(06-05-2020 12:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 12:06 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I would also think that 18 complaints is a lot too many complaints to still be on the street.

Thanks Minneapolis Police Union!

Yep..that and them being government employees. You have it doubly hard to remove a bad actor in the PD.

(06-05-2020 12:03 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 11:23 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:07 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:58 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:56 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  This will fail.

I sure hope you're right but they sound pretty serious about it.

I have very liberal family members who live in MN and they will vote no to eliminating a police force. I think this is a case of posturing politicians purporting some kind of solution and a very loud vocal minority proclaiming it to be what's needed.

Is policing/prison reform in some capacity needed? Absolutely. But eliminating the force entirely? Wtf?

What are some viable thoughts on police reforms?

As far as prison reform goes, here are my thoughts:

Mandatory capital punishment for murderers and rapists. This will free up capacity.

Mandatory prison time for all other criminal offenses.
If maximum time is not rendered then sentencing judge or granting parole board members become accountable & responsible for that criminal's future criminal actions once released. Judge/Parole Board members will get prison time based on a percentage of the sentence for the new crimes.


Robber who killed 80-year-old at Houston Walgreens store was out of jail on two felony PR bonds
8:45 AM CDT May 19, 2020

Quote:HOUSTON — A career criminal who had been arrested nearly 70 times has been identified as the man who stabbed a woman shortly before being shot to death by a Houston police officer last weekend.

Randy Roszell Lewis, 38, allegedly stabbed an 80-year-old woman in the chest at a southwest Houston Walgreens shortly before he was shot and killed by a responding officer.

Quote:An officer was flagged down at the Walgreens and confronted Lewis, who police said had a 6-inch blade. When the suspect did not comply with the officer's commands, the officer shot him twice.

Quote:Lewis who attacked Rosalie was out on two felony PR bonds and has an extensive criminal history. He has been arrested nearly 70 times, according to the Houston Police Officers' Union.

Quote:Acevedo echoed his frustration at the murder scene, criticizing bail reform and criminal justice reform in Houston. He said it's "a complete disaster."

By the way, here's the results of "reform".

Quote:n a statement, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office agreed, but pointed blame to the judge on the case:

“The defendant had a history of mental illness and he should have been kept off the streets. He recently absconded from the personal-care facility where the judge ordered he live instead of being held in jail. The judge had not issued a warrant for his arrest even when he had absconded, so police did not even know to look for him and unfortunately this tragedy occurred before he could be returned to court.”

Here's an example of a judge who failed/neglected to protect the public.

What would Lewis have been charged with? First degree murder? Second degree murder? What max prison term would that carry? Let's say 25 years.

The judge at fault should have to serve 10% of that term, 2.5 years. But since Lewis has a lengthy criminal history that percentage should be bumped up to 25%, 6.25 years.

Viable police reforms? More training, more consistency in that training, and a higher chain of command would be three things I'd hit at.

As far as training: Right now in NC, while you can be sworn in after 4 months of training, you couldn't be a licensed barber until after 2 years. The training after that is solely dependent on the individual dept.

That is an example of the profession raising barriers to entry to restrict competition. There's a lot of that where the state screws the consumer. Bad comparison.

(06-05-2020 12:00 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I wonder what the rest of the state thinks?

I've long believed that MN is going to be the surprise state of 2020. Without the 3rd party spoiler of Mcmuffin Trump may very well have won MN in 2016.

How will this play out?

Nah, I don't think so. That state is swarming with the roaches of the Left. The people who vote them in will not change their minds. They aren't very smart and lack a LOT of common sense. I'm watching Outnumbered Overtime and this Black dude Richard whatsisname starts his rambling blaming Trump. Oh yeah, Trump is responsible for a bad cop killing a Black guy. Trump is responsible for all the carnage, looting and vandalism. On the contrary, Trump wanted to send in the National Guard but that idea didn't pan out too well in Uber-Liberal Minnesota.

The status quo will remain because of stupid people that DON'T LEARN A DARN THING and keep making the same ol' mistakes and then trying to pin the blame on everyone else.

(06-05-2020 09:24 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Voting today.

Want money to go to "community programs"

More details to follow.

That's an absolutely brilliant plan that I support 100%. The genius of it is that criminals from all of the other 49 states will see the opportunities afforded them by the people of Minnesota and flock to their state.

What a wonderful benefit for the rest of us.

I applaud Minnesotans for their willingness to sacrifice their peace and security for their sister states! Hip hip hooray!

(06-05-2020 12:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 11:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 11:28 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:48 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:32 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The world is governed by the aggressive use of force. If there is no police, the people most likely to use force are criminals. In response, the citizens will eventually form their own well run and regulated militia for each neighborhood. I mean—who’s going to stop them or arrest them?

In response to the beefed up security in neighborhoods, criminals will organize into large crime syndicates—-think cartels and gangs in order to fight back. Minneapolis will quickly become the murder capital of the world. Unable to secure its people or keep its manufacturing production from being stolen, big corporate business’s will leave quickly. The ensuing Unemployment that results from corporate flight will swell the ranks of the crime syndicates. Legitimate economic activity in the city will collapse and the people who cannot afford to leave will watch helplessly as the Minneapolis descends into anarchy. The crime syndicates in the end will run the city and the syndicate that is most brutal will rise to control it all.

If you didn’t like police brutality—just wait until your governed by a cartel. Minneapolis will one day be a cautionary tale.

Are those the two choices? Why?

Those are the two choices.

If you asking if I am pro-police brutality---of course not. However, it will exist to some extent as a long as humans are on the force. Humans make mistakes. Humans have issues.

Last year, nationwide, in a country of 350 million, there were 9 killings of unarmed African American men by the police. There were 19 police killings of unarmed white men by police. Thats too many needless deaths in my mind--but its not exactly an epidemic. Thats also signficantly lower than it was in 2015 (I believe it 36 unarmed African Americans killed by police).

The video we saw was awful---but to an extent---it seems to me part of the problem there is the use of a detention hold that can be deadly. Nobody has heard of Tony Timpa, but he was killed by Dallas police using a simialr restraint hold. It was white officers on a white suspect---so maybe thats why it wasnt newsworthy to the media---but if you watch the body cam video---they arent mad that the guy---they are actually trying to help him---but they seem to have no clue they are killing him.

Tony Timpa called the police for himself. He was off his meds and knew he needed help.

A security guard had already cuffed him AND zip-tied his legs. He was completely restrained before the police even arrived.

During the time they suffocated him to death, they constantly mocked him.

The charges against those officers were dropped.

They made fun of him some---but there was clearly no animosity or anger. Like you said---there was never any confrontation with the police as he had already been restrained before they got there. They told him multiple times they were tyring to get him some help. Best I can tell they were afraid he might injure himself. Its clear they had no clue they were actually killing him. It looks more like stupidity than brutality.

Sure. But it happened. And there were no riots or protests.

(06-05-2020 12:46 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I don't care what you do to change the MPD or any other...There will still be the occasional fck up. Why? Because officers are human beings and flawed just like everyone else. There are crappy doctors, lawyers, bricklayers, truck drivers, teachers...ect..ect..ect. You can not remove the human element from policing any occupation and you can mark it down...THERE WILL BE MORE KILLINGS AT THE HANDS OF THE POLICE. What is retarded is to go out and burn down businesses because of it. Let the criminal justice system handle it and move the fck on.

Exactly. You dont defund the entire hospital system because a doctor commits malpractice.

(06-05-2020 12:03 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 11:23 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:07 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:58 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:56 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  This will fail.

I sure hope you're right but they sound pretty serious about it.

I have very liberal family members who live in MN and they will vote no to eliminating a police force. I think this is a case of posturing politicians purporting some kind of solution and a very loud vocal minority proclaiming it to be what's needed.

Is policing/prison reform in some capacity needed? Absolutely. But eliminating the force entirely? Wtf?

What are some viable thoughts on police reforms?

As far as prison reform goes, here are my thoughts:

Mandatory capital punishment for murderers and rapists. This will free up capacity.

Mandatory prison time for all other criminal offenses.
If maximum time is not rendered then sentencing judge or granting parole board members become accountable & responsible for that criminal's future criminal actions once released. Judge/Parole Board members will get prison time based on a percentage of the sentence for the new crimes.


Robber who killed 80-year-old at Houston Walgreens store was out of jail on two felony PR bonds
8:45 AM CDT May 19, 2020

Quote:HOUSTON — A career criminal who had been arrested nearly 70 times has been identified as the man who stabbed a woman shortly before being shot to death by a Houston police officer last weekend.

Randy Roszell Lewis, 38, allegedly stabbed an 80-year-old woman in the chest at a southwest Houston Walgreens shortly before he was shot and killed by a responding officer.

Quote:An officer was flagged down at the Walgreens and confronted Lewis, who police said had a 6-inch blade. When the suspect did not comply with the officer's commands, the officer shot him twice.

Quote:Lewis who attacked Rosalie was out on two felony PR bonds and has an extensive criminal history. He has been arrested nearly 70 times, according to the Houston Police Officers' Union.

Quote:Acevedo echoed his frustration at the murder scene, criticizing bail reform and criminal justice reform in Houston. He said it's "a complete disaster."

By the way, here's the results of "reform".

Quote:n a statement, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office agreed, but pointed blame to the judge on the case:

“The defendant had a history of mental illness and he should have been kept off the streets. He recently absconded from the personal-care facility where the judge ordered he live instead of being held in jail. The judge had not issued a warrant for his arrest even when he had absconded, so police did not even know to look for him and unfortunately this tragedy occurred before he could be returned to court.”

Here's an example of a judge who failed/neglected to protect the public.

What would Lewis have been charged with? First degree murder? Second degree murder? What max prison term would that carry? Let's say 25 years.

The judge at fault should have to serve 10% of that term, 2.5 years. But since Lewis has a lengthy criminal history that percentage should be bumped up to 25%, 6.25 years.

Viable police reforms? More training, more consistency in that training, and a higher chain of command would be three things I'd hit at.

As far as training: Right now in NC, while you can be sworn in after 4 months of training, you couldn't be a licensed barber until after 2 years. The training after that is solely dependent on the individual dept.

Rush Limbaugh mentioned this SEVERAL years ago that departments were having to lower requirements. One reason was due to equality laws. Requirements have to be equal for men and women. This means many physical requirements had to be significantly lowered.

Also, as wages rise, funding per officer drops. Along with that entry pay drops, too.


Fewer people meeting the desired/necessary standards were entering the police force.

You want quality law enforcement personnel: bump up the pay.

Also, as we've come to find out, many cities haven't been funding police pensions like they were supposed to.

(06-05-2020 09:53 AM)miko33 Wrote:  The lengths politicians will take to excite their base and/or get votes is becoming more appalling by the day.

When people sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, and to up hold the laws of the United States, are divided over symbols of our freedom and the sacrifice that has gone before, like the flag used to liberate slaves, then you have the house divided. It is the surest omen of some kind of civil conflict there is.

What's so ridiculous however is that if the young knew what these symbols were and represented, even Lee's statue in Virginia, they wouldn't be so outraged. It is a historical fact that the Union won the war and that slavery was ended and the Stars and Stripes flew over that victory. Lee's statue is to remind us all that even great people, and that is what Lee had been until the Civil War, make mistakes and that he represented the one made by the State of Virginia. History is about truth. The removal of it only makes room for lies and misinterpretation of events which is exactly what all of this revisionism is about.

The left thinks that Hispanics (as diverse a group as they are) will somehow rally behind African American radicals in civil conflict. They won't, some might, but nearly a majority. Do they really think that college age brainwashed whites will actually fight? It's a stupid movement that can't end well for anyone. Have we gone so insane and so raged fill that everyone can't see this? Even if all 14% of of the population revolted what's the upside? More death and misery than even imagined and all of it needless. And in the end they lose. Most African Americans know this and won't participate. Our fight isn't with each other, it is with the erosion of individual rights foisted upon us by corporations and technology. The police incidents are pretty much on line with the demographic breakdown of the country. All of us stand to be harmed by a bad cop. But out of all of the arrests in the nation that is still a statistical anomaly hardly representative of widespread police brutality or corruption. It is as some have said indicative of piss poor training and screening procedures.

Everyone needs to step back and think this through and the go after the organizers inciting insurrection which is a felony, and those who back them, because they are trying to exploit regrettable events and conflate them into civil war. They are the enemy! Not each other.

It's all insane and its high time the common people of this nation made their feelings heard over the din of bullsheise coming out of Congress and anti American organizers who both work for the corporations behind this.

(06-05-2020 09:44 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  Do you remember Snake Pliskin - Escape from New York?

They need to build a wall around Minneapolis and keep everyone in, that lawlessness stuff will spread from the like wildfire/

Mentioned that old flick last week. Certainly what things are starting to look like.

My Dad's family was from St. Paul, likely see my Grandfathers Church which he founded himself in 1924 get torched. If this isn't the definition of dumb I don't know what is. Someone track U-haul rentals to and from the Twin Cities. Crooks in, normal people out.

(06-05-2020 12:49 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 12:03 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 11:23 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:07 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:58 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I sure hope you're right but they sound pretty serious about it.

I have very liberal family members who live in MN and they will vote no to eliminating a police force. I think this is a case of posturing politicians purporting some kind of solution and a very loud vocal minority proclaiming it to be what's needed.

Is policing/prison reform in some capacity needed? Absolutely. But eliminating the force entirely? Wtf?

What are some viable thoughts on police reforms?

As far as prison reform goes, here are my thoughts:

Mandatory capital punishment for murderers and rapists. This will free up capacity.

Mandatory prison time for all other criminal offenses.
If maximum time is not rendered then sentencing judge or granting parole board members become accountable & responsible for that criminal's future criminal actions once released. Judge/Parole Board members will get prison time based on a percentage of the sentence for the new crimes.


Robber who killed 80-year-old at Houston Walgreens store was out of jail on two felony PR bonds
8:45 AM CDT May 19, 2020

Quote:HOUSTON — A career criminal who had been arrested nearly 70 times has been identified as the man who stabbed a woman shortly before being shot to death by a Houston police officer last weekend.

Randy Roszell Lewis, 38, allegedly stabbed an 80-year-old woman in the chest at a southwest Houston Walgreens shortly before he was shot and killed by a responding officer.

Quote:An officer was flagged down at the Walgreens and confronted Lewis, who police said had a 6-inch blade. When the suspect did not comply with the officer's commands, the officer shot him twice.

Quote:Lewis who attacked Rosalie was out on two felony PR bonds and has an extensive criminal history. He has been arrested nearly 70 times, according to the Houston Police Officers' Union.

Quote:Acevedo echoed his frustration at the murder scene, criticizing bail reform and criminal justice reform in Houston. He said it's "a complete disaster."

By the way, here's the results of "reform".

Quote:n a statement, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office agreed, but pointed blame to the judge on the case:

“The defendant had a history of mental illness and he should have been kept off the streets. He recently absconded from the personal-care facility where the judge ordered he live instead of being held in jail. The judge had not issued a warrant for his arrest even when he had absconded, so police did not even know to look for him and unfortunately this tragedy occurred before he could be returned to court.”

Here's an example of a judge who failed/neglected to protect the public.

What would Lewis have been charged with? First degree murder? Second degree murder? What max prison term would that carry? Let's say 25 years.

The judge at fault should have to serve 10% of that term, 2.5 years. But since Lewis has a lengthy criminal history that percentage should be bumped up to 25%, 6.25 years.

Viable police reforms? More training, more consistency in that training, and a higher chain of command would be three things I'd hit at.

As far as training: Right now in NC, while you can be sworn in after 4 months of training, you couldn't be a licensed barber until after 2 years. The training after that is solely dependent on the individual dept.

That is an example of the profession raising barriers to entry to restrict competition. There's a lot of that where the state screws the consumer. Bad comparison.

I'd agree if this was a discussion about economics, but fact still remains that their training is super short. Plumbers and everyone else require longer training.

But if you want to go more apples to apples: the Highway Patrol requires a minimum of 12 weeks of training (if you're already certified) or 27 weeks if you're new and they do relatively less than your local PD or SO will have to do.

(06-05-2020 10:24 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Let the community of Somali immigrants in the twin cities organize community policing. That worked well the last place they lived.

Yep. Why did they bother coming here again?

Insanity.

(06-05-2020 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:53 AM)miko33 Wrote:  The lengths politicians will take to excite their base and/or get votes is becoming more appalling by the day.

When people sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, and to up hold the laws of the United States, are divided over symbols of our freedom and the sacrifice that has gone before, like the flag used to liberate slaves, then you have the house divided. It is the surest omen of some kind of civil conflict there is.

What's so ridiculous however is that if the young knew what these symbols were and represented, even Lee's statue in Virginia, they wouldn't be so outraged. It is a historical fact that the Union won the war and that slavery was ended and the Stars and Stripes flew over that victory. Lee's statue is to remind us all that even great people, and that is what Lee had been until the Civil War, make mistakes and that he represented the one made by the State of Virginia. History is about truth. The removal of it only makes room for lies and misinterpretation of events which is exactly what all of this revisionism is about.

The left thinks that Hispanics (as diverse a group as they are) will somehow rally behind African American radicals in civil conflict. They won't, some might, but nearly a majority. Do they really think that college age brainwashed whites will actually fight? It's a stupid movement that can't end well for anyone. Have we gone so insane and so raged fill that everyone can't see this? Even if all 14% of of the population revolted what's the upside? More death and misery than even imagined and all of it needless. And in the end they lose. Most African Americans know this and won't participate. Our fight isn't with each other, it is with the erosion of individual rights foisted upon us by corporations and technology. The police incidents are pretty much on line with the demographic breakdown of the country. All of us stand to be harmed by a bad cop. But out of all of the arrests in the nation that is still a statistical anomaly hardly representative of widespread police brutality or corruption. It is as some have said indicative of piss poor training and screening procedures.

Everyone needs to step back and think this through and the go after the organizers inciting insurrection which is a felony, and those who back them, because they are trying to exploit regrettable events and conflate them into civil war. They are the enemy! Not each other.

It's all insane and its high time the common people of this nation made their feelings heard over the din of bullsheise coming out of Congress and anti American organizers who both work for the corporations behind this.

Most people fail to understand just how important Lee's (and Johnston's) surrender was to bringing the nation back together.

(06-05-2020 01:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Exactly. You dont defund the entire hospital system because a doctor commits malpractice.

That's a REALLY good analogy.

(06-05-2020 11:44 AM)solohawks Wrote:  The sheriff's department of Hennepin county better prepare for a big influx of calls

They actually pass something as stupid and reckless as this, I'd simply resign my Sheriff-ship and relocate. You can be a Cop anywhere, someone will hire you.

If Minneapolis and LA both do this, you will have two competing national crime syndicates within a year with one centered in each city.

Criminal operations will be national with the profits running back to the untouchable cities. Criminals will do their thing and return to the home cities for refuge when needed.

The amount of money they pull in will enable them to buy the politicians in their cities. Within five years we will have a problem bigger than prohibition.

This is has the potential to be really, really nasty.

Advertisements next year: "LA policing now brought to you by the Crips or Bloods depending on your local service area!"

(06-05-2020 01:32 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:53 AM)miko33 Wrote:  The lengths politicians will take to excite their base and/or get votes is becoming more appalling by the day.

When people sworn to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, and to up hold the laws of the United States, are divided over symbols of our freedom and the sacrifice that has gone before, like the flag used to liberate slaves, then you have the house divided. It is the surest omen of some kind of civil conflict there is.

What's so ridiculous however is that if the young knew what these symbols were and represented, even Lee's statue in Virginia, they wouldn't be so outraged. It is a historical fact that the Union won the war and that slavery was ended and the Stars and Stripes flew over that victory. Lee's statue is to remind us all that even great people, and that is what Lee had been until the Civil War, make mistakes and that he represented the one made by the State of Virginia. History is about truth. The removal of it only makes room for lies and misinterpretation of events which is exactly what all of this revisionism is about.

The left thinks that Hispanics (as diverse a group as they are) will somehow rally behind African American radicals in civil conflict. They won't, some might, but nearly a majority. Do they really think that college age brainwashed whites will actually fight? It's a stupid movement that can't end well for anyone. Have we gone so insane and so raged fill that everyone can't see this? Even if all 14% of of the population revolted what's the upside? More death and misery than even imagined and all of it needless. And in the end they lose. Most African Americans know this and won't participate. Our fight isn't with each other, it is with the erosion of individual rights foisted upon us by corporations and technology. The police incidents are pretty much on line with the demographic breakdown of the country. All of us stand to be harmed by a bad cop. But out of all of the arrests in the nation that is still a statistical anomaly hardly representative of widespread police brutality or corruption. It is as some have said indicative of piss poor training and screening procedures.

Everyone needs to step back and think this through and the go after the organizers inciting insurrection which is a felony, and those who back them, because they are trying to exploit regrettable events and conflate them into civil war. They are the enemy! Not each other.

It's all insane and its high time the common people of this nation made their feelings heard over the din of bullsheise coming out of Congress and anti American organizers who both work for the corporations behind this.

Most people fail to understand just how important Lee's (and Johnston's) surrender was to bringing the nation back together.

Precisely. But the main thrust of my comments were directed at the failure of, again, public education to teach these kids the truth and reason behind anything! The intellectual vacuum created by the failure to teach is being filled with all kinds of garbage and destructive materials.

(06-05-2020 12:47 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 12:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 12:06 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I would also think that 18 complaints is a lot too many complaints to still be on the street.

Thanks Minneapolis Police Union!

Yep..that and them being government employees. You have it doubly hard to remove a bad actor in the PD.

It's not hard to remove government employees. We had a relatively easy time firing employees who screwed up, and one former Colonel of the SC Highway Patrol made it policy that either he or a member of his command staff would go and immediately terminate any employee, sworn or civilian, who was arrested when they were notified. There were a number of Troopers who were fired through the doors of their cells while awaiting a bond hearing.

(06-05-2020 02:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  If Minneapolis and LA both do this, you will have two competing national crime syndicates within a year with one centered in each city.

Criminal operations will be national with the profits running back to the untouchable cities. Criminals will do their thing and return to the home cities for refuge when needed.

The amount of money they pull in will enable them to buy the politicians in their cities. Within five years we will have a problem bigger than prohibition.

This is has the potential to be really, really nasty.

Any police officer with a brain already has his resume out to surrounding agencies. It will gut the police force whether this passes or not.

(06-05-2020 04:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 02:39 PM)Claw Wrote:  If Minneapolis and LA both do this, you will have two competing national crime syndicates within a year with one centered in each city.

Criminal operations will be national with the profits running back to the untouchable cities. Criminals will do their thing and return to the home cities for refuge when needed.

The amount of money they pull in will enable them to buy the politicians in their cities. Within five years we will have a problem bigger than prohibition.

This is has the potential to be really, really nasty.

Any police officer with a brain already has his resume out to surrounding agencies. It will gut the police force whether this passes or not.

They'll be renaming Minneapolis to Mogadishu!