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MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
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BePcr07 Online
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Post: #41
RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 08:22 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  As a Belmont homer, I will note a few things ...

BU offers graduate schools of business, music and law. It offers bachelor's degrees in fashion, film, nursing and architecture. The enrollment is now pushing 9,000 and the selectivity for students has dropped to about 80 percent (it was well over 90 percent not that long ago). The campus is located about two miles southwest of downtown Nashville in a vibrant and urban setting very near Vanderbilt U., Midtown, 12South and Hillsboro Village. To an extent, Belmont has a "big-league/big-city" vibe to it.

I attended Middle Tennessee State (a former OVC member) and follow the OVC still, somewhat, due to BU. In short, Belmont simply does not "feel" like an OVC school/athletics department. Membership in the Missouri Valley would be huge for Belmont, and I would think the MVC would like a Nashville presence and BU's respectable all-around athletics program.

This will be interesting to follow.

My thoughts are similar - not to the degree of personal knowledge or detail - but I think they're a great fit. They stick out like a sore thumb in the OVC. The SoCon would be a better fit than the OVC. The OVC is a good, tight geographical footprint sort of centered around Belmont which is probably to their liking.
03-09-2020 09:33 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #42
RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 09:10 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Belmont is a perfect candidate for the SoCon. They're already associated in Men's Soccer (means nothing I know) with the SoCon. Belmont would make 11 in the SoCon and a good 20 game schedule in basketball and doesn't disrupt the 9 member (8 conference game) football part of the conference.

Yup, already an associate member. I heard they turned down both Horizon and MVC in the past, and then this associate membership happened not terribly long after. You don't want to put two and two together, but, I think full membership is in their near future and something they want.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they have an even higher ceiling than SoCon (and, no, that isn't CAA).

Quote:I doubt they take UIC.

I suspect Loyola and Valpo are good for the perma-block from here on out. And, maybe you don't see much support from the public members, either? Has UIC really been tearing it up in Horizon? If there was upward mobility in play, I would think you would see UIC pouring a mint into hoops so it could move elsewhere. And not just MVC, but other destinations. It's not happening, or not the same way other institutions inject into hoops.

The one I watch in all of this, if things begin to move between the OVC, Horizon, SoCon, and MVC is Northern Kentucky. Like, you're right outside of Cincinnati, and you play in a gem of an arena, and they wasted no time in finding their way to the top of the Horizon. Is there somewhere else they can be in a few years?
03-09-2020 09:51 AM
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Post: #43
RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-08-2020 10:56 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 09:55 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:48 PM)schmolik Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:36 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:32 PM)schmolik Wrote:  Why not St. Louis? They can have a member in St. Louis. They'd do the A-10 a favor and save them a ton of travel.

Saint Louis (and Belmont) aren’t interested in the MVC. Murray State is the opposite - their president and AD put on mega social media campaigns to replace Wichita. Elgin called Murray “an MVC institution” at the time but claimed 11 was non-negotiable.

With 20 game schedules being the new 18 game schedules and the AAC and Big East going to 11 teams, even though Elgin didn't say so maybe 11 is a possibility.

Another problem with Murray State. They've essentially been passed over by the MVC twice in the 2010's, once for Loyola (I'd say a terrific choice) and once for Valparaiso.

I wonder if the A-10 would ever have the guts to kick St. Louis out. St. Louis should want to leave.

Loyola was a lucky choice, with one good team in 30 years and two in 50 years. Regardless of the Final Four, it should.have been UIC.

Loyola got good because they started investing a ton of money into basketball. MVC was leaning towards UIC, then Loyola pledged a bunch of commitments and their membership was contingent upon it. They renovated the arena, built a state of the art practice facility, and ballooned their budget. The Loyola of today isn’t the Loyola of those decades.

If you come to Chicago, go to a Loyola game and a UIC game and you will see a stark difference. It used to be the opposite 10+ years ago.

Partially, however Loyola's not even that good. They had one semi-fluky run and nothing else so far in the Valley. Their coach is gonna regret not leaving two years ago when he was a hot name in coaching.
03-09-2020 10:00 AM
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
If your are talking private schools, Denver would be a good fit, but for distance. For some reason, their hoops team has never achieved success, unlike the hockey or lacrosse teams. Nice campus. Great market. Oral Roberts would fit geographically. Tulsa was a longtime Valley member. However, that school has had issues over the years. SLU is a geographically a better fit in the Valley, but there are more peer institutions in the A10. Plus, the A10 gives the school more access to the east coast markets, which enhances student recruitment.
03-09-2020 10:44 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #45
RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Belmont has traditionally been a music school for Nashville's scene. The SoCon fits better for that scene over the OVC and the MVC, speaking of enrollment. The OVC is mostly lo public tuition, while the SoCon is mostly high private tuition, while the MVC is between them.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 11:33 AM by NoDak.)
03-09-2020 10:56 AM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Belmont going to the SoCon makes a lot of sense

That OVC travel setup is pretty nice though

If you're going to be 1 bid then spend as little on travel as possible.

However culturally, the SoCon is a tremendous fit
03-09-2020 01:18 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 01:18 PM)solohawks Wrote:  However culturally, the SoCon is a tremendous fit

If the talk is real that SoCon is really upping its basketball game, is it possible a quality addition like Belmont potentially makes SoCon a more likely place to see multiple bids?
03-09-2020 01:23 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
There are a lot of chatter out of the SoCon that they want to upped their basketball some, and Belmont's name is on top. Bellarmine's name came up, but they would be an outlier. Murray State is also on that list. MVC should pull the trigger to get Bellarmine and Murray State. MVC used to be in New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and Ohio.

Just like Belmont, Bellarmine is eyeing for a SoCon invite in the future since they are an associate in men's LAX.

University of Indianapolis on the other hand would get MVC back into that large populated city.
03-09-2020 01:50 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
How many times does BELMONT have to say NO to the MVC? Unless some new huge incentive comes along it will not happen. They are happy in the OVC for several reasons.
03-09-2020 02:23 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 01:23 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 01:18 PM)solohawks Wrote:  However culturally, the SoCon is a tremendous fit

If the talk is real that SoCon is really upping its basketball game, is it possible a quality addition like Belmont potentially makes SoCon a more likely place to see multiple bids?


The SoCon just missed out on multiple bids last year. I think UNCG was first one of the first out. Got an NIT #1 seed even without winning the regular season.

SoCon is riiiiiiiiight there to be a multiple bid league. An addition like Belmont would push it even closer. And a year like last year I could see 2-3 teams being on the bubble.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 02:29 PM by Yosef Himself.)
03-09-2020 02:29 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Does the Southern regret bringing back VMI? Swap out VMI for Belmont, and the SoCon is the closest thing the South has to an A10/MVC/WCC.
03-09-2020 02:31 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 02:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Does the Southern regret bringing back VMI? Swap out VMI for Belmont, and the SoCon is the closest thing the South has to an A10/MVC/WCC.


They needed them for football and I think ETSU and The Citadel both like having VMI in conference. I'm not even sure there were other options. Around 2010 there was a light buzz about Tennessee Tech, but they would have been just as bad as VMI and without the history.
03-09-2020 03:00 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Online
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 02:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Does the Southern regret bringing back VMI? Swap out VMI for Belmont, and the SoCon is the closest thing the South has to an A10/MVC/WCC.

They should. VMI was a SoCon member for about 79 years (1924-2003) and was invited back for fall 2014. The membership seemed to prioritize sentiment over success by inviting them back. VMI has been deadweight in football and basketball for decades. They were no replacement in either sport for any of the five schools that left in 2913 and 2014 (Charleston, Davidson, App State, Georgia Southern, and Elon).

And yes, Belmont would have bolstered basketball while a Kennesaw State or a Coastal Carolina (available back then) would have helped mitigate the membership losses in football.
03-09-2020 03:18 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 03:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 02:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Does the Southern regret bringing back VMI? Swap out VMI for Belmont, and the SoCon is the closest thing the South has to an A10/MVC/WCC.

They should. VMI was a SoCon member for about 79 years (1924-2003) and was invited back for fall 2014. The membership seemed to prioritize sentiment over success by inviting them back. VMI has been deadweight in football and basketball for decades. They were no replacement in either sport for any of the five schools that left in 2913 and 2014 (Charleston, Davidson, App State, Georgia Southern, and Elon).

And yes, Belmont would have bolstered basketball while a Kennesaw State or a Coastal Carolina (available back then) would have helped mitigate the membership losses in football.

VMI fits a lot better than a Kennesaw St.
03-09-2020 03:20 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 03:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 02:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Does the Southern regret bringing back VMI? Swap out VMI for Belmont, and the SoCon is the closest thing the South has to an A10/MVC/WCC.

They should. VMI was a SoCon member for about 79 years (1924-2003) and was invited back for fall 2014. The membership seemed to prioritize sentiment over success by inviting them back. VMI has been deadweight in football and basketball for decades. They were no replacement in either sport for any of the five schools that left in 2913 and 2014 (Charleston, Davidson, App State, Georgia Southern, and Elon).

And yes, Belmont would have bolstered basketball while a Kennesaw State or a Coastal Carolina (available back then) would have helped mitigate the membership losses in football.

VMI fits a lot better than a Kennesaw St.


Only way KSU gets into the SoCon is if they lose UTC or WCU. However, I don't see either wanting to leave the SoCon.
03-09-2020 03:50 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #56
RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 03:50 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 03:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(03-09-2020 02:31 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Does the Southern regret bringing back VMI? Swap out VMI for Belmont, and the SoCon is the closest thing the South has to an A10/MVC/WCC.

They should. VMI was a SoCon member for about 79 years (1924-2003) and was invited back for fall 2014. The membership seemed to prioritize sentiment over success by inviting them back. VMI has been deadweight in football and basketball for decades. They were no replacement in either sport for any of the five schools that left in 2913 and 2014 (Charleston, Davidson, App State, Georgia Southern, and Elon).

And yes, Belmont would have bolstered basketball while a Kennesaw State or a Coastal Carolina (available back then) would have helped mitigate the membership losses in football.

VMI fits a lot better than a Kennesaw St.


Only way KSU gets into the SoCon is if they lose UTC or WCU. However, I don't see either wanting to leave the SoCon.
Losing KSU means the ASun can't split, so it would probably die.
03-09-2020 04:28 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 02:23 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  How many times does BELMONT have to say NO to the MVC? Unless some new huge incentive comes along it will not happen. They are happy in the OVC for several reasons.


Belmont has been very happy in the OVC (from what I understand talking to a key BU athletics department official over the years). However, if Murray leaves ... that will be a huge blow to OVC men's basketball. The league truly is Murray and Belmont, with Austin Peay having a solid history. That's it. The OVC simply not a very good hoops league. Belmont is happy in the OVC because of manageable travel. But I have to wonder if MVC could make Murray and BU a "package deal," ... BU might jump.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 05:20 PM by bill dazzle.)
03-09-2020 05:20 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Murray St. and Belmont(if they think its worth it now) or NKU. Who would the Horizon go after? Robert Morris, Bellarmine, Morehead St., W.Illinois? Not many options. SoCon would look a lot better to Belmont in an OVC w/o their key rival.
03-09-2020 05:55 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
Silly question - IF The Valley ventures west again, would Denver be an option? Private, good academics, strong in olympic sports (especially volleyball, tennis and men's soccer), located in a major market. Can't hurt to say hello.
03-09-2020 07:42 PM
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RE: MVC Commissioner Uturns Stance — Now Considering Expansion to 12
(03-09-2020 07:42 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Silly question - IF The Valley ventures west again, would Denver be an option? Private, good academics, strong in olympic sports (especially volleyball, tennis and men's soccer), located in a major market. Can't hurt to say hello.

If they start hockey. Omaha, UND, Denver have it and it provides almost their revenues.
03-09-2020 07:45 PM
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