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MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
MVC Commissioner Doug Elgin has steadfastly opposed expansion beyond 10 teams. For the first time, Elgin is now changing his mind in an interview released today. FF to 6:25 in the video:



03-08-2020 06:46 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
They must have found a 12th team to pair with Murray State
03-08-2020 06:47 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 06:47 PM)solohawks Wrote:  They must have found a 12th team to pair with Murray State

That’s what I think too. Probably will happen within the next year.
03-08-2020 06:52 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 06:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 06:47 PM)solohawks Wrote:  They must have found a 12th team to pair with Murray State

That’s what I think too. Probably will happen within the next year.

might be next month.
03-08-2020 07:08 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
So who do we think? Belmont would be near the top of my list.
03-08-2020 07:15 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 07:15 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  So who do we think? Belmont would be near the top of my list.

Supposedly Belmont wont move so I would put the odds as the following:
34% - Murray St & Northern Kentucky
33% - Murray St & Wright St
33% - Murray St & UIC

Also, I know he mentions Q1/Q2 games & P6 20-game schedules as the reason, but I wonder if the MVC’s trainwreck tournament that popped UNI’s bubble and saw its 3 T100 teams fall early is what spurred this.
03-08-2020 07:26 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.
03-08-2020 07:32 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 07:32 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.

Saint Louis (and Belmont) aren’t interested in the MVC. Murray State is the opposite - their president and AD put on mega social media campaigns to replace Wichita. Elgin called Murray “an MVC institution” at the time but claimed 11 was non-negotiable.
03-08-2020 07:36 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:32 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.

Saint Louis (and Belmont) aren’t interested in the MVC. Murray State is the opposite - their president and AD put on mega social media campaigns to replace Wichita. Elgin called Murray “an MVC institution” at the time but claimed 11 was non-negotiable.

With 20 game schedules being the new 18 game schedules and the AAC and Big East going to 11 teams, even though Elgin didn't say so maybe 11 is a possibility.

Another problem with Murray State. They've essentially been passed over by the MVC twice in the 2010's, once for Loyola (I'd say a terrific choice) and once for Valparaiso.

I wonder if the A-10 would ever have the guts to kick St. Louis out. St. Louis should want to leave.
03-08-2020 07:48 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 07:48 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:32 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.

Saint Louis (and Belmont) aren’t interested in the MVC. Murray State is the opposite - their president and AD put on mega social media campaigns to replace Wichita. Elgin called Murray “an MVC institution” at the time but claimed 11 was non-negotiable.

With 20 game schedules being the new 18 game schedules and the AAC and Big East going to 11 teams, even though Elgin didn't say so maybe 11 is a possibility.

Another problem with Murray State. They've essentially been passed over by the MVC twice in the 2010's, once for Loyola (I'd say a terrific choice) and once for Valparaiso.

I wonder if the A-10 would ever have the guts to kick St. Louis out. St. Louis should want to leave.

The MVC has a delicate political balance between private and public schools. The private schools do not want to be dominated in the board room by the public schools. Therefore, they have chosen two private schools to replace Wichita State and Creighton.

The MVC also wants to increase their presence in and around Chicago, as their schools have alumni there and recruit students from there. Therefore, Loyola and Valparaiso are the two newest members.

The MVC would love to have St. Louis. They are still based in St. Louis and have their conference tournament there. St. Louis was a member of the Valley from 1937-1974.

However, St. Louis feels that the Valley is beneath them. They have aspirations to be in the Big East. They want exposure in the East, and the best way they can do that for now is in the A-10. Yes, it would make sense for them to be in the Valley. They actually also fit in the Big East as a midwestern Catholic school (like Creighton, Marquette, DePaul, and Xavier). But, the Big East isn't taking them right now, and the A-10 is the next best thing.

The MVC has five private schools (Loyola, Valparaiso, Evansville, Bradley, Drake) and five public schools (Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State). If they're expanding to 12, they'll take both a public school and a private school. If Murray State is the public school, someone else will be the private school. Detroit?
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 08:06 PM by johnintx.)
03-08-2020 08:04 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 07:48 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:32 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.

Saint Louis (and Belmont) aren’t interested in the MVC. Murray State is the opposite - their president and AD put on mega social media campaigns to replace Wichita. Elgin called Murray “an MVC institution” at the time but claimed 11 was non-negotiable.

With 20 game schedules being the new 18 game schedules and the AAC and Big East going to 11 teams, even though Elgin didn't say so maybe 11 is a possibility.

Another problem with Murray State. They've essentially been passed over by the MVC twice in the 2010's, once for Loyola (I'd say a terrific choice) and once for Valparaiso.

I wonder if the A-10 would ever have the guts to kick St. Louis out. St. Louis should want to leave.

Why on Earth would the A-10 want to kick out SLU, which is one of their better programs in a major media market? On the flip side, anyone who thinks that SLU would want to leave the A-10 for anyone other than the Big East isn’t thinking like a university president. SLU has been very clear that they *want* to be associated with the Eastern schools. The Midwestern geography of the MVC is actually a huge *negative* for SLU (which a lot of fans seem to constantly not realize).
03-08-2020 08:25 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Murray makes 11 in football, 6 MVC, 4 Summit, 1 Horizon.
03-08-2020 08:25 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 08:04 PM)johnintx Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:48 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:32 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.

Saint Louis (and Belmont) aren’t interested in the MVC. Murray State is the opposite - their president and AD put on mega social media campaigns to replace Wichita. Elgin called Murray “an MVC institution” at the time but claimed 11 was non-negotiable.

With 20 game schedules being the new 18 game schedules and the AAC and Big East going to 11 teams, even though Elgin didn't say so maybe 11 is a possibility.

Another problem with Murray State. They've essentially been passed over by the MVC twice in the 2010's, once for Loyola (I'd say a terrific choice) and once for Valparaiso.

I wonder if the A-10 would ever have the guts to kick St. Louis out. St. Louis should want to leave.

The MVC has a delicate political balance between private and public schools. The private schools do not want to be dominated in the board room by the public schools. Therefore, they have chosen two private schools to replace Wichita State and Creighton.

The MVC also wants to increase their presence in and around Chicago, as their schools have alumni there and recruit students from there. Therefore, Loyola and Valparaiso are the two newest members.

The MVC would love to have St. Louis. They are still based in St. Louis and have their conference tournament there. St. Louis was a member of the Valley from 1937-1974.

However, St. Louis feels that the Valley is beneath them. They have aspirations to be in the Big East. They want exposure in the East, and the best way they can do that for now is in the A-10. Yes, it would make sense for them to be in the Valley. They actually also fit in the Big East as a midwestern Catholic school (like Creighton, Marquette, DePaul, and Xavier). But, the Big East isn't taking them right now, and the A-10 is the next best thing.

The MVC has five private schools (Loyola, Valparaiso, Evansville, Bradley, Drake) and five public schools (Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, Indiana State). If they're expanding to 12, they'll take both a public school and a private school. If Murray State is the public school, someone else will be the private school. Detroit?

I think the Chicago area is definitely critical for the MVC. If you look at the student enrollments at virtually all of the MVC schools, they’d essentially be DOA without Chicago area students.

That’s why you can’t discount UIC (despite being underachieving in basketball). Murray State has long seemed like a classic fan choice for expansion as opposed to a university president choice - fans love the on-the-court basketball prowess, but the university presidents are looking for different institutional fits and markets. My guess is that Belmont (directly located Nashville) would be more likely to get into the MVC than Murray State based on their actions for the past decade. That would also keep the public/private balance of the league.
03-08-2020 08:32 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 08:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think the Chicago area is definitely critical for the MVC. If you look at the student enrollments at virtually all of the MVC schools, they’d essentially be DOA without Chicago area students.

That’s why you can’t discount UIC (despite being underachieving in basketball). Murray State has long seemed like a classic fan choice for expansion as opposed to a university president choice - fans love the on-the-court basketball prowess, but the university presidents are looking for different institutional fits and markets. My guess is that Belmont (directly located Nashville) would be more likely to get into the MVC than Murray State based on their actions for the past decade. That would also keep the public/private balance of the league.

Hasn't Belmont already turned down the MVC? They could always reconsider, and that could be going on behind the scenes for all we know. They would be an excellent add if they are willing to travel farther. Their travel expenses would go up, but it would be an upgrade in conferences.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 08:44 PM by johnintx.)
03-08-2020 08:43 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 08:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think the Chicago area is definitely critical for the MVC. If you look at the student enrollments at virtually all of the MVC schools, they’d essentially be DOA without Chicago area students.

But the MVC already has the Chicago area in Loyola unless they want to double dip.


(03-08-2020 08:43 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Hasn't Belmont already turned down the MVC? They could always reconsider, and that could be going on behind the scenes for all we know. They would be an excellent add if they are willing to travel farther. Their travel expenses would go up, but it would be an upgrade in conferences.

If Murray State does get accepted to the MVC and the MVC doesn't want UIC but wants Belmont, the OVC would be a lot worse by losing Murray State. That could help change Belmont's mind about leaving the OVC for the MVC.
03-08-2020 09:01 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:32 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.

Saint Louis (and Belmont) aren’t interested in the MVC. Murray State is the opposite - their president and AD put on mega social media campaigns to replace Wichita. Elgin called Murray “an MVC institution” at the time but claimed 11 was non-negotiable.

Saint Louis would consider the MAC over the MVC. In fact they made an inquiry to the MAC back in 2005 when they left CUSA. Saint Louis may desire the Big East but the AAC is more realistic as a target.

From the MAC perspective I'm worried the MVC will take UIC or Milwaukee which might be good basketball candidates for the MAC someday.

The MVC I think mostly wants Murray St because of their proximity to arch madness. I don't think they disrupt the apple cart in Midwest mid-major balance of power as much as poaching Horizon teams would.
03-08-2020 09:05 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 09:01 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 08:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think the Chicago area is definitely critical for the MVC. If you look at the student enrollments at virtually all of the MVC schools, they’d essentially be DOA without Chicago area students.

But the MVC already has the Chicago area in Loyola unless they want to double dip.

The Horizon had both UIC and Loyola so I don't think Loyola will try to block a quality public school. How does Illinois St feel about a 4th Illinois school in conference?

MVC is probably done with anything west of Iowa/Missouri. What about keeping he public private balance even? Could that make room for Detroit? If the MVC takes in 2 more public schools it will be 7 publics/5 privates. Perhaps Belmont has changed their opinion on the MVC.
03-08-2020 09:12 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Hmmm...conventional wisdom says they need one public football school and one private school without.

Murray St and Belmont are the pair they want. Belmont is happy where they’re are.

Here’s an idea. Make it public you’re considering Lipscomb—that’ll make Belmont change their mind really fast
03-08-2020 09:16 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Detroit’s in probation trouble, averages 1500 attendance, and only a <5 hour drive to 2 MVC schools. They’re DOA imo.

I think the MVC is counting non-FB publics (NKU, WSU, UIC) as privates and one of those 3 will take the “private” slot.
03-08-2020 09:39 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
whats the latest with St Thomas? Did they get the final approval for the move? Would MVC be interested in Minneapolis?
03-08-2020 09:46 PM
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