eyeballs (size of fan base), Rice brings nothing to the table. The Southland, before the departure of their top schools, would not have regarded Rice as being any kind of upgrade. Being in Houston has these advantages: easier flights and ample hotel space near the campus. Those factors are relatively unimportant in comparison to the areas in which Rice fails.
If NIL + realignment doesn't result in an "Ivy League South", then D-III here we come.
Ivy League South - some iteration of Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, military academies (barred from NIL), maybe a couple of current DIII schools with money such as Trinity U stepping up.
Having toured a few DIII schools recently with nice athletic facilities, I don't know that DIII isn't the place for Rice given the current landscape. Rice's tuition promise, current facilities would certainly make us competitive in the DIII pond.
Except our history shows we'd find a way to F888 even that up, it seems.

Almost certainly so.
07-22-2021 12:23 PM
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Post: #20
RE: New Realignment Thread
(07-22-2021 10:00 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  
(07-22-2021 02:03 AM)MerseyOwl Wrote:  
(07-21-2021 11:37 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Very true. Can’t think of a conference that w truly love to have Rice as a member. Sure, wherever Rice ends up, the schools will publicly talk about how great it is to have school of Rice’s academic stature, but what would Rice bring athleticly to almost any conference other than an easy conference win?

Not dominating or even being competitive in CUSA version whatever we’re up to will bite Rice in the behind in the next realignment wave.

I thought TCU hated our guts or is my failing memory failing again.

(Our current athletic profile is closer to the WAC than the SEC, PAC, or BIG12. Any further degradation and it's hello Southland.)

So in this scenario, would be better off being UH's replacement in the newly watered down AAC (which would essentially be CUSA all over again, with everyone else looking to jump ship), or should JK make overtures to the MWC once again? I recall a story in December a couple of years ago where it was reported Rice and UTEP had made overtures to the MWC for expansion, but nothing ever came of it. Would that be Rice's best play (absent something crazy happening, like the ACC/BIG/PAC insisting on Rice coming along with one of the Big12 refugees)?

MWC (add: Wichita St#, SMU, Rice*)

Mountain Division
Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State, New Mexico, Utah State, Wyoming
West Division
Fresno State, Hawaii+, Nevada, UNLV, San Diego State, San Jose State

I'd guess then we' be in the "Mountain" which sounds kinda funny. In fact, all 3 of those potnetial add teams would. Wichita State would pair well with Hawaii since they're basketball only and Hawaii is football only in MWC.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2021 01:28 PM by GoodOwl.)
07-22-2021 01:28 PM
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