Im always hesitant to use the word "retarded" to describe anything..but..in this case it is completely appropriate.

(06-05-2020 10:07 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:58 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:56 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  This will fail.

I sure hope you're right but they sound pretty serious about it.

I have very liberal family members who live in MN and they will vote no to eliminating a police force. I think this is a case of posturing politicians purporting some kind of solution and a very loud vocal minority proclaiming it to be what's needed.

Is policing/prison reform in some capacity needed? Absolutely. But eliminating the force entirely? Wtf?

Agreed. Even police will tell you that there needs to be policing reform. That's not going to get done with no department.

(06-05-2020 09:53 AM)miko33 Wrote:  The lengths politicians will take to excite their base and/or get votes is becoming more appalling by the day.

It's the same as it's ever been. Now's as good of a time to really do something about it as any, but I'm predicting that we'll just keep being appalled.

Let the community of Somali immigrants in the twin cities organize community policing. That worked well the last place they lived.

As the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for... you just might get it.

Thinking it out, it might be good for one of these communities to experiment with this so the public at large can learn/re-learn the importance of law enforcement.

The world is governed by the aggressive use of force. If there is no police, the people most likely to use force are criminals. In response, the citizens will eventually form their own well run and regulated militia for each neighborhood. I mean—who’s going to stop them or arrest them?

In response to the beefed up security in neighborhoods, criminals will organize into large crime syndicates—-think cartels and gangs in order to fight back. Minneapolis will quickly become the murder capital of the world. Unable to secure its people or keep its manufacturing production from being stolen, big corporate business’s will leave quickly. The ensuing Unemployment that results from corporate flight will swell the ranks of the crime syndicates. Legitimate economic activity in the city will collapse and the people who cannot afford to leave will watch helplessly as the Minneapolis descends into anarchy. The crime syndicates in the end will run the city and the syndicate that is most brutal will rise to control it all.

If you didn’t like police brutality—just wait until your governed by a cartel. Minneapolis will one day be a cautionary tale.

Well, if this passes (long shot) I would seriously consider bringing my gun every time I went to Minneapolis.

Also another consequence would be a massive flight out of Minneapolis for the suburbs or maybe St. Paul, assuming they don't do the same thing.

(06-05-2020 09:24 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Voting today.

Want money to go to "community programs"

More details to follow.

Insanity. The inmates are in charge of the asylum.

(06-05-2020 10:32 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The world is governed by the aggressive use of force. If there is no police, the people most likely to use force are criminals. In response, the citizens will eventually form their own well run and regulated militia for each neighborhood. I mean—who’s going to stop them or arrest them?

In response to the beefed up security in neighborhoods, criminals will organize into large crime syndicates—-think cartels and gangs in order to fight back. Minneapolis will quickly become the murder capital of the world. Unable to secure its people or keep its manufacturing production from being stolen, big corporate business’s will leave quickly. The ensuing Unemployment that results from corporate flight will swell the ranks of the crime syndicates. Legitimate economic activity in the city will collapse and the people who cannot afford to leave will watch helplessly as the Minneapolis descends into anarchy. The crime syndicates in the end will run the city and the syndicate that is most brutal will rise to control it all.

If you didn’t like police brutality—just wait until your governed by a cartel. Minneapolis will one day be a cautionary tale.

Are those the two choices? Why?

Perhaps they should consult their comrades in Baltimore and ask them how well things turned out for them when the Baltimore PD gave the people what they demanded after Freddie Gray and went to a reactive policing model. It didn't take long for all the same people complaining about "police being occupying forces in our neighborhoods" to switch to complaining about the police not patrolling their neighborhoods and crime running rampant.

(06-05-2020 09:55 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Good. Look at local budgets around the country and every other line item gets slashed across the board while police spending continues to rise like crazy. I know this opinion won't be popular on here but oh well. I'm starting to change my opinion on guns, and seeing a whole lot of leftist saying the exact same things, but not to protect ourselves from criminals but from the military police.

If this indeed happens, you best change your opinion on guns. You will need one.

And not just change your opinion on guns, but on the TYPES of guns and other weapons.

Need to take out an armored personnel carrier? A pistol ain't gonna get it.

(06-05-2020 10:08 AM)Crebman Wrote:  My guess... the elected leftists are seeing who can out virtue signal the other. I will be surprised if they actually do anything more than posture and pontificate about it.

With that said, given I don’t live anywhere close......go right ahead and eliminate the police. Be the trial run test case for “sending in the social workers” to talk the criminals into good behavior.

Locally is where to try goofy stuff, so if/when if fails miserably, only that locality bears the brunt........I’d be feeling very uneasy right now if I lived anywhere close to Minneapolis/St Paul.....

Maybe they see Minnesota turning red and want to drive conservatives over to Wisconsin, Iowa and North Dakota.

Minneapolis is one of the most gentrified cities in the country. I suspect they will quickly sink to Chicago level if this passes.

(06-05-2020 10:16 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Im always hesitant to use the word "retarded" to describe anything..but..in this case it is completely appropriate.

It fits for anyone even seriously discussing it.

(06-05-2020 11:05 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:55 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Good. Look at local budgets around the country and every other line item gets slashed across the board while police spending continues to rise like crazy. I know this opinion won't be popular on here but oh well. I'm starting to change my opinion on guns, and seeing a whole lot of leftist saying the exact same things, but not to protect ourselves from criminals but from the military police.

If this indeed happens, you best change your opinion on guns. You will need one.

And not just change your opinion on guns, but on the TYPES of guns and other weapons.

Need to take out an armored personnel carrier? A pistol ain't gonna get it.

Well, I don't have anything to take out an armored personnel carrier, but I'm not bringing a pistol to a pistol fight either. :)

(06-05-2020 10:07 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:58 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:56 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  This will fail.

I sure hope you're right but they sound pretty serious about it.

I have very liberal family members who live in MN and they will vote no to eliminating a police force. I think this is a case of posturing politicians purporting some kind of solution and a very loud vocal minority proclaiming it to be what's needed.

Is policing/prison reform in some capacity needed? Absolutely. But eliminating the force entirely? Wtf?

What are some viable thoughts on police reforms?

As far as prison reform goes, here are my thoughts:

Mandatory capital punishment for murderers and rapists. This will free up capacity.

Mandatory prison time for all other criminal offenses.
If maximum time is not rendered then sentencing judge or granting parole board members become accountable & responsible for that criminal's future criminal actions once released. Judge/Parole Board members will get prison time based on a percentage of the sentence for the new crimes.


Robber who killed 80-year-old at Houston Walgreens store was out of jail on two felony PR bonds
8:45 AM CDT May 19, 2020

Quote:HOUSTON — A career criminal who had been arrested nearly 70 times has been identified as the man who stabbed a woman shortly before being shot to death by a Houston police officer last weekend.

Randy Roszell Lewis, 38, allegedly stabbed an 80-year-old woman in the chest at a southwest Houston Walgreens shortly before he was shot and killed by a responding officer.

Quote:An officer was flagged down at the Walgreens and confronted Lewis, who police said had a 6-inch blade. When the suspect did not comply with the officer's commands, the officer shot him twice.

Quote:Lewis who attacked Rosalie was out on two felony PR bonds and has an extensive criminal history. He has been arrested nearly 70 times, according to the Houston Police Officers' Union.

Quote:Acevedo echoed his frustration at the murder scene, criticizing bail reform and criminal justice reform in Houston. He said it's "a complete disaster."

By the way, here's the results of "reform".

Quote:n a statement, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office agreed, but pointed blame to the judge on the case:

“The defendant had a history of mental illness and he should have been kept off the streets. He recently absconded from the personal-care facility where the judge ordered he live instead of being held in jail. The judge had not issued a warrant for his arrest even when he had absconded, so police did not even know to look for him and unfortunately this tragedy occurred before he could be returned to court.”

Here's an example of a judge who failed/neglected to protect the public.

What would Lewis have been charged with? First degree murder? Second degree murder? What max prison term would that carry? Let's say 25 years.

The judge at fault should have to serve 10% of that term, 2.5 years. But since Lewis has a lengthy criminal history that percentage should be bumped up to 25%, 6.25 years.

(06-05-2020 11:15 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 11:05 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:55 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:52 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Good. Look at local budgets around the country and every other line item gets slashed across the board while police spending continues to rise like crazy. I know this opinion won't be popular on here but oh well. I'm starting to change my opinion on guns, and seeing a whole lot of leftist saying the exact same things, but not to protect ourselves from criminals but from the military police.

If this indeed happens, you best change your opinion on guns. You will need one.

And not just change your opinion on guns, but on the TYPES of guns and other weapons.

Need to take out an armored personnel carrier? A pistol ain't gonna get it.

Well, I don't have anything to take out an armored personnel carrier, but I'm not bringing a pistol to a pistol fight either. :)

And that's the point! You want to always outgun your opponent.

(06-05-2020 11:23 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:07 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:58 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 09:56 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  This will fail.

I sure hope you're right but they sound pretty serious about it.

I have very liberal family members who live in MN and they will vote no to eliminating a police force. I think this is a case of posturing politicians purporting some kind of solution and a very loud vocal minority proclaiming it to be what's needed.

Is policing/prison reform in some capacity needed? Absolutely. But eliminating the force entirely? Wtf?

What are some viable thoughts on police reforms?

As far as prison reform goes, here are my thoughts:

Mandatory capital punishment for murderers and rapists. This will free up capacity.

Mandatory prison time for all other criminal offenses.
If maximum time is not rendered then sentencing judge or granting parole board members become accountable & responsible for that criminal's future criminal actions once released. Judge/Parole Board members will get prison time based on a percentage of the sentence for the new crimes.


Robber who killed 80-year-old at Houston Walgreens store was out of jail on two felony PR bonds
8:45 AM CDT May 19, 2020

Quote:HOUSTON — A career criminal who had been arrested nearly 70 times has been identified as the man who stabbed a woman shortly before being shot to death by a Houston police officer last weekend.

Randy Roszell Lewis, 38, allegedly stabbed an 80-year-old woman in the chest at a southwest Houston Walgreens shortly before he was shot and killed by a responding officer.

Quote:An officer was flagged down at the Walgreens and confronted Lewis, who police said had a 6-inch blade. When the suspect did not comply with the officer's commands, the officer shot him twice.

Quote:Lewis who attacked Rosalie was out on two felony PR bonds and has an extensive criminal history. He has been arrested nearly 70 times, according to the Houston Police Officers' Union.

Quote:Acevedo echoed his frustration at the murder scene, criticizing bail reform and criminal justice reform in Houston. He said it's "a complete disaster."

By the way, here's the results of "reform".

Quote:n a statement, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office agreed, but pointed blame to the judge on the case:

“The defendant had a history of mental illness and he should have been kept off the streets. He recently absconded from the personal-care facility where the judge ordered he live instead of being held in jail. The judge had not issued a warrant for his arrest even when he had absconded, so police did not even know to look for him and unfortunately this tragedy occurred before he could be returned to court.”

Here's an example of a judge who failed/neglected to protect the public.

What would Lewis have been charged with? First degree murder? Second degree murder? What max prison term would that carry? Let's say 25 years.

The judge at fault should have to serve 10% of that term, 2.5 years. But since Lewis has a lengthy criminal history that percentage should be bumped up to 25%, 6.25 years.

There are examples all over the country, even in the south like Atlanta and Dallas, where far left, often Soros funded AGs let criminals run free to terrorize cities, especially the poor Black parts of the cities.

The 80/20 rule applies to criminals. There are a few criminals who do a huge amount of the crime. One guy in Atlanta had nearly 50 arrests with many of them awaiting trial and he was running free doing more crimes.

(06-05-2020 10:48 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:32 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The world is governed by the aggressive use of force. If there is no police, the people most likely to use force are criminals. In response, the citizens will eventually form their own well run and regulated militia for each neighborhood. I mean—who’s going to stop them or arrest them?

In response to the beefed up security in neighborhoods, criminals will organize into large crime syndicates—-think cartels and gangs in order to fight back. Minneapolis will quickly become the murder capital of the world. Unable to secure its people or keep its manufacturing production from being stolen, big corporate business’s will leave quickly. The ensuing Unemployment that results from corporate flight will swell the ranks of the crime syndicates. Legitimate economic activity in the city will collapse and the people who cannot afford to leave will watch helplessly as the Minneapolis descends into anarchy. The crime syndicates in the end will run the city and the syndicate that is most brutal will rise to control it all.

If you didn’t like police brutality—just wait until your governed by a cartel. Minneapolis will one day be a cautionary tale.

Are those the two choices? Why?

Those are the two choices.

If you asking if I am pro-police brutality---of course not. However, it will exist to some extent as a long as humans are on the force. Humans make mistakes. Humans have issues. If you have a 3,000 cops---there is probably going to be one that maybe shouldnt be a cop.

Last year, nationwide, in a country of 350 million, there were 9 killings of unarmed African American men by the police. There were 19 police killings of unarmed white men by police. Thats too many needless deaths in my mind--but its not exactly an epidemic. Thats also signficantly lower than it was in 2015 (I believe it 36 unarmed African Americans killed by police). When it come to police brutality---I'd say we are clearly doing more right that wrong.

The video we saw was awful---but to an extent---it seems to me part of the problem there is the use of a restraint hold that can be deadly. Nobody has heard of Tony Timpa, but he was killed by Dallas police using a similar restraint hold. In Timpa's case---he was on drugs and out of control. The white officers and a white suspect---so--no racial element. Maybe thats why it wasnt newsworthy to the media---but if you watch the body cam video---the police arent mad that the guy---they are actually trying to get him to help--but they seem to have no clue they are killing him.

(06-05-2020 11:28 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:48 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-05-2020 10:32 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The world is governed by the aggressive use of force. If there is no police, the people most likely to use force are criminals. In response, the citizens will eventually form their own well run and regulated militia for each neighborhood. I mean—who’s going to stop them or arrest them?

In response to the beefed up security in neighborhoods, criminals will organize into large crime syndicates—-think cartels and gangs in order to fight back. Minneapolis will quickly become the murder capital of the world. Unable to secure its people or keep its manufacturing production from being stolen, big corporate business’s will leave quickly. The ensuing Unemployment that results from corporate flight will swell the ranks of the crime syndicates. Legitimate economic activity in the city will collapse and the people who cannot afford to leave will watch helplessly as the Minneapolis descends into anarchy. The crime syndicates in the end will run the city and the syndicate that is most brutal will rise to control it all.

If you didn’t like police brutality—just wait until your governed by a cartel. Minneapolis will one day be a cautionary tale.

Are those the two choices? Why?

Those are the two choices.

If you asking if I am pro-police brutality---of course not. However, it will exist to some extent as a long as humans are on the force. Humans make mistakes. Humans have issues.

Last year, nationwide, in a country of 350 million, there were 9 killings of unarmed African American men by the police. There were 19 police killings of unarmed white men by police. Thats too many needless deaths in my mind--but its not exactly an epidemic. Thats also signficantly lower than it was in 2015 (I believe it 36 unarmed African Americans killed by police).

The video we saw was awful---but to an extent---it seems to me part of the problem there is the use of a detention hold that can be deadly. Nobody has heard of Tony Timpa, but he was killed by Dallas police using a simialr restraint hold. It was white officers on a white suspect---so maybe thats why it wasnt newsworthy to the media---but if you watch the body cam video---they arent mad that the guy---they are actually trying to help him---but they seem to have no clue they are killing him.

Tony Timpa called the police for himself. He was off his meds and knew he needed help.

A security guard had already cuffed him AND zip-tied his legs. He was completely restrained before the police even arrived.

During the time they suffocated him to death, they constantly mocked him.

The charges against those officers were dropped.

(06-05-2020 11:32 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Tony Timpa called the police for himself. He was off his meds and knew he needed help.

A security guard had already cuffed him AND zip-tied his legs. He was completely restrained before the police even arrived.

During the time they suffocated him to death, they constantly mocked him.

The charges against those officers were dropped.

And absolutely no one in the media ever cared.