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theultimateaggie Offline
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Post: #21
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 11:51 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar was not brought up in the conversation I had with my source. Only SLC teams that were mentioned were Sam, SFA, ACU, and adding WT.

I guess the question is how long ago did you talk to your source? I know a few years back there was talk that Incarnate Word’s long term goal was FBS but never heard anything else after that.
04-22-2020 12:10 PM
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jukeboxhero Offline
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Post: #22
RE: WAC Football
In the WAC...

NMSU has FBS football... staying independent & staying FBS for the foreseeable future. They'll likely be an independent for the next 20+ years, or until there is another major round of FBS conference re-alignment.

Dixie State and Tarleton State both have FCS football... both likely staying independent & FCS level for the foreseeable future. Or at least until WAC has enough members to support sponsoring FCS level football as a conference sport. Or unless either university can get their football team affiliated with another conference (Pioneer, MVC, SLC or something else).

Utah Valley has fans who have rumored creating a football team. UVU hasn't officially supported it yet.

UTRGV has fans clamoring for a football team, as there's no other college football in that part of football crazy Texas... nothing unless you drive 200+ miles north to UTSA. In 2016, UTRGV hired Mack Brown to conduct a football feasibility study. To the best of my knowledge, the results of that study were never made public. What does that say?

WAC needs more schools interested in creating a football conference to ever have football again. Even at the FCS level, they only have 2: Dixie & Tarleton, with 2 more possible (not probable) schools: UVU & UTRGV.

NMSU would be insane to drop down to FCS. Never gonna happen.

How about the other WAC members? Would any ever sponsor football?
- Seattle U: not likely
- Cal Baptist: not likely
- Chicago State: not in a bazillion years
- Grand Canyon: possible but not likely

WAC needs to keep searching for Division 2 football playing schools that are likely to move up to FCS. They did good with Dixie State & Tarleton State. They need to keep moving in that direction!
04-22-2020 12:26 PM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: WAC Football
The WAC holds the path for an FBS league so I don't see them forfeiting FBS to have fcs. SU CBU GCU will not get into the business of football.
04-22-2020 12:47 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.
04-22-2020 02:04 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: WAC Football
So is it possible that Tarleton and Dixie play an independent schedule for a few years, ride out the Covid-effect, while the WAC commish convinces other D2/SLC teams to jump ship and start up a resurrected FBS conference, aka WAC 2.0? Seems doable, and Tarleton's WAC move could indeed be with FBS intentions. Very interesting, indeed! Tarleton would need to re-up the Memorial Stadium capacity to 15k for FBS eligibility, which they're already planning to do. Dixie would need to as well. That would almost certainly exclude a WTAMU to WAC move, as they just poured millions into their new on-campus Buffalo Stadium (capacity 8,500)..ACU stadium only holds 12k. In fact, if 15k capacity is the FBS threshold, I imagine we can scratch several SLC teams off the list, and it becomes more clear who could realistically take the leap with us.
04-22-2020 02:24 PM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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Post: #26
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 12:10 PM)theultimateaggie Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 11:51 AM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar was not brought up in the conversation I had with my source. Only SLC teams that were mentioned were Sam, SFA, ACU, and adding WT.

I guess the question is how long ago did you talk to your source? I know a few years back there was talk that Incarnate Word’s long term goal was FBS but never heard anything else after that.

October was that coversation. UTRGV was brought up about bringing back football.

Itinerant Texan: Memorial Stadium's current visitor side (berm side) will be completely demoed and redone... I envision something similar to WT's new digs with suites. I have already discussed that and the field house renovation coming soon.
04-22-2020 03:32 PM
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edinburger Online
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Post: #27
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) ...

Restart? Do you know some history that I don't?
04-22-2020 03:56 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.

I'm sorry I missed this. Everything you and wisdomgymrat are saying is making total and complete sense to me now. I've seen the light. I think a WAC FBS resurrection is definitely the master plan, comprised of LSC move-ups, SLC defectors, NMSU, maybe UTRGV, and....what about pulling in a few teams from Big Sky?
04-22-2020 04:09 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: WAC Football
The key to a successful WAC FCS League lies in Texas. They need schools on the Lone Star Conference to move up. of course, getting a few existing schools to start the sport would help.

The A&M system could decide to try and park their larger campuses in the WAC. Tarleton St is already there. WTAMU, A&M Kingsville, A&M Commerce, and A&M CC could join them.
04-22-2020 04:44 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #30
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.

Please post a recent article stating that Lamar “wants FBS”. While you’re at it, please post articles for Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, and Incarnate Word “wanting FBS” as well. UIW had less than 3,000 fans at their last home game and plays in a 6,000 seat stadium, but yeah they want FBS football. Okay Dave
04-22-2020 05:38 PM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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Post: #31
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 05:38 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.

Please post a recent article stating that Lamar “wants FBS”. While you’re at it, please post articles for Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, and Incarnate Word “wanting FBS” as well. UIW had less than 3,000 fans at their last home game and plays in a 6,000 seat stadium, but yeah they want FBS football. Okay Dave


I totally agree with you. Incarnate Word will never... I repeat NEVER get an FBS invite. UTSA took that money market.

COVID-19 halted all talks for now. I really don't see the current football playing schools, nor the possible SLC defectors going FBS as well. If the WAC gets football again, It will be FCS only. Maybe...years and years down the road... get to FBS.
04-22-2020 06:06 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #32
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 03:56 PM)edinburger Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) ...

Restart? Do you know some history that I don't?

They had football when they were a junior college long time ago. Edinburg Junior College dropped football in the late 1940s. Later they became a 4 year school, named changed to Texas-Pan American and now UTRGV.
04-22-2020 06:32 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The key to a successful WAC FCS League lies in Texas. They need schools on the Lone Star Conference to move up. of course, getting a few existing schools to start the sport would help.

The A&M system could decide to try and park their larger campuses in the WAC. Tarleton St is already there. WTAMU, A&M Kingsville, A&M Commerce, and A&M CC could join them.

Midwestern State is an Independent state school not connected to any of the other systems in the state.
04-22-2020 06:45 PM
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chrisattsu Offline
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Post: #34
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 06:06 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 05:38 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.

Please post a recent article stating that Lamar “wants FBS”. While you’re at it, please post articles for Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, and Incarnate Word “wanting FBS” as well. UIW had less than 3,000 fans at their last home game and plays in a 6,000 seat stadium, but yeah they want FBS football. Okay Dave


I totally agree with you. Incarnate Word will never... I repeat NEVER get an FBS invite. UTSA took that money market.

COVID-19 halted all talks for now. I really don't see the current football playing schools, nor the possible SLC defectors going FBS as well. If the WAC gets football again, It will be FCS only. Maybe...years and years down the road... get to FBS.
UIW didn't have football for years. They started it with promise of getting a membership in the Lone Star Conference.

After a couple of years they began eying FCS. They supposedly disliked the rural / podunk conference mates and took the opportunity to backfill UTsA in the Southland when they joined the WAC in 2012.

Before Tarleton moved up I fell UIW would be better served by the WAC if they want a larger market footprint. They offer many of the WAC Sports. They put the league back in San Antonio and they are convenient to RGV, TSU and any NMSU alumni in Central Texas.

That said, Tom Benson (former New Orleans Saints Owner and their big donor)is dead), and their fans are apathetic.
Their facilities are BAD. Like if Tarleton plays in a HS Gym, they play in a HS cafeteria bad.

The casual fan isn't flocking to UIW when there is a crowded market with UTSA, TXST and the 800 lb gorilla in Austin are nearby
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2020 06:57 PM by chrisattsu.)
04-22-2020 06:50 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #35
RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 06:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The key to a successful WAC FCS League lies in Texas. They need schools on the Lone Star Conference to move up. of course, getting a few existing schools to start the sport would help.

The A&M system could decide to try and park their larger campuses in the WAC. Tarleton St is already there. WTAMU, A&M Kingsville, A&M Commerce, and A&M CC could join them.

Midwestern State is an Independent state school not connected to any of the other systems in the state.

I know they aren’t in the A&M system and they weren’t on my list—I literally listed 4 schools with A&M in their names.
04-22-2020 08:18 PM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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RE: WAC Football
This guy ^ knows things
04-22-2020 08:23 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 05:38 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.

Please post a recent article stating that Lamar “wants FBS”. While you’re at it, please post articles for Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, and Incarnate Word “wanting FBS” as well. UIW had less than 3,000 fans at their last home game and plays in a 6,000 seat stadium, but yeah they want FBS football. Okay Dave

I haven't seen any FBS articles about Lamar in several years, but below is another 2010 article expressing an interest to move up. At the time, the goal was within 5 years which would have been from 2010 to 2015. During that 5 year period, the WAC football possibility disappeared. The Sun Belt went with East Coast schools with the exception of Texas State and non-football Texas-Arlington from the WAC. While I haven't seen anything recently, I have no doubt that Lamar still has the same aspiration expressed in the linked article if the right opportunity were to appear.

2010 article - Deals could mean bigger things for LU athletics

Lamar has had several athletic directors since Billy Tubbs (quoted in the article linked above). The current athletic director, Marco Born, doesn't sound like someone who is satisfied with the status quo. His expertise is in fund raising and facility upgrades.

2018 artcile - New LU atheltics director

Already in good shape, Lamar has continued upgrades to its athletics facilities including renovated dressing rooms at the Montagne Center, the 10,080 seat on-campus basketball arena. The arena also has new center court video boards, a new sound system, ribbon video boards, and other enhancements. The floor and basketball goals were replaced or refurbished in recent years. The baseball stadium has a new Hellas Matrix turf, new dugouts, new drainage system, and other improvements. Around $5 million remains in money originally budgeted for baseball stadium renovations so there should be more on the way.

A lot of the money for any move has already been invested. The football stadium already has a 16,000 seat permanent seating capacity. Capacity is actually around 18,000-20,000 if Lamar included berm seating in the official seating capacity as other schools do. The stadium was completely renovated in 2009-10 including modifications for full ADA compliance, new concessions, new restroooms, new scoreboard, a new 54,000 sq ft athletics complex, a renovated and enlarged press box, as well as new VIP seating. The football stadium renovation included support work setting the stadium up for future expansion up to a 28,000 seat capacity so future costs should be much less than expansions at other schools.
04-22-2020 08:47 PM
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chrisattsu Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 08:23 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  This guy ^ knows things
David is always there. If you say realignment three times, he pops up like Beetlejuice
04-22-2020 09:11 PM
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RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 08:47 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 05:38 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.

Please post a recent article stating that Lamar “wants FBS”. While you’re at it, please post articles for Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, and Incarnate Word “wanting FBS” as well. UIW had less than 3,000 fans at their last home game and plays in a 6,000 seat stadium, but yeah they want FBS football. Okay Dave

I haven't seen any FBS articles about Lamar in several years, but below is another 2010 article expressing an interest to move up. At the time, the goal was within 5 years which would have been from 2010 to 2015. During that 5 year period, the WAC football possibility disappeared. The Sun Belt went with East Coast schools with the exception of Texas State and non-football Texas-Arlington from the WAC. While I haven't seen anything recently, I have no doubt that Lamar still has the same aspiration expressed in the linked article if the right opportunity were to appear.

2010 article - Deals could mean bigger things for LU athletics

Lamar has had several athletic directors since Billy Tubbs (quoted in the article linked above). The current athletic director, Marco Born, doesn't sound like someone who is satisfied with the status quo. His expertise is in fund raising and facility upgrades.

2018 artcile - New LU atheltics director

Already in good shape, Lamar has continued upgrades to its athletics facilities including renovated dressing rooms at the Montagne Center, the 10,080 seat on-campus basketball arena. The arena also has new center court video boards, a new sound system, ribbon video boards, and other enhancements. The floor and basketball goals were replaced or refurbished in recent years. The baseball stadium has a new Hellas Matrix turf, new dugouts, new drainage system, and other improvements. Around $5 million remains in money originally budgeted for baseball stadium renovations so there should be more on the way.

A lot of the money for any move has already been invested. The football stadium already has a 16,000 seat permanent seating capacity. Capacity is actually around 18,000-20,000 if Lamar included berm seating in the official seating capacity as other schools do. The stadium was completely renovated in 2009-10 including modifications for full ADA compliance, new concessions, new restroooms, new scoreboard, a new 54,000 sq ft athletics complex, a renovated and enlarged press box, as well as new VIP seating. The football stadium renovation included support work setting the stadium up for future expansion up to a 28,000 seat capacity so future costs should be much less than expansions at other schools.

Yes. So a 10 year old article is proof in Dave’s mind that Lamar’s destination is FBS. Nothing has happened in 10 years, but that is of no detail to him. Any school, any division can jump to FBS in Dave’s eyes. He doesn’t know anything. Him and NoDak live in some weird fantasy world. Pay them no attention.
04-22-2020 09:27 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-22-2020 06:06 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 05:38 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(04-22-2020 02:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools


Lamar wants FBS for some years now. If the WAC invited them with the other Texas schools in 2010-2113 time period? Lamar might be in SBC or independent right now, and Tarleton State may have gotten their spot in the Southland.

The talk is that Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFAU and Incarnate Word wants FBS, and could join New Mexico State in the WAC to restart WAC FBS. UTRGV wants to restart football to go FBS. West Texas A&M (former FBS independent) do have access to an FBS size stadium could be one to look at. Midwestern State does have a stadium close to 15,000 could be a future member. As 20 members in Lone Star Conference with UTD looking to move up from D3 to D2, I could see more Texas schools making a jump to D1. Any conferences with more than 16 gets a little too much, and egos get in the way.

Please post a recent article stating that Lamar “wants FBS”. While you’re at it, please post articles for Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin, and Incarnate Word “wanting FBS” as well. UIW had less than 3,000 fans at their last home game and plays in a 6,000 seat stadium, but yeah they want FBS football. Okay Dave


I totally agree with you. Incarnate Word will never... I repeat NEVER get an FBS invite. UTSA took that money market.

COVID-19 halted all talks for now. I really don't see the current football playing schools, nor the possible SLC defectors going FBS as well. If the WAC gets football again, It will be FCS only. Maybe...years and years down the road... get to FBS.

So back to the initial conundrum: is the WAC willing to forfeit its FBS ticket just to spearhead a new FCS league. Or, would it be more logical to court a select group of D2 move-ups and SLC defectors that are capable of meeting FBS standards to revive a WAC FBS league. The latter gives NMSU Football a home, and those select TX SLC teams a legit reason to bolt for the WAC. For the likes of SFA, Sam and Lamar to move up from FCS to a FBS conference makes a ton more sense than a lateral FCS to FCS move, especially leaving a conference as geographically-friendly as the SLC. The 15k capacity requirement narrows down all potential candidates significantly. Yes, we know the near term plan for Tarleton is to play as an FCS independent and get Memorial Stadium up to snuff. During that time I believe the WAC commish will bring more LSC schools into the fold as WAC/FCS independents and bring the SLC defectors over to a newly formed FBS WAC when the dust has settled. There is a reason Chancellor Sharp was so bullish on Tarleton joining the WAC way back when everybody else (Lonn included) wanted the SLC. That reason/vision may very well be "parking" all the larger and capable A&M LSC schools into an eventual FBS WAC 2.0
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2020 11:27 AM by Itinerant Texan.)
04-22-2020 10:13 PM
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