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DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
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RobtheAggie Offline
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Post: #1
DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
All:
Since the thread about Metro St is getting a little convoluted I wanted to start a separate thread here. This is for only non-football schools. I ask the moderators to move any posts about WAC FCS to another thread.

More rules.
1. No CA state school will be included due to the law about public funds travel to Texas.
2. No speculation about dropping football/adding football/where to put football, these are the schools without football.

Alaska:

UAF - 9,380
UAA - 16,242

California
Academy of Art - 16,000
Concordia - Irvine - 2,564
Dominican University of CA - 2,125
Fresno Pacific - 3,700
Holy Names - 1,331
Notre Dame de Namur - 1,967
Point Loma Nazerene - 3,487


Colorado[/]
Colorado Christian - 5,100
UC-Colorado Springs - 10,300
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
Regis U - 9,722


[u]Hawaii

Chaminade - 2,836
Hawai'i Pacific - 9,000
Hawai'i - Hilo - 3,600

Idaho
Northwest Nazerene 2,000

Montana
MSU - Billings - 4,600

Oregon
Concordia University - Portland 3,500


Texas
Dallas Baptist - 5,500
Lubbock Christian - 2,100
St Edward's- 5,500
St. Mary's - 4,500
A&M - International - 4,298

Washington
Seattle Pacific - 3,773
Western Washington - 13,070
Saint Martin's - 1,628


Just for current comparison, the current WAC has 9 schools with an enrollment that maxes out with UVU of 33,211, and the bottom is Chicago St with 3,578. Endowment stretches from 3 million at Chicago St to $214 million at NMSU. 3 private schools, 6 public.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2018 12:25 PM by RobtheAggie.)
11-06-2018 08:47 AM
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SeattleVandals Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Would that law really prevent any California public D2 school from moving up to the WAC? I would have to think they could get a waiver if it was the only thing stopping a D1 moveup
11-06-2018 09:13 AM
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RobtheAggie Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 09:13 AM)SeattleVandals Wrote:  Would that law really prevent any California public D2 school from moving up to the WAC? I would have to think they could get a waiver if it was the only thing stopping a D1 moveup

To my understanding the law does not prohibit any schools from moving up, but the usage of public funds on travel to states that are on their naughty list. Texas is one of those.
11-06-2018 10:03 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Dallas Baptist, and their great DI Baseball team would be a good addition, and would fit in nicely with CBU and GCU.
11-06-2018 11:56 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Remove Fort Lewis and Angelo State. They both have football.
11-06-2018 12:10 PM
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joeben69 Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 08:47 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  All:
Since the thread about Metro St is getting a little convoluted I wanted to start a separate thread here. This is for only non-football schools. I ask the moderators to move any posts about WAC FCS to another thread.

More rules.
1. No CA state school will be included due to the law about public funds travel to Texas.
2. No speculation about dropping football/adding football/where to put football, these are the schools without football.

Alaska:

UAF - 9,380
UAA - 16,242

California
Academy of Art - 16,000
Concordia - Irvine - 2,564
Dominican University of CA - 2,125
Fresno Pacific - 3,700
Holy Names - 1,331
Notre Dame de Namur - 1,967
Point Loma Nazerene - 3,487


Colorado[/]
Colorado Christian - 5,100
UC-Colorado Springs - 10,300
Fort Lewis - 4,000
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
Regis U - 9,722


[u]Hawaii

Chaminade - 2,836
Hawai'i Pacific - 9,000
Hawai'i - Hilo - 3,600

Idaho
Northwest Nazerene 2,000

Montana
MSU - Billings - 4,600

Oregon
Concordia University - Portland 3,500


Texas
Angelo St - 10,447
Dallas Baptist - 5,500
Lubbock Christian - 2,100
St Edward's- 5,500
St. Mary's - 4,500
A&M - International - 4,298

Washington
Seattle Pacific - 3,773
Western Washington - 13,070
Saint Martin's - 1,628


Just for current comparison, the current WAC has 9 schools with an enrollment that maxes out with UVU of 33,211, and the bottom is Chicago St with 3,578. Endowment stretches from 3 million at Chicago St to $214 million at NMSU. 3 private schools, 6 public.

Based on the above list I could see...
UAA - 16,242
Academy of Art - 16,000
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
...making the move to the WAC based on school population and regional fit...

UAA would be another outlier...so if UAA doesn't work out then Western Washington - 13,070 would be a regional good fit...

Academy of Art is a CA private school so i don't think that they would have to worry about traveling to TX...

MSU-Denver seems to fit the profile of the WAC and it's in the middle of the WAC footprint...maybe they could change the name to Denver State University for marketing purposes if/when they make the jump to D1...
11-06-2018 12:22 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #7
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 12:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Remove Fort Lewis and Angelo State. They both have football.
Beat me to it.
11-06-2018 12:24 PM
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RobtheAggie Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 12:10 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Remove Fort Lewis and Angelo State. They both have football.

Done, my omission. None of the CA schools are on the list are public, so the travel rule would not apply to them.
11-06-2018 12:26 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 12:22 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(11-06-2018 08:47 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  All:
Since the thread about Metro St is getting a little convoluted I wanted to start a separate thread here. This is for only non-football schools. I ask the moderators to move any posts about WAC FCS to another thread.

More rules.
1. No CA state school will be included due to the law about public funds travel to Texas.
2. No speculation about dropping football/adding football/where to put football, these are the schools without football.

Alaska:

UAF - 9,380
UAA - 16,242

California
Academy of Art - 16,000
Concordia - Irvine - 2,564
Dominican University of CA - 2,125
Fresno Pacific - 3,700
Holy Names - 1,331
Notre Dame de Namur - 1,967
Point Loma Nazerene - 3,487


Colorado[/]
Colorado Christian - 5,100
UC-Colorado Springs - 10,300
Fort Lewis - 4,000
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
Regis U - 9,722


[u]Hawaii

Chaminade - 2,836
Hawai'i Pacific - 9,000
Hawai'i - Hilo - 3,600

Idaho
Northwest Nazerene 2,000

Montana
MSU - Billings - 4,600

Oregon
Concordia University - Portland 3,500


Texas
Angelo St - 10,447
Dallas Baptist - 5,500
Lubbock Christian - 2,100
St Edward's- 5,500
St. Mary's - 4,500
A&M - International - 4,298

Washington
Seattle Pacific - 3,773
Western Washington - 13,070
Saint Martin's - 1,628


Just for current comparison, the current WAC has 9 schools with an enrollment that maxes out with UVU of 33,211, and the bottom is Chicago St with 3,578. Endowment stretches from 3 million at Chicago St to $214 million at NMSU. 3 private schools, 6 public.

Based on the above list I could see...
UAA - 16,242
Academy of Art - 16,000
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
...making the move to the WAC based on school population and regional fit...

UAA would be another outlier...so if UAA doesn't work out then Western Washington - 13,070 would be a regional good fit...

Academy of Art is a CA private school so i don't think that they would have to worry about traveling to TX...

MSU-Denver seems to fit the profile of the WAC and it's in the middle of the WAC footprint...maybe they could change the name to Denver State University for marketing purposes if/when they make the jump to D1...

Academy of Art is a 4 profit school. Would hold off on them until GCU drops the 4 profit label.
11-06-2018 12:26 PM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #10
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Westminster College located in Salt Lake City. No football. Enrollment 3,108. Joined the Rocky Mountain Athletic Conference in 2015. I do not believe they have any desire to move to D1.
11-06-2018 12:27 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #11
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 08:47 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  All:
Since the thread about Metro St is getting a little convoluted I wanted to start a separate thread here. This is for only non-football schools. I ask the moderators to move any posts about WAC FCS to another thread.

More rules.
1. No CA state school will be included due to the law about public funds travel to Texas.
2. No speculation about dropping football/adding football/where to put football, these are the schools without football.

Alaska:

UAF - 9,380
UAA - 16,242

California
Academy of Art - 16,000
Concordia - Irvine - 2,564
Dominican University of CA - 2,125
Fresno Pacific - 3,700
Holy Names - 1,331
Notre Dame de Namur - 1,967
Point Loma Nazerene - 3,487


Colorado[/]
Colorado Christian - 5,100
UC-Colorado Springs - 10,300
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
Regis U - 9,722


[u]Hawaii

Chaminade - 2,836
Hawai'i Pacific - 9,000
Hawai'i - Hilo - 3,600

Idaho
Northwest Nazerene 2,000

Montana
MSU - Billings - 4,600

Oregon
Concordia University - Portland 3,500


Texas
Dallas Baptist - 5,500
Lubbock Christian - 2,100
St Edward's- 5,500
St. Mary's - 4,500
A&M - International - 4,298

Washington
Seattle Pacific - 3,773
Western Washington - 13,070
Saint Martin's - 1,628


Just for current comparison, the current WAC has 9 schools with an enrollment that maxes out with UVU of 33,211, and the bottom is Chicago St with 3,578. Endowment stretches from 3 million at Chicago St to $214 million at NMSU. 3 private schools, 6 public.

Alaska and Hawaii are a stretch of being in the WAC footprint. Rather expand in the midwest.
11-06-2018 12:27 PM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #12
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Regarding the Alaska schools. IMHO if the WAC were to take them (I don't know if they are in a position now to move up) I think it would be better to take both as travel partners. Western Washington would be a better travel partner for Seattle.
11-06-2018 12:32 PM
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gleadley Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 12:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-06-2018 12:22 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(11-06-2018 08:47 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  All:
Since the thread about Metro St is getting a little convoluted I wanted to start a separate thread here. This is for only non-football schools. I ask the moderators to move any posts about WAC FCS to another thread.

More rules.
1. No CA state school will be included due to the law about public funds travel to Texas.
2. No speculation about dropping football/adding football/where to put football, these are the schools without football.

Alaska:

UAF - 9,380
UAA - 16,242

California
Academy of Art - 16,000
Concordia - Irvine - 2,564
Dominican University of CA - 2,125
Fresno Pacific - 3,700
Holy Names - 1,331
Notre Dame de Namur - 1,967
Point Loma Nazerene - 3,487


Colorado[/]
Colorado Christian - 5,100
UC-Colorado Springs - 10,300
Fort Lewis - 4,000
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
Regis U - 9,722


[u]Hawaii

Chaminade - 2,836
Hawai'i Pacific - 9,000
Hawai'i - Hilo - 3,600

Idaho
Northwest Nazerene 2,000

Montana
MSU - Billings - 4,600

Oregon
Concordia University - Portland 3,500


Texas
Angelo St - 10,447
Dallas Baptist - 5,500
Lubbock Christian - 2,100
St Edward's- 5,500
St. Mary's - 4,500
A&M - International - 4,298

Washington
Seattle Pacific - 3,773
Western Washington - 13,070
Saint Martin's - 1,628


Just for current comparison, the current WAC has 9 schools with an enrollment that maxes out with UVU of 33,211, and the bottom is Chicago St with 3,578. Endowment stretches from 3 million at Chicago St to $214 million at NMSU. 3 private schools, 6 public.

Based on the above list I could see...
UAA - 16,242
Academy of Art - 16,000
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
...making the move to the WAC based on school population and regional fit...

UAA would be another outlier...so if UAA doesn't work out then Western Washington - 13,070 would be a regional good fit...

Academy of Art is a CA private school so i don't think that they would have to worry about traveling to TX...

MSU-Denver seems to fit the profile of the WAC and it's in the middle of the WAC footprint...maybe they could change the name to Denver State University for marketing purposes if/when they make the jump to D1...

Academy of Art is a 4 profit school. Would hold off on them until GCU drops the 4 profit label.

GCU has been a nonprofit institution since July 1, 2018. So, why does Academy of Art always come up in these conversations? They have nearly zero student/fan support, as proven out by 2017-18 Average Attendance figures...

Basketball - 130
W. Basketball - 67
Baseball - 79
Softball - 49
Soccer - 77
W. Soccer - 63

The WAC's last two DII call ups were the most recent Learfield Cup winners. Academy of Art wasn't the worst last year, but they also weren't Top 50. I just don't see how they fit the model.
11-06-2018 12:54 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
You might want to add Cameron from Lawton, Oklahoma. They are just north of Dallas.
11-06-2018 01:12 PM
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RobtheAggie Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Cameron is on Probation for all sports if I remember correctly. Academy of Art simply was in the footprint. My original criteria were simply to identify schools that could potentially move up, they did fit that. I agree that the Alaska and Hawai'i schools are too far afield.

I seem to remember that Westminister had to restart their transition process. They are not done yet with the NAIA-NCAA II process. That is why I did not include them on the list.

I guess what I am seeing is a confirmation that there are not really any schools that just jump out that have not already been discussed. Ad nauseum.
11-06-2018 02:39 PM
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gleadley Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 02:39 PM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  Cameron is on Probation for all sports if I remember correctly. Academy of Art simply was in the footprint. My original criteria were simply to identify schools that could potentially move up, they did fit that. I agree that the Alaska and Hawai'i schools are too far afield.

I seem to remember that Westminister had to restart their transition process. They are not done yet with the NAIA-NCAA II process. That is why I did not include them on the list.

I guess what I am seeing is a confirmation that there are not really any schools that just jump out that have not already been discussed. Ad nauseum.

Thanks for putting in the work, and AA comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you. More of a general observation, I suppose. Either way, your point is well proven and taken. I will believe that something is going to happen once it has actually happened.
11-06-2018 03:05 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 03:05 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(11-06-2018 02:39 PM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  Cameron is on Probation for all sports if I remember correctly. Academy of Art simply was in the footprint. My original criteria were simply to identify schools that could potentially move up, they did fit that. I agree that the Alaska and Hawai'i schools are too far afield.

I seem to remember that Westminister had to restart their transition process. They are not done yet with the NAIA-NCAA II process. That is why I did not include them on the list.

I guess what I am seeing is a confirmation that there are not really any schools that just jump out that have not already been discussed. Ad nauseum.

Thanks for putting in the work, and AA comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you. More of a general observation, I suppose. Either way, your point is well proven and taken. I will believe that something is going to happen once it has actually happened.

Yup, speculation is good for killing time.
11-06-2018 03:19 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 08:47 AM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  All:
Since the thread about Metro St is getting a little convoluted I wanted to start a separate thread here. This is for only non-football schools. I ask the moderators to move any posts about WAC FCS to another thread.

More rules.
1. No CA state school will be included due to the law about public funds travel to Texas.
2. No speculation about dropping football/adding football/where to put football, these are the schools without football.

Alaska:

UAF - 9,380
UAA - 16,242

California
Academy of Art - 16,000
Concordia - Irvine - 2,564
Dominican University of CA - 2,125
Fresno Pacific - 3,700
Holy Names - 1,331
Notre Dame de Namur - 1,967
Point Loma Nazerene - 3,487


Colorado[/]
Colorado Christian - 5,100
UC-Colorado Springs - 10,300
Metro State - Denver - 24,000
Regis U - 9,722


[u]Hawaii

Chaminade - 2,836
Hawai'i Pacific - 9,000
Hawai'i - Hilo - 3,600

Idaho
Northwest Nazerene 2,000

Montana
MSU - Billings - 4,600

Oregon
Concordia University - Portland 3,500


Texas
Dallas Baptist - 5,500
Lubbock Christian - 2,100
St Edward's- 5,500
St. Mary's - 4,500
A&M - International - 4,298

Washington
Seattle Pacific - 3,773
Western Washington - 13,070
Saint Martin's - 1,628


Just for current comparison, the current WAC has 9 schools with an enrollment that maxes out with UVU of 33,211, and the bottom is Chicago St with 3,578. Endowment stretches from 3 million at Chicago St to $214 million at NMSU. 3 private schools, 6 public.

From the non-football schools listed (aside from some of the California state schools not listed) the only schools I see as realistic options are Metropolitan State of Denver, Western Washington, and possibly St. Mary's (San Antonio, TX). St. Mary's has a fairly large endowment and nice facilities.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2018 03:37 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
11-06-2018 03:19 PM
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ManleyPointer Offline
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Post: #19
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Biola is new to D2. Probably don't have the resources to make another move up. But they seem a lot like Azusa without the football.
11-06-2018 03:27 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(11-06-2018 02:39 PM)RobtheAggie Wrote:  Cameron is on Probation for all sports if I remember correctly. Academy of Art simply was in the footprint. My original criteria were simply to identify schools that could potentially move up, they did fit that. I agree that the Alaska and Hawai'i schools are too far afield.

I seem to remember that Westminister had to restart their transition process. They are not done yet with the NAIA-NCAA II process. That is why I did not include them on the list.

I guess what I am seeing is a confirmation that there are not really any schools that just jump out that have not already been discussed. Ad nauseum.


Just checked. Cameron is not on probation.
Central State, Ohio entire program
Seattle Pacific University Entire program until March 9th, 2019
West Texas A&M University Football
Eastern New Mexico University Entire program
Fayetteville State University Women's basketball

Cheney was on the list, but they dropped out of the NCAA. The only school in the footprint that is on probation without football is Seattle Pacific. Not sure you want to double down in the same town. Western Washington and Saint Martin's would be better.
11-06-2018 05:32 PM
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