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Devout Biden vs Abortion
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Bronco'14 Online
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RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
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(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 03:09 PM by Bronco'14.)
02-22-2021 03:09 PM
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bearcat65 Online
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RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
02-22-2021 03:16 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 03:08 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 03:06 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  I think it's pretty clear that on the issue of abortion in this country, upholding existing law is precisely the point. Repubs are the ones who keep trying to move the lines around.


That is how democracy works, people can fight to legally change a law if they think it should be changed.

No argument there - Bronco is the one talking about dems not wanting to uphold existing laws - I'm just explaining that on this issue, it's repubs not wanting to do it. That game goes both ways.
02-22-2021 03:20 PM
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tigergreen Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 03:16 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-yor...omos-faith

This was covered on this forum back in 2019 when it first happened.

Under the Reproductive Health Act, non-doctors are now allowed to conduct abortions and the procedure could be done until the mother's due date if the woman's health is endangered or if the fetus is not viable. The previous law only allowed abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk.

Yeah, heaven forbid we celebrate protecting womens' health when the fetus isn't viable and/or the woman's life is in danger.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 03:27 PM by tigergreen.)
02-22-2021 03:25 PM
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tigergreen Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
All of you who are anti-choice should be thrilled that Biden is in office, since abortion rates actually drop every time dems are in control.
It's almost as if educating people and birth control programs work.
02-22-2021 03:26 PM
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bearcat65 Online
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Post: #46
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 03:25 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 03:16 PM)bearcat65 Wrote:  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-yor...omos-faith

This was covered on this forum back in 2019 when it first happened.

Under the Reproductive Health Act, non-doctors are now allowed to conduct abortions and the procedure could be done until the mother's due date if the woman's health is endangered or if the fetus is not viable. The previous law only allowed abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk.

Yeah, heaven forbid we celebrate protecting womens' health when the fetus isn't viable and/or the woman's life is in danger.

Celebrating legalizing the death of a child is repugnant regardless of circumstances.
02-22-2021 03:40 PM
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umbluegray Online
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Post: #47
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 02:43 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:27 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:14 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Most Catholics I know are VERY liberal. Look at their damn pope for example.

That has less to do with it than understanding that just because you may not agree with a particular topic based on religious beliefs, that doesn't mean that as the leader of a country that is neither Catholic nor Christian, you get to prevent others from choices that you wouldn't necessarily make.

That's the whole point in a nutshell.

President Biden is not a Catholic.
Catholic Joe Biden is not the President.

The two need to be separated...as the founders intended.


Well you are dead wrong on this.

Under no circumstance can a Christian put his faith aside. It would be one thing if Biden said he was personally against abortion in most cases, but he will uphold the current law. Its a far different thing to say he believes abortion is morally right.

That is the problem with the left on this issue, they think the more moral position is wide open abortion. That is the righteous position in their view, its a woman's right and it would be immoral to deny that for her.

IN fact as we saw in the recent SCOTUS confirmations, protecting mass abortion is the single biggest moral issue for the left when its comes to the SCOTUS.

The Founders never intended for religious life and government to be separated. That's simply a lie sold by the SCOTUS, among others, back in the 1940s.
02-22-2021 03:48 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #48
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 03:26 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  All of you who are anti-choice should be thrilled that Biden is in office, since abortion rates actually drop every time dems are in control.
It's almost as if educating people and birth control programs work.



What a disgusting comment.

First framing the completely unnecessary genocide of millions of innocent babies as "anti-choice", then telling people they should be thankful an openly pro abortion candidate is in office.

Disgusting immoral.


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...residents/

"I think it is an oversimplification to say there is an association between the abortion rate and the political party occupying the White House," said Dr. Daniel Grossman, a professor of obstetrics, gynecology and reproductive sciences at the University of California, San Francisco.

"Many of the policies that might affect the abortion rate vary at the state level. These include things like whether there has been an expansion of programs, including Medicaid, to provide contraception for people living on low incomes, or alternatively, policies that might make it more difficult for clinicians to provide abortion care."

The graphs cites CDC data, but health department reporting on abortions has fluctuated so much over the years that making broad comparisons can prove challenging. Not every state has reported its abortion data for every year.

Moreover, experts said tying the abortion rate to the occupant of the White House alone is an oversimplification of a variety of factors that are at play.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 04:00 PM by ericsrevenge76.)
02-22-2021 03:53 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 02:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The president is president of the United States, not the catholic church...or any church for that matter.
Abortion is legal in the United States.
The majority of America still wants abortion to be legal and for women to have that choice.
Biden is a guy...he can't have an abortion.

Has Biden ever counseled anyone to have an abortion?

What exactly do you want Biden to do to stop abortions? Does laws against murder stop murder?

Abortion is a societal issue. All we can do is seek to educate those to the alternatives. Contraception, etc. before pregnancy...and adoption or keeping the baby afterward.

As a Christian, I support a women's right to choose because it's the law and I don't have any right to force my religious beliefs on anyone else. That being said, as a guy, I can't have an abortion...and I would never counsel any female to have one unless it was to save her life, or in the cases of incest, rape, or a fetus that was not viable. It's a decision that needs left to the mother, her physician, and her religion. Not mine.

The president is president of the United States, his church affiliation is not relevant.
Abortion is legal in the United States.
The American public is evenly divided on whether on this topic, with less than 30% of the public supporting unrestricted abortions.
Biden is a guy...he can't have an abortion, but he can have children. His opinion should matter.

Has Biden may or may not have directly counseled anyone to have an abortion, but his unbridled support of his parties platform by extension means he has.

I would like for Mr. Biden to verbalize the Christian stance on the horror of abortion, and state publicly he does not support it. His moral position as POTUS may well stop many. Does laws against murder stop murder?, not but public backlash against any issue will reduce the incidence of it.

Abortion is a societal issue based on the morality of the country. All we can do is seek to educate those to the alternatives. Contraception, etc. before pregnancy...and adoption or keeping the baby afterward while continually reminding everyone that aborting a baby stops a human heart.

As a Christian, I do not support women's right to kill a child even though it's the law. I do not have any right to force my religious beliefs on anyone else, but i will NEVER support someone's "choice" in that way. I cannot have an abortion, but my wife or any woman can stop the life of a child without anyone's consent, even the father's, and that's ethically, and morally wrong even if it is not currently illegal. I would never counsel any female to have one ever. period, for any reason. It's a decision that should never be made, certainly not left to the whims of only a mother.

if, as a Christian, you cannot condemn the killing of children, what will you condemn?

fixed it for you.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2021 04:54 PM by Oman.)
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Post: #50
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 02:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That's the whole point in a nutshell.

President Biden is not a Catholic.
Catholic Joe Biden is not the President.

The two need to be separated...as the founders intended.

Then the senile pedophile needs to quit touting how "devout" he is and the media needs to quit regurgitating it. President Pedo, Nancy Pelosi, the insufferable aoc, and a few other liberals like to proclaim how "Catholic" they are when it suits them and the media laps it up.
02-22-2021 11:11 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 11:11 PM)No2rdame Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:31 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  That's the whole point in a nutshell.

President Biden is not a Catholic.
Catholic Joe Biden is not the President.

The two need to be separated...as the founders intended.

Then the senile pedophile needs to quit touting how "devout" he is and the media needs to quit regurgitating it. President Pedo, Nancy Pelosi, the insufferable aoc, and a few other liberals like to proclaim how "Catholic" they are when it suits them and the media laps it up.

Ah the difference between faith and religiosity. One sees the individual through life in humility and service and the other sees the individual looks good for the public they intend to exploit. Is it a surprise that the press never sees the difference? It's very hard to recognize yourself in someone else!
02-22-2021 11:34 PM
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Post: #52
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 02:14 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Most Catholics I know are VERY liberal. Look at their damn pope for example.

They care more about what the government tells them to think & virtue signaling then anything Christ actually calls his followers to do.

Of course 'devout' Biden supports abortion, it's one of the many liberal things Catholics think Christ would support or do. You're not gonna turn any Catholic away from the Left by saying Biden supports abortion, that's all the more reason a Catholic would support Biden.

I may be a fallen Catholic but I still resent being associated even casually to that communist scum. FWIW, most Catholics I know, and I know a lot, are pretty conservative. I do have several family members up north (NJ and NY) who voted for Biden. I was surprised by a few of them doing it although I doubt their votes were driven by ideology rather than an abject hatred of Trump.
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RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 02:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  The president is president of the United States, not the catholic church...or any church for that matter.
Abortion is legal in the United States.
The majority of America still wants abortion to be legal and for women to have that choice.
Biden is a guy...he can't have an abortion.

Has Biden ever counseled anyone to have an abortion?

What exactly do you want Biden to do to stop abortions? Does laws against murder stop murder?

Abortion is a societal issue. All we can do is seek to educate those to the alternatives. Contraception, etc. before pregnancy...and adoption or keeping the baby afterward.

As a Christian, I support a women's right to choose because it's the law and I don't have any right to force my religious beliefs on anyone else. That being said, as a guy, I can't have an abortion...and I would never counsel any female to have one unless it was to save her life, or in the cases of incest, rape, or a fetus that was not viable. It's a decision that needs left to the mother, her physician, and her religion. Not mine.

As a semi spiritual person who believes in the Ten Commandments I can't see how anyone who proclaims themselves Christian can support abortion in any except the most extreme cases.

The person choosing abortion will have to deal with the negative consequences of that individually, a society that chooses to allow such a barbaric practice will have to suffer the consequences collectively.

Take black society for example, they have been stuck on 13% of the population for decades now while abortions have impacted them as a whole significantly more than any other group.
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Post: #54
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 02:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:48 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The point in a nutshell is this IMO:

Catholic Joe Biden is President
Catholics support abortion

Plus you can throw in the agnostics/atheists that are definitely pro-abortion, & you double Biden's incentive to not be against abortion. He's got 2 big voting blocks screaming at him to be pro-abortion.

The idea that "oh Joe Biden just supports abortion b/c the law says it's okay' is a trick to mislead pro-lifers into jumping to the pro-abortion camp.

Nobody is pro-abortion. I don't know of anyone cheering for more abortions.

BS, you know an entire party who support it even if only for some indirectly.
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Post: #55
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 02:57 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:54 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:48 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The point in a nutshell is this IMO:

Catholic Joe Biden is President
Catholics support abortion

Plus you can throw in the agnostics/atheists that are definitely pro-abortion, & you double Biden's incentive to not be against abortion. He's got 2 big voting blocks screaming at him to be pro-abortion.

The idea that "oh Joe Biden just supports abortion b/c the law says it's okay' is a trick to mislead pro-lifers into jumping to the pro-abortion camp.

Nobody is pro-abortion. I don't know of anyone cheering for more abortions.
Get your head out of the sand & go to an abortion rally, dude.

Just stop. They are for abortion rights. The right to have one if they choose.

If you can't see the intrinsic link there then there's little help for you.
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RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 03:06 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:33 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:27 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:14 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Most Catholics I know are VERY liberal. Look at their damn pope for example.

That has less to do with it than understanding that just because you may not agree with a particular topic based on religious beliefs, that doesn't mean that as the leader of a country that is neither Catholic nor Christian, you get to prevent others from choices that you wouldn't necessarily make.

It's not just on abortion Catholics are Liberal on. Go down the list between Conservative viewpoint & Liberal viewpoint. Catholics will favor the Liberal point as a whole

Plus, the method to Liberal's madness isn't to uphold existing laws & you know it.

I think it's pretty clear that on the issue of abortion in this country, upholding existing law is precisely the point. Repubs are the ones who keep trying to move the lines around.

Re: catholics being more liberal in general, if you want to say liberal compared to say, a southern baptist/other evangelical sects, sure. But that's not saying much.

This^
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 03:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 03:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:59 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:52 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 02:43 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Well you are dead wrong on this.

Under no circumstance can a Christian put his faith aside. It would be one thing if Biden said he was personally against abortion in most cases, but he will uphold the current law. Its a far different thing to say he believes abortion is morally right.

That is the problem with the left on this issue, they think the more moral position is wide open abortion. That is the righteous position in their view, its a woman's right and it would be immoral to deny that for her.

So, if we elect a Muslim, you'd be fine with him or her ruling America per their religious faith?

Yeah...didn't think so. So yeah, I'm 100% correct on this.

And nobody is telling him to put his faith aside. But he's running a business if you will in the country, not a church. Peruse the first amendment when you get a chance.


No, you are 100% wrong on this and grossly dishonest as usual.

You're nothing more than a clown.

Piss off. I'm expressing my opinion. If you can't handle it, stop replying to me.


Cry me a river.

Your response was grossly dishonest. Too bad if you don't like me calling you out on it.

Calling me out is not the issue. Calling me out for something you claim I did while not explaining what I did or why you came to that conclusion is an issue. Especially for a self-professed bastion of honesty like yourself.
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SMUstang Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. It is a moral issue. And a Biblical issue. Do Catholic’s believe the Bible? Do they swear allegiance with their hands on the Bible? Do they have a conscience? You can’t have it both ways.
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Post: #59
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
(02-22-2021 03:53 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(02-22-2021 03:26 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  All of you who are anti-choice should be thrilled that Biden is in office, since abortion rates actually drop every time dems are in control.
It's almost as if educating people and birth control programs work.



What a disgusting comment.

First framing the completely unnecessary genocide of millions of innocent babies as "anti-choice", then telling people they should be thankful an openly pro abortion candidate is in office.

Disgusting immoral.


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...residents/

"I think it is an oversimplification to say there is an association between the abortion rate and the political party occupying the White House," said Dr. Daniel Grossman, a professor of obstetrics, gynecology and reproductive sciences at the University of California, San Francisco.

"Many of the policies that might affect the abortion rate vary at the state level. These include things like whether there has been an expansion of programs, including Medicaid, to provide contraception for people living on low incomes, or alternatively, policies that might make it more difficult for clinicians to provide abortion care."

The graphs cites CDC data, but health department reporting on abortions has fluctuated so much over the years that making broad comparisons can prove challenging. Not every state has reported its abortion data for every year.

Moreover, experts said tying the abortion rate to the occupant of the White House alone is an oversimplification of a variety of factors that are at play.

It's not disgusting at all to point out that education & birth control programs work over trying to force one's religious views on others. Biden's catholic faith has zero to do with what his actions re: abortion should be as president. Referring to "anti-choice" is just as offensive as calling the other side "pro-abortion," so we can certainly have a discussion about lowering the temp on that if you want, but I'm sure you don't.

Your link makes my point for me. When leadership doesn't restrict birth control and other programs, the rate of abortions actually drops. Guess which party ISN'T restricting those programs? Hint: it ain't repubs.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 10:08 AM by tigergreen.)
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #60
RE: Devout Biden vs Abortion
As if I remotley claimed education and birth control were disgusting.

Such disingenuous responses make this discussion pretty pointless.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 10:14 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
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