adcorbett
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RE: Houston Chronicle: Texas & OU Talking with SEC
(07-21-2021 04:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote: (07-21-2021 03:57 PM)solohawks Wrote: If this happens and I'm the Big 12 left with 8 team, I go for the jugular against the PAC
I tell USC, UCLA, CAL, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Arizona to come play in our new Big 16 sandbox
IMO, that would be like Spud Webb trying to go for I don't know, 2002 Shaq's jugular.
The PAC schools would have zero reason to break up their conference to play with a bunch of midwest low-value losers.
What up Holmes? I only wanted to remind you that back in the day, you could beat Mike Tyson with lil’ Mac! ?
(07-21-2021 04:11 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote: If conferences go to 16, I can see them dropping divisions for 4-5 permanent opponents and more games with the rest of the group. Top 2 play in the title game.
Four pods , that rotate as divisions every year. Actually increases play cross division. Play every team in your pod, every team in one pod each year (your division), and either one team in each of the Other divisions (if nine conference games), or just one of them. Pretty easy schedule to work out.
(07-21-2021 04:22 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: (07-21-2021 04:10 PM)solohawks Wrote: It comes down to, if you were USC, UCLA, CAL, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and Arizona who would you rather play and who would offer the most TV money
would it be more profitable to play:
Washington St, Oregon St, Arizona St, and Utah
OR
TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, WVU
The former is status quo while the latter opens up a whole new timezone and TV opportunity.
While its not the PAC 16 Larry Scott envisioned, I think it would better help keep pace with the Big 10 and SEC. With the need for the Rose Bowl dying in an expanded college football playoff, why isolate yourself to the west coast?
Arizona St is the most valuable of these 12 schools. So while the 8 XII schools might be more valuable than WSU/OSU, the PAC schools would probably just stick with splitting it 12 ways and keeping ASU over splitting it 16 ways and losing ASU.
Are we counting when jake Plummer was there? The answer is Kansas without hesitation. Next question…
(07-21-2021 04:26 PM)schmolik Wrote: (07-21-2021 04:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote: (07-21-2021 03:43 PM)micahandme Wrote: (07-21-2021 03:34 PM)schmolik Wrote: I can't speak for the Big 10 but if Oklahoma and Texas do go to the SEC and I were in charge of the Big 10, I'm not going to bail out Iowa State, Kansas, or anyone else in the Big 12 and I have no need to expand to 16 just to keep up with the SEC. Adding two extra members means cutting the pie into two extra slices. If the two are Texas and Oklahoma, the pie gets bigger and the slices are still bigger overall. If the two are Iowa State and Kansas or any other Big 12 pair, the pie isn't likely going to get bigger and the slices overall will be smaller so why should the Big 10 add anyone? If FOX, ESPN, CBS, etc will offer us a proportional increase for two Big 12 members, I'll listen. Otherwise, no deal.
Agreed.
If the ACC is locked down and the Big Ten can't crack UVA or UNC free, there's no one even in the stratosphere of OU/UT for acadmics/sports.
What if the Big Ten countered the SEC move by landing Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Virginia?
Doesn't that still fall under the category of "ACC is locked down"?
But assuming the ACC isn't locked down, that would be a mammoth move for the Big 10 but not the same category as OU/UT to the SEC.
We’ve always discussed here how grants of rights, as soon as their challenged in court, have so many issues they’ll never hold up. That said the issue is the ACC teams in question. By and large, really don’t want to compete with teams with budgets so much larger then their own. More money means little if it means you have to spend the difference plus more to compete…
(07-21-2021 04:54 PM)usffan Wrote: I was told that this was impossible: https://csnbbs.com/thread-833387-post-14...id14794074
(11-18-2017 12:53 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote: (11-17-2017 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote: (lots of longwindedness snipped)
An announcement in 2023 for movement in 2025 doesn't require a vote and meets Big 12 guidelines. Even an announcement in 2021 for departure in 2023 doesn't leave a penalty too large for the departing to pay. And that kind of movement can happen with any number of schools.
the part in bold is 100% incorrect
the Big 12 has two contracts they have the GOR that ends at the same time the Big 12 TV contract ends and that has NO PROVISIONS FOR LEAVING THE CONFERENCE
the GOR has no notification requirement and it has no penalties and it has no option for giving advanced notification and or paying any amount of money to leave with media rights before te end of the contract and that is 100% by design
the Big 12 ALSO has a contract for conference membership that is 99 years in length from 2012 and that contract for conference membership DOES have a notification requirement and it has a penalty for leaving the conference, BUT it makes clear that giving that notification and paying that penalty does not exempt one from the GOR and it does not invalidate the GOR
and more importantly that Big 12 contract for conference membership requires that any member that is contacts OR IS CONTACTED by another party about leaving the conference is required to notify the conference of that contact within 12 days AND to formally submit a declining letter to that offer and failing to do so puts that member in violation of the contract for conference membership
so the REALITY is there is ZERO chance that 8 members of the Big 12 are all going to get together, all agree to go out and make contact with other conferences AND gain a guarantee to be admitted to those other conferences all within 12 days time
there will be SEVERAL of those members that will not be confident in the fact that they will get an offer from another conference that will be close to what they have in the Big 12 and they are not going to agree to COLLUDE to try and collapse the conference especially if they only LEGALLY have 12 days to do so before they MUST notify the conference or be subjected to legal recourse
and even IF it was possible that 8 of those members would agree to that it would still be next to impossible that they could all find a conference to admit them, get things squared away with that conference and the media partners AND do so within 12 days
and as soon as that 12 days passes and they do not make notification to the 2 members they are attempting to screw and leave behind they WILL absolutely be guilty of collusion and they will be restricted at that point on what votes and actions they can take dealing with the Big 12 and more importantly when it comes to the collusion when they get to court and it is proven that 8 members colluded to kill the conference and did so in violation of the rules calling for 12 days to notify the conference about ANY contact to switch conferences AND to LEGALLY DECLINE that offer well the ones that colluded will be subjected to treble damages
the Big 12 contract for conference membership calls for a forfeiture of the last two years of conference payouts for any member that is leaving which at the time of the final years of the GOR will be about $45 million per year or about $90 million per member leaving
even IF that could be negotiated down as it has been in the past the FACT is that if 8 teams get together and violate the 12 day rules of notification in the contract there is ZERO chance that the two remaining members are going to be looking to negotiate anything down and more importantly as soon as it is proven that the 12 day notification and DECLINE rule was violated AND that there was collusion on the part of 8 other members there would be ZERO reason for those members to negotiate anything down because with the collusion would come a near automatic treble damages or $270 million due per member that colluded to leave the conference and violated the 12 day notification and DECLINE requirement in the contract
there is a ZERO chance that you are going to have 8 conference members, several conferences and a couple of networks get together in 12 days work everything out and keep it a secret and after it goes past 12 days there is NO CHANCE that all involved are going to risk felony perjury to go to court and have all those people from all those organizations one after the other perjure themselves in court to say that "no we did not get together to collude to kill the conference and yes we did all that in fewer than 12 days"
so one can PRETEND that 8 teams in the Big 12 would agree to work together to either switch conferences in 12 days or less and one can pretend that they would actually make that happen in 12 days or less if those 8 teams agreed to that, but that is simply not going to happen
and one can pretend that when it takes longer than 12 days that several dozens of people will all get together and go to court and agree to testify that they got it all done in 12 days when they did not, but that will not happen either
and lastly one would be void of reality if they believed that two members of the Big 12 that were looking at getting $90 million in exit fees from the Big 12 and that have now proven collusion and are due 3X damages would work to negotiate that down "just because things like that happen"
no two members of the Big 12 that get screwed by 8 others in a collusion case that would be EASY to prove would have any reason to take less than the full $270 million PER OTHER MEMBER that colluded against them
and it is highly highly unlikely that any court would look at that easily proven case of collusion and the CLEAR contract language and reduce those 3X damages because there are not courts out there anywhere that view collusion fondly or as "something to negotiate away"
so again it is VERY CLEAR in the 99 year Big 12 contract for conference membership that any team that is contracted or makes contact to ANYONE about leaving the Big 12 has 12 days to notify the conference AND to decline that overture
and failure to do so puts them in violation of that contract and subjected to penalties and limited conference participation in conference business
no one that is sane would believe that 8 members of the Big 12 would think they could ALL gain a SOLID LEGAL new conference membership in 12 days or that they would want to, believe they could or that they actually would get away with colluding to violate that 12 day notification AND DECLINE requirement
the fact is there would be a ton of $35,000 to $45,000 a year people involved in that from multiple organizations and many of them are going to be smart enough to know that annual pay is not worth getting a felony perjury charge and then how would it be possible to make contracts with conferences and TV partners and falsify the dates on those contracts so it appears everything was done in 12 days or less
and when you have publicly traded TV partners well there are even more laws with the SEC (Securities Exchange not the SEC SEC SEC) and general business laws that would but a lot of people in serious legal jeopardy if they were trying to falsify the dates that legal contracts were signed so that when those contracts were brought to court it appeared as though they were all completed in a 12 day window even though they were actually finalized weeks or months later
one needs their head examined if they think that university presidents and inside and outside legal counsel are going to look at a 12 day notice tell the Big 12 about ANY contact to switch conferences AND TO DECLINE THAT CONTACT LEGALLY and they will think "yea lets get with 7 other Big 12 members and several conferences and some TV partners and just ignore that 12 day rule as a group of 8 while we leave two other members screwed and yea we can just negotiate away that $90 million in exit fees and the triple damages for collusion and skate by on all the perjury charges as well I think we can pull that off in secret the risk is well worth it"
all the more so when at least 4 of those members would be thinking they have little chance of finding a new home that is worth a damn and at least a couple of them would have to think they were being set up to be screwed as well
USFFan
Consider the source. He ranks third behind david and Buck among worst posters ever on this board…
(07-21-2021 05:19 PM)Statefan Wrote: (07-21-2021 05:17 PM)johnintx Wrote: Kirk Bohls
@kbohls
I'm told Texas A&M and Missouri would be a hard no. Only 2 more needed to block an invitation to Texas, OU.
https://twitter.com/kbohls/status/1417969714878468101
JR's A&M sabotage theory is a possibility. OTOH, A&M and Mizzou are the new kids on the block, and won't have any say in the matter.
Why would they have no say? They are voting members of the SEC. I thought you needed a 3/4 vote - that's 11 of the 14 meaning you need 4 to block as if that would happen.
Because they need two more to make their voices matter. That’s a hard thing to get
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