(01-31-2020 09:35 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
your #1 player was a big.. your big play has been fine...wiseman back wouldnt have magically given you great guard play ..yall would still be struggling
this isnt a james left cleveland situation by any definition
The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
(01-30-2020 04:38 PM)Atlanta Wrote: I think he clearly out coaches Marshall at WSU in a close game & then going on to the NIT with essentially the same talent as Tubby who did not make any tournament appearances while at Memphis.
Just curious how so? I actually don't remember the game. I think the entire notion of being "out coached" in a given game is way over done.
I think coaches make the best decisions they can on the information before them and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I think you have to look at more than a game about being "out coached".
Maybe an actual coach can weigh in. Was Custer outcoached at the Little Bighorn? Or did he just have bad information?
Guess you just focused on the @WSU game, but I noted the entire season. But I also disagree with you idea that you can't compare coaches in their individual games. It happens all the time.
Are you saying Penny out coached Marshall over the entirety of last season? Because that's just blatantly not true.
Penny got a ton of help last year from J Martin going hero mode the 2nd half of the year. Dude was unstoppable for a while.
Penny gave JM the freedom. Tubby did not. Some call that coaching.
(01-30-2020 01:41 PM)I_LUV_MEMPHISTIGERS Wrote: State Championships isn't Jack? He hasn't paid his dues on multiple levels to coach at this level? Where do you cockroaches come from?
I'm guessing you have no idea the pact he had with Dez Merriweather, now deceased. Or did even you realize there was an ultimate game plan since he started coaching with Dez in Middle School?
No, I don't know who the *&^% Dez Merriweather is... and to be frank I don't give a sh*t. Uh, did Penny pay $11,500 to move this guy and his family to Memphis too?
I was coming at it more from how a coach can turn the #1 recruiting class in the country into an 80-40 loss to freakin' Tulsa.
I can't either on that one. I want to believe it's the "flu like symptoms" purportedly spread to the rest of the team because Penny didn't quarantine him, but I don't know.
You should give a **** who Desmond Merriweather is before you hurle insults at Penny's college coaching
Those are fighting words if you said them to his face and don't understand what drives him.
OK yeah, now that you remind me I actually do know who that guy is. That's all fine and great.
Stay on task here, dude.
We're talking about Penny as coach at Memphis. And... he aint done much.
I remind you? They made a pact to bring a Championship to Memphis at every level. 2 out of 3 boxes checked.
Middle School State Championship. Check.
High School State Championship. Check.
University of Memphis National Championship. TBD. #1 recruiting class starting the process is a good step, wouldn't you agree?
This a thread on Memphis BB. Please don't lecture me on what you don't understand between the local Memphis basketball community and Penny Hardaway, his love for Memphis, and his relationship with Desmond Merriweather. And your baseless assumptions that he only understands recruiting.
(01-31-2020 09:35 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
your #1 player was a big.. your big play has been fine...wiseman back wouldnt have magically given you great guard play ..yall would still be struggling
this isnt a james left cleveland situation by any definition
The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game (as shown by still going 4-23 from 3 vs oregon)
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 02:17 PM by pesik.)
(01-31-2020 01:14 PM)pesik Wrote: your #1 player was a big.. your big play has been fine...wiseman back wouldnt have magically given you great guard play ..yall would still be struggling
this isnt a james left cleveland situation by any definition
The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
(01-31-2020 01:14 PM)pesik Wrote: your #1 player was a big.. your big play has been fine...wiseman back wouldnt have magically given you great guard play ..yall would still be struggling
this isnt a james left cleveland situation by any definition
The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game (as shown by still going 4-23 from 3 vs oregon)
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
using the Oregon game. started 5 freshmen in their 1st road game during 1st week of season. We were down 5 with 2 minutes. Wiseman played 22 minutes due to a ridiculous 2nd foul call. Still had 14 and 12
(01-31-2020 01:22 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote: The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
it was never built around feeding jw in the post.. you fed him versus teams that were tiny, like sc st..in the oregon game he was 5th in attempts and was 7th in attempts in th UIC game..
there was also 2 full high school and aau years of wiseman under penny..wiseman has never been a high volume scorer ...
again wiseman played the full game vs oregon and you shoot from 3: 4 makes in 23 attempts and 13 turnovers...wiseman did play in that game..we have evidence he wasnt going to magically improve the shooting
and yes Wiseman is an absolute game changer for certain teams...specifically any team that needs a big...
memphis is deeply flawed at the guard positions, you have an insanely high turnover rate and are shooting the ball very poorly ..neither of those 2 are drastically changing with wiseman
you are trying to call me out on my knowledge but use fake information to do so..this memphis team needs jeremiah martin, not wiseman
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 03:01 PM by pesik.)
My previous post for context:
The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
(01-31-2020 02:35 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:
(01-31-2020 02:15 PM)pesik Wrote:
(01-31-2020 02:07 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:
(01-31-2020 01:43 PM)pesik Wrote:
(01-31-2020 01:22 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote: The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
It is obvious losing a player of Wiseman's caliber has a materially detrimental effect on the team's performance. When the obvious is ignored by a poster; either willful ignorance or deliberate antagonizing is the cause. In both cases, ignoring the source is a viable option because he or she is untouched by the power of reason and logic or unbound from the limits of civil discourse.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 03:03 PM by Tiger1983.)
(01-31-2020 01:43 PM)pesik Wrote: your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
it was never built around feeding jw in the post.. you fed him versus teams that were tiny, like sc st..in the oregon game he was 5th in attempts and was 7th in attempts in th UIC game..
there was also 2 full high school and aau years of wiseman under penny..wiseman has never been a high volume scorer ...
again wiseman played the full game vs oregon and you shoot from 3: 4 makes in 23 attempts and 13 turnovers...wiseman did play in that game..we have evidence he wasnt going to magically improve the shooting
and yes Wiseman is an absolute game changer for certain teams...specifically any team that needs a big...
memphis is deeply flawed at the guard positions, you have an insanely high turnover rate and are shooting the ball very poorly ..neither of those 2 are drastically changing with wiseman
you are trying to call me out on my knowledge but use fake information to do so..this memphis team needs jeremiah martin, not wiseman
Agree to disagree. Just don't think you really understand JW's abilities. This league has never seen anything close. Not to mention his rim protection on the D end. Guess we'll never know. And Please don't say Taco. Please.
(01-31-2020 03:00 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote: My previous post for context:
The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
(01-31-2020 02:35 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:
(01-31-2020 02:15 PM)pesik Wrote:
(01-31-2020 02:07 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:
(01-31-2020 01:43 PM)pesik Wrote: your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
It is obvious losing a player of Wiseman's caliber has a materially detrimental effect on the team's performance. When the obvious is ignored by a poster; either willful ignorance or deliberate antagonizing is the cause. In both cases, ignoring the source is a viable option because he or she is untouched by the power of reason and logic or unbound from the limits of civil discourse.
(01-31-2020 01:43 PM)pesik Wrote: your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
it was never built around feeding jw in the post.. you fed him versus teams that were tiny, like sc st..in the oregon game he was 5th in attempts and was 7th in attempts in th UIC game..
there was also 2 full high school and aau years of wiseman under penny..wiseman has never been a high volume scorer ...
again wiseman played the full game vs oregon and you shoot from 3: 4 makes in 23 attempts and 13 turnovers...wiseman did play in that game..we have evidence he wasnt going to magically improve the shooting
and yes Wiseman is an absolute game changer for certain teams...specifically any team that needs a big...
memphis is deeply flawed at the guard positions, you have an insanely high turnover rate and are shooting the ball very poorly ..neither of those 2 are drastically changing with wiseman
you are trying to call me out on my knowledge but use fake information to do so..this memphis team needs jeremiah martin, not wiseman
(01-31-2020 02:07 PM)cvilletiger Wrote: Are you serious? How would JW help the guard play? If this has to be explained, I'm on the wrong board. Thought you were a real coach. I see that you're not. Just a nickname?
you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
it was never built around feeding jw in the post.. you fed him versus teams that were tiny, like sc st..in the oregon game he was 5th in attempts and was 7th in attempts in th UIC game..
there was also 2 full high school and aau years of wiseman under penny..wiseman has never been a high volume scorer ...
again wiseman played the full game vs oregon and you shoot from 3: 4 makes in 23 attempts and 13 turnovers...wiseman did play in that game..we have evidence he wasnt going to magically improve the shooting
and yes Wiseman is an absolute game changer for certain teams...specifically any team that needs a big...
memphis is deeply flawed at the guard positions, you have an insanely high turnover rate and are shooting the ball very poorly ..neither of those 2 are drastically changing with wiseman
you are trying to call me out on my knowledge but use fake information to do so..this memphis team needs jeremiah martin, not wiseman
you missed my point...look at iowa and florida..add wiseman to those teams doesnt make them drastically better..they already have all-american elite bigs, who they run their offense through as is ....wiseman joining those 2 teams would mean wiseman likely takes the minutes of those bigss and drastically eats into their stats...it doesnt mean they become elite teams..they would still be having the same guard issues...they alreayd had elite bigs
for teams with elite guard play and suspect bigs like wiseman could be the difference between a final 4 team
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 03:25 PM by pesik.)
(01-31-2020 02:15 PM)pesik Wrote: you comfortably lost to oregon, who wasnt at full strenght with wiseman...
wisemans aau teams were never good..they started as the #1 preseason aau team and then went .500 in games...lets not act like he is some magic fix to greatness
and my point, you already have great big play from precious...wiseman playing likely means precious numbers are cut in half... it doesnt magically make your 3pt% good or reduce the ridiculous amounts of turnovers you have per game
your take is ridiculously simplistic,....leave the coaching to the coaches lol
anyone who thinks wiseman alone would have fixed Memphis this season isnt paying attention
You can't be a coach. We have NO post play. Precious is a 6'9 wing. Our entire offense was built around feeding JW in the post. We have a huge hole in the middle. Teams can extend zones. can't guarantee better 3 point shooting, but they would be open 3's and that usually helps. Coaches usually know this. trying to keep it simple for you. Add JW to any of top 8 in league and they're final 4 team.
it was never built around feeding jw in the post.. you fed him versus teams that were tiny, like sc st..in the oregon game he was 5th in attempts and was 7th in attempts in th UIC game..
there was also 2 full high school and aau years of wiseman under penny..wiseman has never been a high volume scorer ...
again wiseman played the full game vs oregon and you shoot from 3: 4 makes in 23 attempts and 13 turnovers...wiseman did play in that game..we have evidence he wasnt going to magically improve the shooting
and yes Wiseman is an absolute game changer for certain teams...specifically any team that needs a big...
memphis is deeply flawed at the guard positions, you have an insanely high turnover rate and are shooting the ball very poorly ..neither of those 2 are drastically changing with wiseman
you are trying to call me out on my knowledge but use fake information to do so..this memphis team needs jeremiah martin, not wiseman
you missed my point...look at iowa and florida..add wiseman to those teams doesnt make them drastically better..they already have all-american elite bigs, who they run their offense through as is ....wiseman joining those 2 teams would mean wiseman likely takes the minutes of those bigss and drastically eats into their stats...it doesnt mean they become elite teams..they would still be having the same guard issues...they alreayd had elite bigs
for teams with elite guard play and suspect bigs like wiseman could be the difference between a final 4 team
(01-30-2020 02:04 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote: No, I don't know who the *&^% Dez Merriweather is... and to be frank I don't give a sh*t. Uh, did Penny pay $11,500 to move this guy and his family to Memphis too?
I was coming at it more from how a coach can turn the #1 recruiting class in the country into an 80-40 loss to freakin' Tulsa.
I can't either on that one. I want to believe it's the "flu like symptoms" purportedly spread to the rest of the team because Penny didn't quarantine him, but I don't know.
You should give a **** who Desmond Merriweather is before you hurle insults at Penny's college coaching
Those are fighting words if you said them to his face and don't understand what drives him.
OK yeah, now that you remind me I actually do know who that guy is. That's all fine and great.
Stay on task here, dude.
We're talking about Penny as coach at Memphis. And... he aint done much.
I remind you? They made a pact to bring a Championship to Memphis at every level. 2 out of 3 boxes checked.
Middle School State Championship. Check.
High School State Championship. Check.
University of Memphis National Championship. TBD. #1 recruiting class starting the process is a good step, wouldn't you agree?
This a thread on Memphis BB. Please don't lecture me on what you don't understand between the local Memphis basketball community and Penny Hardaway, his love for Memphis, and his relationship with Desmond Merriweather. And your baseless assumptions that he only understands recruiting.
Do a little Due Diligence.
Tulsa 80
Memphis 40
That... is bad.
yep, getting blown out sucks but I remember Cal talking about his first really good team at UMass...they lost two games by 20+ points and still made the Sweet 16.
