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Itinerant Texan Offline
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WAC Football
So I've learned in my short time here that Basketball is the topic of choice. And that's ok with me, as I'm an equal-opportunity supporter, but it's no secret I do love me some football. I know Tarleton was looking at the SLC for a long time as move-up conference, and for whatever reason it didn't pan out...but we'lll save that for another discussion..

I also know that one of the deciding factors for Tarleton moving into the WAC was the promise of a future WAC football conference. I was really excited to hear that, as I live out West and would love to see Tarleton playing teams out here other than the same ol-same ol D2 or SLC teams. It's great for recruiting, great for exposure, and in my opinion, great for long-term stability...IF the WAC can pull it all together.

So my questions are:
How does this league eventually come together? I could see WTAMU and Angelo coming over as move-up options from Texas, but what about teams out west?
I was under the assumption it would be an FCS league, but learned here that WAC still holds their FBS card and are reluctant to let ot go.. So which will it be?
Right now there are only 3 football-playing schools; 2 FCS and 1 FBS. Is it possible that NMSU will drop down to FCS and start winning some games? But then what you do about that WAC FBS card?

Forgive me if this has all been discussed before, but I need some answers!
04-21-2020 05:12 PM
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gleadley Offline
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RE: WAC Football
No worries, as you are new. You'll find no shortage of realignment conspiracy theorists ready to pounce on this thread to rehash their old takes on how football comes about for the WAC. The only thing I can offer with certainty is that GCU has never had a football program, nor will one ever be started under the current University leadership. The costs have been counted and the President of GCU is on record multiple times saying it just isn't worth blowing up the entire current athletic department so we can say we have football.
04-21-2020 05:24 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: WAC Football
Of the current members, only UTRGV has looked into starting an FCS football program; probably with the intent to joining the SLC. I'm not sure what became of their football study? As for NMSU, I think they have every intent of staying at the FBS level. Only time will tell if the NMSU Administration will need to make some hard decisions about Aggie football's future. NMSU has been holding out hopes that there will be realignments once conferences start the next round of TV contract negotiations. As for the recreation of WAC football, it might be put on hold if the G5 commissioners gets their request approved to put a moratorium on D2 schools moving up to D1; at least for the time being as schools deal with mounting costs due to COVID19.
04-21-2020 05:43 PM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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RE: WAC Football
The proposition proposed to Tarleton before signing off on the WAC deal was the SLC will implode, and the Texas schools from the SLC will join the WAC. With adding a few more schools, could start a 8-10 team football conference.

I know people have called me crazy before, and surely with the COVID-19 pandemic, this theory may only be that... but I believe the people who give me my Info, because they haven’t been wrong yet.
04-21-2020 05:46 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 05:46 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  The proposition proposed to Tarleton before signing off on the WAC deal was the SLC will implode, and the Texas schools from the SLC will join the WAC. With adding a few more schools, could start a 8-10 team football conference.

I know people have called me crazy before, and surely with the COVID-19 pandemic, this theory may only be that... but I believe the people who give me my Info, because they haven’t been wrong yet.

The WAC still holds a placeholder back into FBS (or FCS) football. If there is a reorganization of conferences to form more region alignments, its possible football could return to the WAC in some form.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2020 06:23 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
04-21-2020 05:58 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: WAC Football
Never say never but NMSU will never go FCS. Football facilities are not bad at all and the last couple of years millions of dollars have been pumped into the football program. NMSU football has been discussed to death on its own board but I welcome Tarletons inquiry on the matter. Im hoping, with no inside info that these schools that come over from the LCS decide to move up to FBS and restart FBS football with NMSU in the WAC. Same goes for Dixie State. Hard to talk about football here because the WAC does not have football but we might see it more since the two schools joining both have football so their will be more speculation I'm sure what university presidents and Hurd have going on behind the scenes.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2020 06:28 PM by dancingNMSUaggie.)
04-21-2020 06:26 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 05:46 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  The proposition proposed to Tarleton before signing off on the WAC deal was the SLC will implode, and the Texas schools from the SLC will join the WAC. With adding a few more schools, could start a 8-10 team football conference.

I know people have called me crazy before, and surely with the COVID-19 pandemic, this theory may only be that... but I believe the people who give me my Info, because they haven’t been wrong yet.

I find that very interesting...nay, intriguing. ACU makes total sense; Almost too much sense. But SFA? Sam? Lamar? That is a HAUL for them to travel out west. Beaumont to St. George is basically covering half the country. That's fine for basketball, golf, tennis, etc., but for football its completely impractical. Things must be worse than I thought with the SLC. I get that the Louisiana schools are dragging it down, but it seems like it'd be easy enough to cut them loose and get some better conference mates. Tarleton fit the bill, and then some, and they almost begged the SLC to let them in. I've heard Tarleton now wants no part of it. So I think your sources are on to something. And so the plot thickens..07-coffee3
04-21-2020 09:03 PM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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RE: WAC Football
Sam, SFA, ACU, and WT were the main ones brought up
04-21-2020 09:12 PM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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RE: WAC Football
Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools
04-21-2020 09:13 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 05:24 PM)gleadley Wrote:  No worries, as you are new. You'll find no shortage of realignment conspiracy theorists ready to pounce on this thread to rehash their old takes on how football comes about for the WAC. The only thing I can offer with certainty is that GCU has never had a football program, nor will one ever be started under the current University leadership. The costs have been counted and the President of GCU is on record multiple times saying it just isn't worth blowing up the entire current athletic department so we can say we have football.

And you know, that's such a shame. The Valley would just eat it up. Other than juco, currently no college football bring played in phx proper. Lowly Arizona Christian has a football team, for Pete's sake. They were playing home games at shadow mountain hs while they got it together before bolting for Glendale. I will say that GCU soccer field is unbelievable. i can only imagine what they would come up with for a football stadium. No doubt they have the money, but as long as it's been dubbed "too expensive" by the powers that be, it's a dead end road.
04-21-2020 09:18 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 05:43 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Of the current members, only UTRGV has looked into starting an FCS football program; probably with the intent to joining the SLC. I'm not sure what became of their football study? As for NMSU, I think they have every intent of staying at the FBS level. Only time will tell if the NMSU Administration will need to make some hard decisions about Aggie football's future. NMSU has been holding out hopes that there will be realignments once conferences start the next round of TV contract negotiations. As for the recreation of WAC football, it might be put on hold if the G5 commissioners gets their request approved to put a moratorium on D2 schools moving up to D1; at least for the time being as schools deal with mounting costs due to COVID19.

If the UT BOR actually gets behind that, it will get done in no time. They definitely have the money and the knowhow. I'm not sure why they would be so supportive of UTPB football and not UTRGV. But, if they did move forward with football, I think it would be in the WAC. UTRGV would not a good fit for the SLC. Now if Kingsville and Corpus merge, i could see them going either way. But I have a strong feeling A&M would want them in the same conference as UTRGV,
I agree it would be a gut punch for NMSU to drop to FCS. And besides, you guys just had pretty decent year. If y'all up and left the WAC altogether, where do you think it would be?
04-21-2020 09:43 PM
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Itinerant Texan Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 06:26 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Never say never but NMSU will never go FCS. Football facilities are not bad at all and the last couple of years millions of dollars have been pumped into the football program. NMSU football has been discussed to death on its own board but I welcome Tarletons inquiry on the matter. Im hoping, with no inside info that these schools that come over from the LCS decide to move up to FBS and restart FBS football with NMSU in the WAC. Same goes for Dixie State. Hard to talk about football here because the WAC does not have football but we might see it more since the two schools joining both have football so their will be more speculation I'm sure what university presidents and Hurd have going on behind the scenes.

I'm curious, has there ever been a jump from D2 directly to FBS? That does seem like the easiest fix to keep NMSU football in the WAC, but that's a huge step forward for a Tarleton or Dixie. Whats the stadoum capacity minimum for FBS? Why isn't NMSU in the MWC?
04-21-2020 09:56 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 09:56 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 06:26 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Never say never but NMSU will never go FCS. Football facilities are not bad at all and the last couple of years millions of dollars have been pumped into the football program. NMSU football has been discussed to death on its own board but I welcome Tarletons inquiry on the matter. Im hoping, with no inside info that these schools that come over from the LCS decide to move up to FBS and restart FBS football with NMSU in the WAC. Same goes for Dixie State. Hard to talk about football here because the WAC does not have football but we might see it more since the two schools joining both have football so their will be more speculation I'm sure what university presidents and Hurd have going on behind the scenes.

I'm curious, has there ever been a jump from D2 directly to FBS? That does seem like the easiest fix to keep NMSU football in the WAC, but that's a huge step forward for a Tarleton or Dixie. Whats the stadoum capacity minimum for FBS? Why isn't NMSU in the MWC?

Besides the fact that NMSU has struggled in football for years, the MWC values, large media markets and major recruiting hotbeds; and NMSU offers neither. UNM is deemed the one and only representative for the State of New Mexico; as if UNM carries much clout south of T or C (Hot Springs), New Mexico. The other problem is NMSU falls behind UTEP in the line of schools wanting into the MWC. UTEP is 45 minutes south of NMSU. Resides in El Paso; a city nearly 7 times larger than Las Cruces. And, services the regions with its international Airport and largest news media market. Also, UTEP is in Texas which would give the MWC a foothold in that State. However, is not that high on the list either. There are other Texas schools (UTSA, North Texas) which the MWC would rather have in the conference than UTEP. So, you can see how far down NMSU is in the pecking order to join the MWC.
04-21-2020 10:55 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: WAC Football
To maintain FBS status, a school must average 15,000 in paid or actual attendance a game at least once every two seasons. The NCAA used to require Division I-A schools to have a stadium with a minimum capacity of 30,000, but that rule was scrapped in 2004. When NMSU opened the present stadium in 1978 (Aggie Memorial football Stadium) it was made with a capacity to fit 30343 for that reason. In 2015 a sky box was built on the east side of the stadium called Club 27 that fits 92 people opposite of the press box side so now the new capacity since that box reduced some seating stadium capacity now is 28853. Club 27 sky box is really nice. On the south end zone there is the Fulton Center that is 3 or 4 floors. On the top floor are sky boxes and a restaurant where you can see the games. It's pretty nice although it being in the end zone instead of the press box area is dumb. The press box is awful and needs to be remodeled big time. Football has one of the best weight rooms and equipment in mid major FBS football. The football offices are nice too. A few years ago they put in artificial surface which was like 1 million dollars, a new locker room renovation last year funded by a rich donor, new landscaping around stadium and general spiffing up here and there. Cons are bathrooms are small and old and gross so for games they put porta potties everywhere. The concourse is small and crowded. It doesn't run under the stands. Its a dumb design. Only a small section have chair backs so most of stadium has uncomfortable metal bleachers. Football stadium needs a new video board. The one thats there is old small and doesn't work half the time. Game day experience is pretty awesome. Great weather. Con is the football team generally sucks and my opinion, one of the worst football coaches in FBS football. Why we are not in the MWC is another thing. A book with 30 chapters could be written and I'm not gonna write a novel. Lets just say past NMSU adminstrations are to blame, a crooked state government that always favors UNM, a rival that blocks our entry into any conference they are in, a small TV market and lack of money. There are 100 more reasons but thats a start. Here are some of the football facilities:

https://nmstatesports.com/facilities/?id=5 https://nmstatesports.com/facilities/?id=1 https://nmstatesports.com/facilities/?id=8 https://nmstatesports.com/facilities/?id=21 https://nmstatesports.com/facilities/?id=28
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2020 09:19 AM by dancingNMSUaggie.)
04-21-2020 11:12 PM
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NeptunianEmp Offline
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RE: WAC Football
There has been talk about UVU adding football, although I think it is just speculation as of right now.
04-22-2020 12:21 AM
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NuMexAg Offline
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RE: WAC Football
Welcome to Tarleton fans!

Regarding football though - I think COVID 19 is going to change A LOT of college athletics discussions over the course of the next 1-2 years, including the future of the WAC ( and maybe not all bad for the WAC). I think any WAC football discussion is going to be on hold for a while.
With all the major economic strife about to hit schools I can’t imagine the WAC would entertain starting an expensive endeavor like football.
Survival will be the name of the game for a few years.

What is up with the SLC? I didn’t realize they were having major problems (?).
04-22-2020 12:26 AM
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gleadley Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 09:18 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  
(04-21-2020 05:24 PM)gleadley Wrote:  No worries, as you are new. You'll find no shortage of realignment conspiracy theorists ready to pounce on this thread to rehash their old takes on how football comes about for the WAC. The only thing I can offer with certainty is that GCU has never had a football program, nor will one ever be started under the current University leadership. The costs have been counted and the President of GCU is on record multiple times saying it just isn't worth blowing up the entire current athletic department so we can say we have football.

And you know, that's such a shame. The Valley would just eat it up. Other than juco, currently no college football bring played in phx proper. Lowly Arizona Christian has a football team, for Pete's sake. They were playing home games at shadow mountain hs while they got it together before bolting for Glendale. I will say that GCU soccer field is unbelievable. i can only imagine what they would come up with for a football stadium. No doubt they have the money, but as long as it's been dubbed "too expensive" by the powers that be, it's a dead end road.

The irony is that the GCU soccer stadium is only so beautiful because the decision was made to invest in soccer instead of pursuing football. There is a reason GCU has the only D1 soccer program in the state & it is precisely why the Lopes will never haver football under the current University leadership. Specifically, they aren't willing to blow up the current athletic department structure by eliminating programs to balance men's and women's scholarship counts. Add to the conversation concerns about the long-term viability of the sport in light of head injury/CTE concerns and you start to get an idea about why GCU has elected to double-down on the world's game of futbol instead of opting for the American version of the namesake.
04-22-2020 04:42 AM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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RE: WAC Football
come to Tarleton fans!

Regarding football though - I think COVID 19 is going to change A LOT of college athletics discussions over the course of the next 1-2 years, including the future of the WAC ( and maybe not all bad for the WAC). I think any WAC football discussion is going to be on hold for a while.
With all the major economic strife about to hit schools I can’t imagine the WAC would entertain starting an expensive endeavor like football.
Survival will be the name of the game for a few years.

What is up with the SLC? I didn’t realize they were having major problems (?).



Before COVID-19 that was the talk. I think you are right for mid majors for the next few years... survival mode engaged.
04-22-2020 09:21 AM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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RE: WAC Football
(04-21-2020 09:13 PM)wisdomgymrat Wrote:  Lamar would go with HBU and Louisiana schools

I'm not aware of any issues with the Southland Conference. If there are issues, I'm not so sure about Lamar staying with the Louisiana schools if the SLC were to split up especially with a possible path to FBS membership. Lamar showed a strong interest in WAC membership around the time Texas State and UTSA moved to the WAC. Here's a link to one of several articles. 2010 article - Lamar to the WAC? San Jose State was a WAC member at that time; a much longer trip for a football team than to St. George. While I think Lamar has a good association with the Louisiana and Arkansas SLC schools, with the exception of neighboring McNeese, I think Lamar is tied more to Texas schools in several ways. Lamar, Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, and Abilene Christian are former Lone Star Conference members. Lamar and Abilene Christian left the Lone Stsr Conference at the same time as founding members of the Southland Conference. Sam Houston State is in the same university system as Lamar. Lamar has a long history with McNeese, but the Cardinals left McNeese before when Lamar left the SLC to be a founding member of the American South Conference.

Athletic budgets for Lamar, Sam Houston State, and Stephen F. Austin are more closely aligned with each other than with the Louisiana schools based on both the USA Today athletic spending database and the Department of Education's OPE Equity in Athletics database. Lamar and Sam Houston are consistently in the top 2 or 3 in athletics spending and revenue in the SLC.

With a regional airport 7 miles from campus and 2 Houston airports just a little over an hour away to schedule from, Lamar has better air connections than any SLC Texas school not located in Houston or San Antonio including Sam Houston State and especially Stephen F. Austin.
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2020 11:47 AM by LUSportsFan.)
04-22-2020 11:39 AM
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wisdomgymrat Offline
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RE: WAC Football
Lamar was not brought up in the conversation I had with my source. Only SLC teams that were mentioned were Sam, SFA, ACU, and adding WT.
(This post was last modified: 04-22-2020 11:52 AM by wisdomgymrat.)
04-22-2020 11:51 AM
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