(05-02-2022 10:04 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Does anyone have any doubt that wealthy boosters wouldn't exponentially increase donations if it meant the could "buy" top talent? Right now a lot of elite players go to lesser SEC and Big 10 teams cause they want to play. But think how many would go to Texas or Ohio State, even if it potentially meant sitting on the bench for a couple years, if they could make $100k more a year than they could at Ole Miss or Michigan State?

I have no doubt whatsoever that the SEC and Big 10 teams would pay whatever they wanted. It's about time that the rest of us stopped pretending this was a fair system and that "plucky" Coastal could give Alabama a good game.

What I'm sick of is the fact that they've been doing this under the table, and making a killing off the students' talents, for decades, and now everyone is shocked, just shocked!, that it's happening in the open. And STILL people want to go back to the under-the-table part.

If Alabama wants to pay some stud $100k/yr to go to Alabama, and Clemson wants to pay him $200k, why on earth do you have a problem with that? He's not playing for JMU anyway, and to say "the only answer is to make him play for free" is among the wrongest answers I can think up.

(05-03-2022 09:13 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  where are the skins on this?

It's not easy to tell. I don't really trust their books (with good reason - see also "Snyder ticket scandal") and there are many ways to juggle the accounting. They own the stadium, so they get extra $ from parking and concerts, and there are a lot of suites.

(05-03-2022 09:13 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  Hard to believe the Lerners need to sell the Nats as they are having financial trouble.

They own tons of office real estate, so they could very well have a liquidity problem rather than an actual value problem. Imagine borrowing $50 billion to build office buildings and pay them off over 50 years, then covid hits and lots of people close their offices. The value of the real estate is really really high, but if the rent's not coming in, you'd have to sell something to get the cash to make the payments, and the baseball team's an option.

Also, I haven't looked in a while - do we know they have a financial problem? Last I heard (again, a while back) the next generation of Lerners just don't have the desire to run the team.

(05-03-2022 01:30 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  What I'm sick of is the fact that they've been doing this under the table, and making a killing off the students' talents, for decades, and now everyone is shocked, just shocked!, that it's happening in the open. And STILL people want to go back to the under-the-table part.

If Alabama wants to pay some stud $100k/yr to go to Alabama, and Clemson wants to pay him $200k, why on earth do you have a problem with that? He's not playing for JMU anyway, and to say "the only answer is to make him play for free" is among the wrongest answers I can think up.

Preach.

It appears the Immovable Object has met the Irresistible Force on this topic....

That's definitely the biggest thing to me, players always have been and always will be paid whether it's under the table or in the open. Maybe some of it has gotten more extreme, but it's hard to tell whether that's actually the case or if we just didn't realize the extent before. It's good to see guys like Mike Greene able to get a little something out of a sunglasses deal and PAO able to get something out of shirseys with his name and number instead of just the power conference guys getting their weekly cash drop and everything though. But those types of deals and things across the board like video games are also what it seems like NIL should be rather than the deals like Texas A&M making it known that you'll be paid $50,000 a year to be an offensive lineman on scholarship there.

I guess really it's just a technicality though, if Texas A&M boosters want to pay their o linemen $50k a year they'll do it whether it's an NIL deal or a bag of $1000 cash each week. And they'll make it known to recruits either way.

I also think it's just going to be kind of awkward and inefficient to get to where it kinda should be because of where it's coming from. We aren't gonna suddenly have separate minor league football and NCAA football and if we do kinda get there the minor league is still gonna be University of Alabama Crimson Tide. Not some separate Tuscaloosa Tide semi-pro team while University of Alabama also has a college team operating more like the G5's. Major college football makes too much money for those schools to just go "oh ok yeah, make a separate minor league and we'll just start truly playing with amateur student athletes now."

(05-03-2022 01:30 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  

(05-02-2022 10:04 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Does anyone have any doubt that wealthy boosters wouldn't exponentially increase donations if it meant the could "buy" top talent? Right now a lot of elite players go to lesser SEC and Big 10 teams cause they want to play. But think how many would go to Texas or Ohio State, even if it potentially meant sitting on the bench for a couple years, if they could make $100k more a year than they could at Ole Miss or Michigan State?

I have no doubt whatsoever that the SEC and Big 10 teams would pay whatever they wanted. It's about time that the rest of us stopped pretending this was a fair system and that "plucky" Coastal could give Alabama a good game.

What I'm sick of is the fact that they've been doing this under the table, and making a killing off the students' talents, for decades, and now everyone is shocked, just shocked!, that it's happening in the open. And STILL people want to go back to the under-the-table part.

If Alabama wants to pay some stud $100k/yr to go to Alabama, and Clemson wants to pay him $200k, why on earth do you have a problem with that? He's not playing for JMU anyway, and to say "the only answer is to make him play for free" is among the wrongest answers I can think up.

Who said they should play for free? You're naïve enough to trust boosters and agents feasting on 18 year olds without any oversight or regulation?

Something I haven't seen much discussion on is the impact for the schools fundraising and budgets. I have to assume that if A&M boosters spent $30M on NIL deals, there is going to be a gap in A&M's fundraising, and thus, operating budgets. It appears A&M received $37M in pledges and contributions last year (and another $16.6M from people converting season ticket purchases to donations). Oil money ain't no joke, and the $30M isn't cash out the door this year (or even ever as agreed), but I wonder how the programs are going to continue funding their budgets when folks are estimating top P5 teams are going to cost $5 -10M of NIL money each year.

(05-03-2022 07:29 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  Something I haven't seen much discussion on is the impact for the schools fundraising and budgets. I have to assume that if A&M boosters spent $30M on NIL deals, there is going to be a gap in A&M's fundraising, and thus, operating budgets. It appears A&M received $37M in pledges and contributions last year (and another $16.6M from people converting season ticket purchases to donations). Oil money ain't no joke, and the $30M isn't cash out the door this year (or even ever as agreed), but I wonder how the programs are going to continue funding their budgets when folks are estimating top P5 teams are going to cost $5 -10M of NIL money each year.

Probably depends on the source of those funds. It may divert school donations in some cases, but probably not in others.

If Nike starts funding NIL at Oregon, for instance, I'm not sure that would cut their donations to the school. A lot of past "recruiting scandals" involved shoe and apparel companies funneling money under the table.

At an individual level, if JMU had a NIL collective, I don't think I would reduce my DC giving to give towards that. Hard to predict this overall though.

Instead of a NIL collective my idea would be a NIL Store. Maybe open one up in downtown Harrisonburg. Have JMU memorabilia for sale signed by the players with a proof of authenticity like a QR code showing them doing the actual signing. Sell a football jersey with their name and number for $150 (player keeps $100) and make it limited edition with 500 made. That way it is cheap and accessible enough for the average fan to support the NIL while a NIL collective or major booster could step in and purchase all the remaining jerseys so a player can get their "guaranteed" number.

Can also do things like where the whole team or defense signs a ball or jersey, and the proceeds get split up evenly so the lesser-known players can also get in on the NIL action.

This has been circulating around on FCS Twitter but SDSU TE Tucker Kraft was on a podcast talking about NIL and said that he had multiple big schools reach out to him who needed a TE and were going to offer him six figures via collectives to make it happen. Who knows the exact details but this appears to be another case of the tampering that has upset so many when it comes to the current NIL landscape.

It should be an interesting week in Washington as many members of Congress both Republicans and Democrats have been meeting with the SEC and PAC12 commissioners to express their concern with the wild west of NIL right now. I'm not sure how I feel about federal legislation on the matter, if only there were some sort of organization that was supposed to oversee college athletics... oh wait.

(05-04-2022 11:03 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  Probably depends on the source of those funds. It may divert school donations in some cases, but probably not in others.

If Nike starts funding NIL at Oregon, for instance, I'm not sure that would cut their donations to the school. A lot of past "recruiting scandals" involved shoe and apparel companies funneling money under the table.

At an individual level, if JMU had a NIL collective, I don't think I would reduce my DC giving to give towards that. Hard to predict this overall though.

Agreed it will heavily depend on the source of those funds. Nike only has so much in the budget. They can't say we gave $X to Oregon last year and now that NIL is out we are going to give 2x $X and keep our investors happy with returns. Some founder lead business will get away with doubling up as they see it differently when they don't have to report to a Board or Investors. Larger corporates will be hard pressed to justify additional spending.

I imagine the smaller donors who have their own personal budgets will be making a choice on how to split the same/similar total amount of giving amongst the NIL collective and directly to school. Given JMU's overall giving rate, and limited number of Duke Club members, who I believe really needs the $50 here and there amounts, I believe a serious NIL collective for JMU would hurt the Duke Club.

Bottom line, it appears hundreds of millions will flow through NIL deals in the next few years and that money was originally earmarked for something else. If A&M needs $10M a year to field a competitive team, and only 10% of that money was actually a transfer from directly to the school to directly to the NIL, thats $1M and ~3% of their annual donations no longer coming in.

Recent articles by SI and the WSJ regarding the NIL:

https://www.si.com/college/2022/05/02/ni...m=news_tab

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ncaa-name-i..._permalink

NCAA looking to punish NIL collectives used as recruiting tools

Quote:Despite the clarity coming 10 months into the NIL era, the guidelines are meant to be retroactive. According to the guidelines, the NCAA enforcement staff is given the freedom to investigate those who egregiously violated bylaws in the past.

https://www.si.com/college/syracuse/recr...s-syracuse

(05-10-2022 08:55 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  NCAA looking to punish NIL collectives used as recruiting tools

Quote:Despite the clarity coming 10 months into the NIL era, the guidelines are meant to be retroactive. According to the guidelines, the NCAA enforcement staff is given the freedom to investigate those who egregiously violated bylaws in the past.

https://www.si.com/college/syracuse/recr...s-syracuse

So, translated, this means the NCAA is so upset about Alabama, Ohio State, et. al taking advantage of the NIL “non-rules” the NCAA will give Kent State the death penalty.

(Apologies to Jerry Tarkanian’s famous quote about the NCAA being so mad at Kentucky they’ll give Cleveland State another year of probation.)

(05-10-2022 09:18 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(05-10-2022 08:55 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  NCAA looking to punish NIL collectives used as recruiting tools

Quote:Despite the clarity coming 10 months into the NIL era, the guidelines are meant to be retroactive. According to the guidelines, the NCAA enforcement staff is given the freedom to investigate those who egregiously violated bylaws in the past.

https://www.si.com/college/syracuse/recr...s-syracuse

So, translated, this means the NCAA is so upset about Alabama, Ohio State, et. al taking advantage of the NIL “non-rules” the NCAA will give Kent State the death penalty.

(Apologies to Jerry Tarkanian’s famous quote about the NCAA being so mad at Kentucky they’ll give Cleveland State another year of probation.)

I get the parallel/humor, but these "non-rules" were actually existing rules the collectives were just hoping to ignore and work around. There have been NCAA rules about boosters contacting/recruiting prospects for a long time. It looks like maybe NCAA decided to grow a spine and enforce their rules. This probably won't prevent collectives from rewarding players already at a given school, but it could reduce their involvement in recruiting.

Quote:Any booster or booster-led collective that has been found to have associated with a prospect about recruiting—on another college team or in high school—will be found to have violated NCAA rules, and the booster’s school is at risk of sanctions, Colorado athletic director Rick George told SI last week. George serves on the NCAA NIL working group.

Ok, quick story. Down here in Corolla/OBX for a little R&R. Strike up a conversation with a guy who played D1 basketball in the commonwealth of VA a few years back; his team pulled a big upset in the NCAA too. Anyway, we started talking NIL, transfer portal etc. He is very close with the qb who signed with Tennessee. He said, “the university presented him with the $8m NIL package”…does that sound correct? Is he saying someone officially connected to or working with the university set up or approved the deal? If so, does JMU have such a person? He described it as they had it all laid out- clothing deal, jerseys, automobiles, restaurants etc. I am so confused and wondering how this works and will JMU ever be able to play this game. I heard Percy has a deal with Stevens Toyota or someone like that- if any of you have knowledge and insight into how this all works I’d love to hear it.

It sounds like he's talking about a group of boosters who have set up a sort of collective where they will sign a player from the football, basketball, etc. team to a specific value. Technically, the school and coaches are not saying this, but a rep from the collective and a rep from the player's side are probably hammering out the details while the school/coaches and player/family are figuring out where he is going to attend and play. The NCAA can tighten up regulations against this because of the inherent pay for play nature of it, but they are too afraid to do anything because A) they think they are going to get slapped around in the courts again, and B) they are going to get slapped around by the P5 schools. I am all for players getting these deals, but think that this is entirely over the line; the kid hasn't even played a snap and he's got $8M on the table?

That said, I haven't seen the contract, and doubt too many of the pontificators on this subject have either. Is it $8M guaranteed or is the deal potentially worth UP TO $8M? Are there any fees or deductions involved? What happens if he transfers? What happens if he rides the pine the whole time? Lots of questions we still don't have answers to, so I would say we should reserve judgement, but I can understand why people think this looks really bad for college sports. I also think these types of deals are far from the norm; most of the deals we see are in the 4 digit range or the use of a car from a dealership, not literal bags of money being dropped.

(06-06-2022 08:40 AM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  I am so confused and wondering how this works and will JMU ever be able to play this game. I heard Percy has a deal with Stevens Toyota or someone like that- if any of you have knowledge and insight into how this all works I’d love to hear it.

Nope. We won't be able to play this game at all. Welcome to the new world order... and prepare for the fact that we will never again (unless something changes) have superstar athletes at JMU. They will simply leave for more money. The system forces a prescribed mediocrity on schools like JMU (and the entire Sunbelt) by allowing these schools to take on all of the risk of developing 'flyers' in true farm system nature. P5s can now simply replace underperforming kids with those that are performing... at G5s and lower classifications. If JMU ever manages to field a football team that is bowl bound... we are simply going to get raided. Rinse and repeat. This system is not going to be kind to JMU and like schools.

(06-06-2022 11:42 AM)boozeNammo Wrote:  

(06-06-2022 08:40 AM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  I am so confused and wondering how this works and will JMU ever be able to play this game. I heard Percy has a deal with Stevens Toyota or someone like that- if any of you have knowledge and insight into how this all works I’d love to hear it.

Nope. We won't be able to play this game at all. Welcome to the new world order... and prepare for the fact that we will never again (unless something changes) have superstar athletes at JMU. They will simply leave for more money. The system forces a prescribed mediocrity on schools like JMU (and the entire Sunbelt) by allowing these schools to take on all of the risk of developing 'flyers' in true farm system nature. P5s can now simply replace underperforming kids with those that are performing... at G5s and lower classifications. If JMU ever manages to field a football team that is bowl bound... we are simply going to get raided. Rinse and repeat. This system is not going to be kind to JMU and like schools.

And we will poach kids from the FCS and other g5 shools just like the p5 takes kids from the g5. NIL is brand new and the pendulum has swung completely in the other direction from what it was. It'll be the wild west for a few years and then things will settle down once there are some rules implimented. JMU will be fine