(08-10-2020 05:34 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: (08-09-2020 10:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (08-09-2020 06:42 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote: (08-09-2020 02:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (08-09-2020 10:25 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote: Do you believe the DNI is making up its assessment?
Understand something. Intelligence assessments are almost ALWAYS made up to some extent. You almost never have complete information, so you have to make up at least part of it. You don't have subpoena or other discovery methods, and the other side is trying to conceal information from you, so you can't possibly have a solid case. You get as much data as you can, and then make your best guess. That's one reason why they are called "intelligence estimates." And if the guessers are biased, then the guesses are going to be biased too.
I know of two contrary examples from WWII--Joe Rochefort and Bletchley Park. But both were very extraordinary situations.
Relying on an intelligence assessment as the Gospel truth is a good way to get your ass handed to you.
Of course they’re not gospel, as they are assessments. But there is a stark difference between an assessment founded on evidence that comes to a conclusion and one that is made up.
Frankly, it is impressive that you’re seemingly trying to justify this position by OO, that Dems are making up that Russia is looking to interfere with the 2020 elections, when we have ample evidence they did it in 2016 and we have our intelligence agency saying they will (and already) are doing it again.
You’re drawing an absolutely absurd false equivalency here.
I can absolutely, beyond the remotest shadow of doubt, guarantee you that Russia has been doing all it can to interfere in all aspects of our life, and we in theirs, for decades. Same with China and a few other countries, too. One corollary of that is that Russia, China, and probably others almost certainly hacked Hillary's non-secure servers 10 years ago.
OO's point is not to whether they have tried, but rather to whether their efforts have been effective. And there is little or no evidence to suggest that they have been.
OOs point was also that Democrats were making this up - nothing that you stated argues that the issue is made up by the Dems. As I continue to say, the only way that argument is sound is if the DNI is also completely fabricating things.
And to the point about how Russia has been doing all it can for decades - what changed? Or has our intelligence apparatus always released similar statements for the public? It seems to me that Russia has become more emboldened in how they try to interfere and are using more aggressive and overt methods, which is why the DNI is making public statements listing the explicit ways they see Russia trying to tip the scales.
So you think that was my point?
My point is that democrats will seize upon and build upon the flimsiest of evidence to create a narrative that works against Trump - exactly as you are doing now.
They - and you - are magnifying these comment about Russia, and ignoring any about China and Iran, simply to mount yet another attack on Trump. We went through this for nearly three years with the Russia Collusion Investigation. A Trump minor official spoke to a Russian? Horrors!!! Sound the air raid sirens!!!! This is just more of the same.
You - and the Democrats - cannot point to one person, one precinct, one state that was changed in 2016 - just this nebulous "they messed with us". . Nothing new there - what is new is that you guys lost an election you thought was in the bag, that you didn't think was even close, so it had to be either Russians or extraterrestrials or a witch. So we had the witch hunt, which you - and the Democrats - supports on the flimsiest of made up, perjured evidence.
Gets old after a while. I had hoped that the Boy Crying Russians fiasco would quiet down after the Mueller report, but you - and the Democrats - cling to this old fairytale.
I don't doubt that the Russians - and Iranian, and chineses, and Swedes and Chileans, and Cubans, and Koreans North and South are all trying to sway the electiion in ways they think will benefits themselves. I can see why Iran, for example, wants Biden - in truth, they are like the bulk of the Democrats, they want Anybody But Trump. In that they are no different from you - and the Democrats.
But this is old news. This is the Boy Crying Russians again, and it is all just partisan politics, same ol', same ol'. Some of us have stopped fearing the The Red Scare.
what irks me is how you - and the democrats - sift through reports and statements seizing on what supports (in your minds) the Russian story, and ignoring what else might be in there that doesn't support your Get Trump agenda.
But since you know my point better than I do, go ahead and tell me what irks me.