(01-30-2020 04:51 PM)steves Wrote: Penny is a sophmore as a college coach. He's got ... room for improvement. But if he can keep bringing in talent like Precious Achuiwa ... He's gonna be fine. Don't ya think ?
I don't think he's going to keep getting kids like Precious unless he has success. If he goes NIT this season, I see him doing more poorly on the recruiting front.
(01-30-2020 04:38 PM)Atlanta Wrote: I think he clearly out coaches Marshall at WSU in a close game & then going on to the NIT with essentially the same talent as Tubby who did not make any tournament appearances while at Memphis.
Just curious how so? I actually don't remember the game. I think the entire notion of being "out coached" in a given game is way over done.
I think coaches make the best decisions they can on the information before them and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I think you have to look at more than a game about being "out coached".
Maybe an actual coach can weigh in. Was Custer outcoached at the Little Bighorn? Or did he just have bad information?
Guess you just focused on the @WSU game, but I noted the entire season. But I also disagree with you idea that you can't compare coaches in their individual games. It happens all the time.
(01-30-2020 04:38 PM)Atlanta Wrote: I think he clearly out coaches Marshall at WSU in a close game & then going on to the NIT with essentially the same talent as Tubby who did not make any tournament appearances while at Memphis.
Just curious how so? I actually don't remember the game. I think the entire notion of being "out coached" in a given game is way over done.
I think coaches make the best decisions they can on the information before them and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I think you have to look at more than a game about being "out coached".
Maybe an actual coach can weigh in. Was Custer outcoached at the Little Bighorn? Or did he just have bad information?
Guess you just focused on the @WSU game, but I noted the entire season. But I also disagree with you idea that you can't compare coaches in their individual games. It happens all the time.
Are you saying Penny out coached Marshall over the entirety of last season? Because that's just blatantly not true.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2020 06:55 PM by WhoseHouse?.)
(01-30-2020 04:51 PM)steves Wrote: Penny is a sophmore as a college coach. He's got ... room for improvement. But if he can keep bringing in talent like Precious Achuiwa ... He's gonna be fine. Don't ya think ?
I don't think he's going to keep getting kids like Precious unless he has success. If he goes NIT this season, I see him doing more poorly on the recruiting front.
theyre final 2 for top 2 recruit jalen green...final 2 for top 10 center greg brown..both are higher ranked than precious if they land either
(01-26-2020 07:53 AM)CoogPaw Wrote: I had wondered why so many national news outlets had the Tigers ranked so high at the beginning of the season just because of so many star players, even with Wiseman. Memphis fans and, I, even fell for it. But, slowly, we have come to see that it is not the top 10 program that we thought.
Because of Wiseman. If we had Wiseman and Rayjon Tucker we would be cutting through this conference as planned.
(01-30-2020 04:25 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote: High school coaching is different than college coaching, just as pro coaching is different than college coaching. For every college basketball or football coach that succeeds at the pro level there are multiple good to great college coaches who fail. A lot of Memphis fans expected Penny to step in and be great from the start but he’s having a learning experience. He may end up being a great coach, he’s obviously a great recruiter, the question is will the Memphis fans have the patience for his learning curve. They had no patience with Tubby but he wasn’t part of the family like Penny maybe that will be the difference.
IMO, in the minds of most Memphis fans, there is an ocean of difference between Tubby and Penny at this point, b/c Penny's recruiting has been at a high level, and Tubby couldn't get anybody here but Jucos.
We all know Penny will have a learning curve, which Tubby certainly didn't have, which also buys Penny much more time. Not to mention, the entire fan base wants Penny to succeed, b/c he is one of us, and will likely stay with us.
I don't see him swinging the same level of recruiting class again until he learns how to coach. Precious is going to go to the NBA after this season. I could see Jeffries leaving as well. Penny doesn't seem to be able to coach 4 of the top 60 players to the highest level... what's going to happen when he doesn't have those guys either?
I don't think you realize how poorly Tubby did with recruiting in his 2 years. Penny could go 5 years without signing another recruit and still be ahead of him, which makes my point about Memphis fans giving him a lot more room than you would think (along with him being a home town hero).
I also would say Precious has improved his mock draft status from mid-first round to lottery pick, or better. No recruit is going to blame Penny for Wiseman quitting. And DJ is most likely retirnoing.
Meanwhile, we will likely still sign Jalen Green, and are leading (according to Corey Evans) for Greg Brown. And we are way in the lead for Moussa Cisse in the Class of 2021, and have a blockbuster class possible for 2022.
I think you are reading WAY too much into our 15-5 record so far as being something that is going to kill recruiting.
(01-30-2020 04:38 PM)Atlanta Wrote: I think he clearly out coaches Marshall at WSU in a close game & then going on to the NIT with essentially the same talent as Tubby who did not make any tournament appearances while at Memphis.
Just curious how so? I actually don't remember the game. I think the entire notion of being "out coached" in a given game is way over done.
I think coaches make the best decisions they can on the information before them and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I think you have to look at more than a game about being "out coached".
Maybe an actual coach can weigh in. Was Custer outcoached at the Little Bighorn? Or did he just have bad information?
Guess you just focused on the @WSU game, but I noted the entire season. But I also disagree with you idea that you can't compare coaches in their individual games. It happens all the time.
So what did Penny do in that game to outcoach Marshall? That's my question.
(01-26-2020 02:46 PM)SadderBudweiser Wrote: How things change! The pre-season hot seats were Haith and Jank. Haith looks safe and jank will at least have a case to present.
Things getting a little warm under Penny and Hurley. Honeymoons are over.
LOL. Penny is not on the hot seat.
He cooks up some awesome eggs, bacon and sausage under that hot seat, the Omelets he serves are awesome, buttered biscuits and pancakes on the side if we'd prefer. I go for a warm bowl of oatmeal on the side while his seat is hot.
Served with some great cold Milk and OJ refreshments.
Don't forget the King Cotton kielbasa. Good stuff right there! All da smoke
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2020 10:35 PM by Coach Bonez89.)
(01-30-2020 11:32 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: What... High school? AAU?
I'm sorry, are new guys supposed to get your approval or something?
I think the facts speak for themselves. Penny aint done jack as a coach yet.
State Championships isn't Jack? He hasn't paid his dues on multiple levels to coach at this level? Where do you cockroaches come from?
I'm guessing you have no idea the pact he had with Dez Merriweather, now deceased. Or did even you realize there was an ultimate game plan since he started coaching with Dez in Middle School?
No, I don't know who the *&^% Dez Merriweather is... and to be frank I don't give a sh*t. Uh, did Penny pay $11,500 to move this guy and his family to Memphis too?
I was coming at it more from how a coach can turn the #1 recruiting class in the country into an 80-40 loss to freakin' Tulsa.
I can't either on that one. I want to believe it's the "flu like symptoms" purportedly spread to the rest of the team because Penny didn't quarantine him, but I don't know.
You should give a **** who Desmond Merriweather is before you hurle insults at Penny's college coaching
Those are fighting words if you said them to his face and don't understand what drives him.
OK yeah, now that you remind me I actually do know who that guy is. That's all fine and great.
Stay on task here, dude.
We're talking about Penny as coach at Memphis. And... he aint done much.
I remind you? They made a pact to bring a Championship to Memphis at every level. 2 out of 3 boxes checked.
Middle School State Championship. Check.
High School State Championship. Check.
University of Memphis National Championship. TBD. #1 recruiting class starting the process is a good step, wouldn't you agree?
This a thread on Memphis BB. Please don't lecture me on what you don't understand between the local Memphis basketball community and Penny Hardaway, his love for Memphis, and his relationship with Desmond Merriweather. And your baseless assumptions that he only understands recruiting.
(01-26-2020 02:46 PM)SadderBudweiser Wrote: How things change! The pre-season hot seats were Haith and Jank. Haith looks safe and jank will at least have a case to present.
Things getting a little warm under Penny and Hurley. Honeymoons are over.
LOL. Penny is not on the hot seat.
He cooks up some awesome eggs, bacon and sausage under that hot seat, the Omelets he serves are awesome, buttered biscuits and pancakes on the side if we'd prefer. I go for a warm bowl of oatmeal on the side while his seat is hot.
Served with some great cold Milk and OJ refreshments.
Don't forget the King Cotton kielbasa. Good stuff right there! All da smoke
"Be Smart. Stay Clean. And Keep the Dream." I think that was King Cotton.
(01-30-2020 04:25 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote: High school coaching is different than college coaching, just as pro coaching is different than college coaching. For every college basketball or football coach that succeeds at the pro level there are multiple good to great college coaches who fail. A lot of Memphis fans expected Penny to step in and be great from the start but he’s having a learning experience. He may end up being a great coach, he’s obviously a great recruiter, the question is will the Memphis fans have the patience for his learning curve. They had no patience with Tubby but he wasn’t part of the family like Penny maybe that will be the difference.
That ship sailed the moment he uttered something to the effect of "Memphis needs to know its place. It's not a high-major program." As soon as he said that sh!t, and he started bringing in jucos, it was obvious he was here for a retirement party.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 01:18 AM by geosnooker2000.)
(01-29-2020 01:10 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote: Penny's learning that college basketball is more than just recruiting. You can throw good players out on the court and win most of the time in the NBA, but not here.
He's learned that not only do you have to recruit them but keep them eligible and then keep them from quitting to prepare for the draft.
(01-30-2020 04:38 PM)Atlanta Wrote: I think he clearly out coaches Marshall at WSU in a close game & then going on to the NIT with essentially the same talent as Tubby who did not make any tournament appearances while at Memphis.
Just curious how so? I actually don't remember the game. I think the entire notion of being "out coached" in a given game is way over done.
I think coaches make the best decisions they can on the information before them and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I think you have to look at more than a game about being "out coached".
Maybe an actual coach can weigh in. Was Custer outcoached at the Little Bighorn? Or did he just have bad information?
Nobody really knows. It's usually saved for inexperienced coaches that happen to lose to an established coach. But, God forbid, anyone dare say Penny outcoached Marshall last year. I mean with that talent laden team that tubby left Penny
Memphis is in. They have 5 star players. They are the best team in the league by far just according to their stars. Their bench players have more stars than everyone else. It’s all about the stars guys! Stars stars stars.
(01-30-2020 04:38 PM)Atlanta Wrote: I think he clearly out coaches Marshall at WSU in a close game & then going on to the NIT with essentially the same talent as Tubby who did not make any tournament appearances while at Memphis.
Just curious how so? I actually don't remember the game. I think the entire notion of being "out coached" in a given game is way over done.
I think coaches make the best decisions they can on the information before them and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I think you have to look at more than a game about being "out coached".
Maybe an actual coach can weigh in. Was Custer outcoached at the Little Bighorn? Or did he just have bad information?
Guess you just focused on the @WSU game, but I noted the entire season. But I also disagree with you idea that you can't compare coaches in their individual games. It happens all the time.
Are you saying Penny out coached Marshall over the entirety of last season? Because that's just blatantly not true.
Penny got a ton of help last year from J Martin going hero mode the 2nd half of the year. Dude was unstoppable for a while.
The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
(01-30-2020 04:38 PM)Atlanta Wrote: I think he clearly out coaches Marshall at WSU in a close game & then going on to the NIT with essentially the same talent as Tubby who did not make any tournament appearances while at Memphis.
Just curious how so? I actually don't remember the game. I think the entire notion of being "out coached" in a given game is way over done.
I think coaches make the best decisions they can on the information before them and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I think you have to look at more than a game about being "out coached".
Maybe an actual coach can weigh in. Was Custer outcoached at the Little Bighorn? Or did he just have bad information?
Guess you just focused on the @WSU game, but I noted the entire season. But I also disagree with you idea that you can't compare coaches in their individual games. It happens all the time.
Are you saying Penny out coached Marshall over the entirety of last season? Because that's just blatantly not true.
I said what I said, read it, not the cut and paste to fit someone's argument.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 12:59 PM by Atlanta.)
(01-31-2020 09:35 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
your #1 player was a big.. your big play has been fine...wiseman back wouldnt have magically given you great guard play ..yall would still be struggling
this isnt a james left cleveland situation by any definition
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2020 01:15 PM by pesik.)
(01-31-2020 09:35 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
your #1 player was a big.. your big play has been fine...wiseman back wouldnt have magically given you great guard play ..yall would still be struggling
this isnt a james left cleveland situation by any definition
The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
(01-31-2020 09:35 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: The main issues with Memphis are easy to identify. The Tigers are the youngest team in college basketball missing their best player and arguable the best player in the world for his age (Wiseman is a potential NBA #1 pick). The situation is akin to the Heat's situation when James left for Cleveland and Miami missed the playoffs the next season despite having Wade and Bosh on the roster.
your #1 player was a big.. your big play has been fine...wiseman back wouldnt have magically given you great guard play ..yall would still be struggling
this isnt a james left cleveland situation by any definition
The example I cited was James leaving Miami for Cleveland.
We will just have to disagree that the absence of an elite of the elite player does not have profound impact on performance of a college basketball team. Carry on...
your 3pt shooting improves with wiseman? wiseman would have run the point to reduce the turnovers?
your take is simplistic to "just started watching basketball" levels
