(07-22-2021 10:00 AM)Pimpa Wrote:  I recall a story in December a couple of years ago where it was reported Rice and UTEP had made overtures to the MWC for expansion, but nothing ever came of it.

If I recall, New Mexico had asked the MWC to consider UTEP during their regular meeting at the football conference championship (I think just ADs, not presidents). JK heard through the grapevine that UTEP realignment was going to be brought up, so he requested that they consider Rice at the same meeting. I didn't hear anything about whether anybody in the MWC was interested in us.

I think the Big 12/Little 8 is an illusion. The new Big 12 will probably be ephemeral with the better placed schools looking to jump ship at the first opportunity. Rice has too much experience with schools jumping ship not to have learned.

Rice has a lot of negatives, certainly. But it also has some strong points.


Strong academics, which should be attractive to academic conferences like the BIG and the Pac 12.

Very large market. The BiG took Maryland ( a weak athletic school) and Rutgers ( a sports nothing burger) just to get access to their markets.

Houston and Texas produce a lot of high quality athletes.

Women's sports have gotten much better - nationally ranked.

I believe baseball will turn around given the new management.

Football and basketball should be much improved.

(07-22-2021 07:41 PM)Ranger Wrote:  I think the Big 12/Little 8 is an illusion. The new Big 12 will probably be ephemeral with the better placed schools looking to jump ship at the first opportunity. Rice has too much experience with schools jumping ship not to have learned.

Rice has a lot of negatives, certainly. But it also has some strong points.


Strong academics, which should be attractive to academic conferences like the BIG and the Pac 12.

Very large market. The BiG took Maryland ( a weak athletic school) and Rutgers ( a sports nothing burger) just to get access to their markets.

Houston and Texas produce a lot of high quality athletes.

Women's sports have gotten much better - nationally ranked.

I believe baseball will turn around given the new management.

Football and basketball should be much improved.

But, according to this analysis, https://sports.yahoo.com/se-cs-courtship...34687.html "... it’s streaming subscriptions, not cable boxes, that matter most."

So our low student/alumni/fan numbers -- and a relatively low interest in athletics among them, to boot -- will, sadly, likely make moving up to a better conference even more difficult. (I hoping for otherwise, though.)

I'd like to see us concentrate our efforts on the PAC12, academics are a better fit,( maybe as a package with TCU, Baylor, and BYU) the Houston market is desirous and we would be somewhere we could stay

at this point put all our eggs in one basket

(07-22-2021 08:41 PM)THRILL Wrote:  I'd like to see us concentrate our efforts on the PAC12, academics are a better fit,( maybe as a package with TCU, Baylor, and BYU) the Houston market is desirous and we would be somewhere we could stay

at this point put all our eggs in one basket

Agree. After years of mismanagement, our only hope is taking a risk. Pac 12 is the best option. On the Cardboard, posters are already assuming that the PAC will add four more..

(07-22-2021 08:41 PM)THRILL Wrote:  I'd like to see us concentrate our efforts on the PAC12, academics are a better fit,( maybe as a package with TCU, Baylor, and BYU) the Houston market is desirous and we would be somewhere we could stay
at this point put all our eggs in one basket

PAC-12 has (or had, and I've seen no indication that they have abandoned it) a policy against schools with religious affiliations. USC was Methodist at one time, but that has pretty much gone by the boards. That would tend to rule out BYU, TCU, or Baylor. For once, we might be a more attractive option than they are.

(07-22-2021 09:01 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 08:41 PM)THRILL Wrote:  I'd like to see us concentrate our efforts on the PAC12, academics are a better fit,( maybe as a package with TCU, Baylor, and BYU) the Houston market is desirous and we would be somewhere we could stay

at this point put all our eggs in one basket

Agree. After years of mismanagement, our only hope is taking a risk. Pac 12 is the best option. On the Cardboard, posters are already assuming that the PAC will add four more..

Thanks,,
Rice academic /Houston/private
TCU Ft Worth/Academic /private/Christian kinda
Baylor Christian/private/academic/Cen-tex
BYU Mormons

in an Eastern with Utah, Colorado, AZ,AZ st


We could win that football division occasionally
Women's sports could compete right away
Helluva baseball top to bottom
and I think we could get there in basketball


my guess is Stanford. USC ,Utah ,Cal would be agreeable to sponsor

They get 3 games a year in Texas and Houston or Dalles Ft Worth every year
Recruiting and this is the way for the pac 12 to keep pace with the SEC is grabbing talent in Texas

7 games in division 2 in conference 3 non-conference football scedele keep travel costs reasonable

as all 3 texas schools are private they don't have to worry about Danny Patrick
and they now dance and murder at Baylor

(07-22-2021 09:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  PAC-12 has (or had, and I've seen no indication that they have abandoned it) a policy against schools with religious affiliations. USC was Methodist at one time, but that has pretty much gone by the boards. That would tend to rule out BYU, TCU, or Baylor. For once, we might be a more attractive option than they are.

This.

This is the one useful card we might have left. AFAIK, candidate schools for the PAC-12 must be full research institutions, and they must not have any formal religious ties. The PAC-12 also values academics highly, perhaps to a greater degree than any other P5 conference. That means that if UT were to go to the SEC, there would be exactly one Texas school that would really be eligible to get into the PAC-12: Rice.

Of course, we have so much baggage now that I can scarcely envision the PAC-12 ever considering us for membership. There is also the problem of finding ourselves a travel partner that the PAC-12 would consider desirable. I reckon the PAC-12 would look hard at the Mountain West and UC-Davis before giving us the time of day at this point. But who knows...

(07-22-2021 10:13 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(07-22-2021 09:22 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  PAC-12 has (or had, and I've seen no indication that they have abandoned it) a policy against schools with religious affiliations. USC was Methodist at one time, but that has pretty much gone by the boards. That would tend to rule out BYU, TCU, or Baylor. For once, we might be a more attractive option than they are.

This.

This is the one useful card we might have left. AFAIK, candidate schools for the PAC-12 must be full research institutions, and they must not have any formal religious ties. The PAC-12 also values academics highly, perhaps to a greater degree than any other P5 conference. That means that if UT were to go to the SEC, there would be exactly one Texas school that would really be eligible to get into the PAC-12: Rice.

Of course, we have so much baggage now that I can scarcely envision the PAC-12 ever considering us for membership. There is also the problem of finding ourselves a travel partner that the PAC-12 would consider desirable. I reckon the PAC-12 would look hard at the Mountain West and UC-Davis before giving us the time of day at this point. But who knows...

With his Stanford experience and contacts, I'd think that JK would certainly know and understand the issues/possibilities regarding Rice being welcomed into the Pac-12. Has anyone asked him how likely such an invite might be?

Let’s ask the guy who had a huge hand in our current fiasco. I’m sure his knowledge and connections to major conferences would be a great help.

If Texas and Oklahoma go to the SEC, the value of games in Houston for B1G and Pac become even greater. Is it enough?? I don't know. Again, I'd think the ability for some of these large schools to essentially have an additional 'home' game (not revenue, but the ability to expand their brand and attract their alums to games they couldn't otherwise attend without expensive stadium expansions) HAS to have SOME value if you play it right.

In a best-case scenario for us, we're attracting 20k RICE fans... in a stadium that can seat 50-70k. The rest are either there to support good local football (fair weather fans) OR our opponents. Same with the Reck and Tudor. It wasn't that long ago when UT fans were regular season ticket holders at Reckling, selling the Aggie and other big name games ALMOST solely so they could have good seats for the UT/Rice game as well as another shot at Post Season tickets.

(07-22-2021 10:52 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  With his Stanford experience and contacts, I'd think that JK would certainly know and understand the issues/possibilities regarding Rice being welcomed into the Pac-12. Has anyone asked him how likely such an invite might be?

I'm sure you won't get a straight answer. because he doesn't want to pressure them unnecessarily or divulge anything... The reality is that we don't control this and the driver will be THEM needing for some reason, whatever we have to offer. The driver right now could be UT/OU to the SEC creating a BIG advantage for the SEC over the PAC (and B1G). I know for a FACT that he's met with them... and knows them... and this is a REAL advantage.....

But they aren't going to simply throw us a bone. They need a reason to want to add a small, eastern (for them) elite academic school in Houston. It would help IMMENSELY if we had a good year (and not just by our own standards, but by ANY standards considering we're g5) in football... if Baseball showed a quick turn-around.. if men's basketball had a good year and if women's and Olympic sports continued to shine and not merely 'flash'.

(07-23-2021 08:43 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If Texas and Oklahoma go to the SEC, the value of games in Houston for B1G and Pac become even greater. Is it enough?? I don't know. Again, I'd think the ability for some of these large schools to essentially have an additional 'home' game (not revenue, but the ability to expand their brand and attract their alums to games they couldn't otherwise attend without expensive stadium expansions) HAS to have SOME value if you play it right.
In a best-case scenario for us, we're attracting 20k RICE fans... in a stadium that can seat 50-70k. The rest are either there to support good local football (fair weather fans) OR our opponents. Same with the Reck and Tudor. It wasn't that long ago when UT fans were regular season ticket holders at Reckling, selling the Aggie and other big name games ALMOST solely so they could have good seats for the UT/Rice game as well as another shot at Post Season tickets.

Back in the days when Arkansas was in the SWC, we had a fairly large number of Arkansas alumni/fans join the Owl Club, so they could get tickets to the SWC post-season basketball tournament.

(07-22-2021 10:52 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  With his Stanford experience and contacts, I'd think that JK would certainly know and understand the issues/possibilities regarding Rice being welcomed into the Pac-12. Has anyone asked him how likely such an invite might be?

With a football team that has gone 5-7, 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3 (16-50 total) over the last 6 years, not very. I don't need to ask JK.

If we want to get serious looks from the big boys, we need to put together a run like TCU did before going to the XII, 11-1, 11-2, 8-5, 11-2, 12-1, 13-0 (Rose Bowl), 11-2. Of course the XII is starting to look more like a booby prize, but it's still better than where we are.

You can lose your way into ever lower conference affiliations (as we have proved since 1994) but you have to win your way to move up.

And as far as the "signature win" thingy, which one of those wins were signature wins for TCU? Arguably the Rose Bowl, for certain. But in reality, all 77 of them were. Insert 13-0 with a Rose Bowl anywhere in that Rice sequence, and it would draw a lot of publicity, but wouldn't get us anywhere as far as conference affiliation. And even that point is moot, because you wouldn't get 13-0 and a Rose Bowl anywhere in that Rice sequence.

We have to win our way out of CUSA, or lose our way to Southland or D3. And the weakness of CUSA makes a TCU-like string possible, but we have failed miserably at doing it.

Not to belittle the women's sports accomplishments, those are wonderful and could certainly be tie-breakers if it came to that. But we have to get at least into a tie before those matter, and 16-50 over six years in football doesn't get us into a tie.

(07-23-2021 09:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Not to belittle the women's sports accomplishments, those are wonderful and could certainly be tie-breakers if it came to that. But we have to get at least into a tie before those matter, and 16-50 over six years in football doesn't get us into a tie.

Interim step/show of good faith.....

Sponsor any of the myriad of Olympic/women's sports that Stanford and other PAC12 schools sponsor (crew, beach volleyball, squash, synchronized swimming, gymnastics (with all the local gyms here) water polo etc) and take advantage of the slight advantage we have here versus many other places (because of the value of our education) and join them in those sports. They shouldn't have a big problem with this as it isn't revenue driven... but recruiting in Houston/Texas could be a big advantage. Then we start sponsoring home and homes with volleyball, W. basketball and T&F/CC... and baseball again...

(07-23-2021 09:55 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(07-23-2021 09:17 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Not to belittle the women's sports accomplishments, those are wonderful and could certainly be tie-breakers if it came to that. But we have to get at least into a tie before those matter, and 16-50 over six years in football doesn't get us into a tie.

Interim step/show of good faith.....
Sponsor any of the myriad of Olympic/women's sports that Stanford and other PAC12 schools sponsor (crew, beach volleyball, squash, synchronized swimming, gymnastics (with all the local gyms here) water polo etc) and take advantage of the slight advantage we have here versus many other places (because of the value of our education) and join them in those sports. They shouldn't have a big problem with this as it isn't revenue driven... but recruiting in Houston/Texas could be a big advantage. Then we start sponsoring home and homes with volleyball, W. basketball and T&F/CC... and baseball again...

Yes, you and I have both long felt that making a splash in what I will call Olympic sports would be an excellent move for Rice. Most of them don't cost very much, the athletes tend to be true student-athletes who could bring up the academic numbers for all scholarship athletes, it's what the Ivies do, and it's one way to build relationships with the conferences that we would like to join. Wrestling is one that pretty much all of the XII sponsor, if we wanted to go that way (which admittedly looked a lot better a couple of weeks ago than it does now).

(07-23-2021 10:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Wrestling is one that pretty much all of the XII sponsor, if we wanted to go that way (which admittedly looked a lot better a couple of weeks ago than it does now).

Which could be a great advantage if UT and OU leave the XII as those schools will likely want 'wrestling only' schools.

That wouldn't be as great a move as attracting the Pac for the reasons you note, but it also wouldn't be a bad idea to leverage our options. Add wrestling and join the 'new' XII if that happens... and be able to compete OOC with the PAC, and join the PAC for say Gymnastics and complete OOC with the XII.

I just do not see the XII or the AAC as long term options. The top schools will jump ship as soon as they can to a better conference. And we will continue with these silly games.

The SEC is obviously not a possibility.

Which leaves BIG, PAC and ACC.

While BIG took Maryland and Rutgers, neither of which has been anywhere near a sports power (and I think we should talk with the BIG), I think PAC is the answer.

Judging from the admittedly small sample of the comments on the CARDBOARD, there is some angst about OU and UT moving to the SEC. And they do not feel that there are any good options, other than perhaps Baylor and TCU. If PAC expands, it makes sense to add four rather than just two. With 16 teams you could have two 8 team divisions. PAC West - the West Coast schools which comprised the PAC 8. PAC East - the remaining schools. Stanford could be the academic school of the West, and Rice in the East.

Owl69 correctly points out that we have a weak hand. But winning depends on how you play your hand. Or another way, a great salesman can sell an average or worse product. We just need a representative/negotiator who can sell the deal. I doubt that would be Leebron. Maybe a BOT member who passionately supports athletics might have the time.

Rice and Texas Tech to the Pac 12? Maybe we talk them into K. State or Baylor also. Even though Baylor is "religious", it is a very high profile school. It's too bad that Vanderbilt isn't advocating for a private academic institution. Otherwise, I would advocate Rice to the MWC.

I think I'd rather join the diluted XII than the MWC. Maybe try and steal a few teams from the MWC to the new XII. With much less revenue by losing UT and OU, the cost savings of a regional conference become more important.

Clarification: The above as opposed to staying put or joining the MWC. I'm 100% IN joining a p5 conference in any way we can. I'd rather be with TCU, Baylor, Tech, K State etc than with the MWC.