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DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #61
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Just about all of the D-II schools left in the WAC footprint with any realistic interest in moving up to D-I have football programs. That means the best approach to expansion for the conference may be to invite several such schools with the intent of cobbling together a second western FCS conference. If the WAC dropped Chicago State and added Azusa Pacific, Tarleton State, West Texas A&M, Texas A&M Commerce and Texas A&M Kingsville it would have the six football schools needed and would close the geography gap between NMSU and UTRGV.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2019 03:27 AM by HawaiiMongoose.)
06-25-2019 02:50 AM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #62
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
My concern about any D2 school making the leap is they need to have a built-in way of increasing revenue. GCU had the non-profit angle. Cal Baptist appears to be a rich private school located in a populated area. Dixie State is located in one of the fastest growing cities (St George, pop. 171,700) in the nation.

Dixie State Feasibility

Dixie State WAC invite

Any new D2 school addition will need a means for additional financial resources. This eliminates a lot of the proposed D2 additions. Not a lot of these D2 schools can make a realistic jump to D1. Many of D2 schools reside in "too small" of communities; have too small of enrollment; Lack the financial boosters; lack the infrastructure (facilities) to make the D1 jump. Tarleton State is probably in the best shape to make the jump of the D2 schools in Texas. And, yet they are located in a small community (Stephenville, TX pop. 20,797) approximately 100 miles to the southwest of Dallas.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2019 08:59 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-25-2019 08:42 PM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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Post: #63
DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Tarleton, maybe West Texas A&M. Really could use A&M Corpus. Need the Southland to boot them for not having football.
06-25-2019 08:58 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Offline
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Post: #64
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
"IF" the WAC decides to go the FCS football route, Hurd should be targeting a few FCS schools like Southern Utah, Weber State, and North Arizona who would have built in rivalries with our current members (Dixie State, Utah Valley, and GCU). Just my opinion... no facts to support it.
06-25-2019 09:16 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #65
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(06-25-2019 09:16 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  "IF" the WAC decides to go the FCS football route, Hurd should be targeting a few FCS schools like Southern Utah, Weber State, and North Arizona who would have built in rivalries with our current members (Dixie State, Utah Valley, and GCU). Just my opinion... no facts to support it.

Weber and NAU are long time (like founding member long) BSC members. They ain't leaving the BSC for the WAC, and they don't have the right sports mix for the WAC.

More "realistic" targets are SUU and UNC, but I don't see either of them leaving unless the BSC (montuckies) strongly encouraged them bounce. Even then there is nothing that could force them to leave the BSC.
06-25-2019 11:00 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #66
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Can we all at least agree to stop talking about GCU and UTRGV starting up football? Neither is doing it. I'm tired of reading about "if" GCU/UTRGV would just start up football. They have vehemently stated they are not interested.
06-26-2019 05:18 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #67
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(06-26-2019 05:18 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Can we all at least agree to stop talking about GCU and UTRGV starting up football? Neither is doing it. I'm tired of reading about "if" GCU/UTRGV would just start up football. They have vehemently stated they are not interested.

+1
06-26-2019 06:58 PM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #68
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(06-25-2019 02:50 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Just about all of the D-II schools left in the WAC footprint with any realistic interest in moving up to D-I have football programs. That means the best approach to expansion for the conference may be to invite several such schools with the intent of cobbling together a second western FCS conference.

I think you're right. After UC-Colo Spgs & West. Wash., there aren't many feasible schools. I don't see the Cal State D2s wanting to spend $$ to jump up a division (UC-SD was a very different type of school). It's hard to imagine you could pry away a Southland or Big Sky school.

If WAC had FCS, that makes things easy for Dixie. Maaaybe you could convince one of the Big Sky affiliates (CP-SLO, UCDavis) to leave a 13 team league (14 w North Dakota this year). Grab a Texas school, a Colorado school, Central Washington? It's time to end the discrimination against Canada and bring in Simon Fraser!! (If Arkansas Tech ever wanted to make a move, now is it!)

Many potential D2 move ups have football teams. The WAC has to give them some place to put those teams. (Not every school president is willing to go through what UNOmaha did when they dropped their football program.) Maybe the WAC can become the western branch of the Pioneer League, if nothing else?
06-26-2019 08:21 PM
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chrisattsu Offline
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Post: #69
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(06-25-2019 08:42 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  My concern about any D2 school making the leap is they need to have a built-in way of increasing revenue. GCU had the non-profit angle. Cal Baptist appears to be a rich private school located in a populated area. Dixie State is located in one of the fastest growing cities (St George, pop. 171,700) in the nation.

Dixie State Feasibility

Dixie State WAC invite

Any new D2 school addition will need a means for additional financial resources. This eliminates a lot of the proposed D2 additions. Not a lot of these D2 schools can make a realistic jump to D1. Many of D2 schools reside in "too small" of communities; have too small of enrollment; Lack the financial boosters; lack the infrastructure (facilities) to make the D1 jump. Tarleton State is probably in the best shape to make the jump of the D2 schools in Texas. And, yet they are located in a small community (Stephenville, TX pop. 20,797) approximately 100 miles to the southwest of Dallas.

Tarleton is located in a small town. That has the potential to cap the high end, but it also means that it is only show in town. I could see it being another Stephen F Austin type school where the pieces are there but they needto be put together.

Tarleton averaged 1100 last year for MBB which isn't great but it is higher than many D1 schools (including those in major cities - Portland, Denver, New Orleans). Major market doesnt mean they own the market
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf


Tarleton has shown a commitment to facilities and raised their athletic fee to $22/credit hour. They have 13,000 students and a large alumni base in Dallas.
06-26-2019 09:17 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #70
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(06-26-2019 08:21 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(06-25-2019 02:50 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Just about all of the D-II schools left in the WAC footprint with any realistic interest in moving up to D-I have football programs. That means the best approach to expansion for the conference may be to invite several such schools with the intent of cobbling together a second western FCS conference.

I think you're right. After UC-Colo Spgs & West. Wash., there aren't many feasible schools. I don't see the Cal State D2s wanting to spend $$ to jump up a division (UC-SD was a very different type of school). It's hard to imagine you could pry away a Southland or Big Sky school.

If WAC had FCS, that makes things easy for Dixie. Maaaybe you could convince one of the Big Sky affiliates (CP-SLO, UCDavis) to leave a 13 team league (14 w North Dakota this year). Grab a Texas school, a Colorado school, Central Washington? It's time to end the discrimination against Canada and bring in Simon Fraser!! (If Arkansas Tech ever wanted to make a move, now is it!)

Many potential D2 move ups have football teams. The WAC has to give them some place to put those teams. (Not every school president is willing to go through what UNOmaha did when they dropped their football program.) Maybe the WAC can become the western branch of the Pioneer League, if nothing else?

Ha Ha. No thank you. Arkansas Tech would never consider joining the WAC in this hypothetical scenario that we move to D1. With the exception of David, we like where we are. Our longest conference trip is less than 400 miles and we have a real opportunity to win national championships. That's two of the four main reasons we have no interest in D1.
06-26-2019 10:03 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #71
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Just found this page, so I know I'm late to this conversation. But, interesting that this thread stated no football, yet the WAC added Dixie St. a football school! Though not sure if you started this thread before or after Dixie accepted the invitation!

It's pretty clear that the WAC is hanging it's hat on D2 schools moving up. They were hoping and praying Metro St. moved up. But, they decided to stay D2. So, are they hoping a Washington D2 school will make the move?

But, the WAC is still worried that every school would leave if they got an invitation to a more stable, regional conference. Seattle would jump at a WCC invite, as would CBU and GCU. Utah Valley would accept a Big Sky. UTRGV a Southland invite. While, would take those conferences losing a member and/or changing their by-laws, it can happen.

I wonder what the American conference does next, and if the domino effect of that move will effect the WAC? Say for example, the American takes Charlotte from C-USA. C-USA takes Texas St. from the Sun Belt. What does the Sun Belt do? What if UTEP wants to leaves C-USA and goes to a conference that is more geographically friendly like the Mt. West? Yes, they are in Texas, but West Texas, and in the only C-USA school in the Mountain Time Zone. Texas St. would create four Texas schools-all within maybe 250 miles radius of each other. Houston to El Paso is about 700.

Also, is Bakersfield getting a waiver in regards to that CA law that restricts travel to Texas?
07-12-2019 05:02 AM
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Hilldog Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(06-25-2019 08:58 PM)Johnny Crunch Wrote:  Tarleton, maybe West Texas A&M. Really could use A&M Corpus. Need the Southland to boot them for not having football.

The Southland hasn't booted Corpus or New Orleans for not having football! I think it's more likely the Southland to go an even 14 schools and add non football UTRGV, than it is for them to kick any member out for not having football!

edit-Put UT Arlington instead of New Orleans.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2019 11:01 AM by Hilldog.)
07-12-2019 05:07 AM
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edinburger Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(06-26-2019 05:18 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Can we all at least agree to stop talking about GCU and UTRGV starting up football? Neither is doing it. I'm tired of reading about "if" GCU/UTRGV would just start up football. They have vehemently stated they are not interested.

Well, to be accurate UTRGV has been vehemently silent about it for two years after having talked too much the previous two years.

But you are absolutely correct that we are not doing it.
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2019 08:29 AM by edinburger.)
07-12-2019 08:28 AM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(07-12-2019 05:07 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(06-25-2019 08:58 PM)Johnny Crunch Wrote:  Tarleton, maybe West Texas A&M. Really could use A&M Corpus. Need the Southland to boot them for not having football.

The Southland hasn't booted Corpus or UT Arlington for not having football! I think it's more likely the Southland to go an even 14 schools and add non football UTRGV, than it is for them to kick any member out for not having football!
Would be tough for the Southland to boot UTA from the Sunbelt
(This post was last modified: 07-12-2019 11:11 AM by Johnny Crunch.)
07-12-2019 08:33 AM
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Hilldog Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(07-12-2019 08:33 AM)Johnny Crunch Wrote:  
(07-12-2019 05:07 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  
(06-25-2019 08:58 PM)Johnny Crunch Wrote:  Tarleton, maybe West Texas A&M. Really could use A&M Corpus. Need the Southland to boot them for not having football.

The Southland hasn't booted Corpus or UT Arlington for not having football! I think it's more likely the Southland to go an even 14 schools and add non football UTRGV, than it is for them to kick any member out for not having football!
Would be tough for the Southland to booth UTA from the Sunbelt

I meant New Orleans!
07-12-2019 11:00 AM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #76
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(07-12-2019 05:02 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Just found this page, so I know I'm late to this conversation. But, interesting that this thread stated no football, yet the WAC added Dixie St. a football school! Though not sure if you started this thread before or after Dixie accepted the invitation!

It's pretty clear that the WAC is hanging it's hat on D2 schools moving up. They were hoping and praying Metro St. moved up. But, they decided to stay D2. So, are they hoping a Washington D2 school will make the move?

But, the WAC is still worried that every school would leave if they got an invitation to a more stable, regional conference. Seattle would jump at a WCC invite, as would CBU and GCU. Utah Valley would accept a Big Sky. UTRGV a Southland invite. While, would take those conferences losing a member and/or changing their by-laws, it can happen.

I wonder what the American conference does next, and if the domino effect of that move will effect the WAC? Say for example, the American takes Charlotte from C-USA. C-USA takes Texas St. from the Sun Belt. What does the Sun Belt do? What if UTEP wants to leaves C-USA and goes to a conference that is more geographically friendly like the Mt. West? Yes, they are in Texas, but West Texas, and in the only C-USA school in the Mountain Time Zone. Texas St. would create four Texas schools-all within maybe 250 miles radius of each other. Houston to El Paso is about 700.

Also, is Bakersfield getting a waiver in regards to that CA law that restricts travel to Texas?

If they are getting a waiver, its never been made public knowledge. It's probably one of the reasons they are going to the BW.
07-12-2019 11:14 AM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #77
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
(07-12-2019 05:02 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Just found this page, so I know I'm late to this conversation. But, interesting that this thread stated no football, yet the WAC added Dixie St. a football school! Though not sure if you started this thread before or after Dixie accepted the invitation!

It's pretty clear that the WAC is hanging it's hat on D2 schools moving up. They were hoping and praying Metro St. moved up. But, they decided to stay D2. So, are they hoping a Washington D2 school will make the move?

But, the WAC is still worried that every school would leave if they got an invitation to a more stable, regional conference. Seattle would jump at a WCC invite, as would CBU and GCU. Utah Valley would accept a Big Sky. UTRGV a Southland invite. While, would take those conferences losing a member and/or changing their by-laws, it can happen.

I wonder what the American conference does next, and if the domino effect of that move will effect the WAC? Say for example, the American takes Charlotte from C-USA. C-USA takes Texas St. from the Sun Belt. What does the Sun Belt do? What if UTEP wants to leaves C-USA and goes to a conference that is more geographically friendly like the Mt. West? Yes, they are in Texas, but West Texas, and in the only C-USA school in the Mountain Time Zone. Texas St. would create four Texas schools-all within maybe 250 miles radius of each other. Houston to El Paso is about 700.

Also, is Bakersfield getting a waiver in regards to that CA law that restricts travel to Texas?

Utah Valley would love to be in the Big Sky, but Dixie State would be considered before them if the Big Sky suddenly needed members.

DSU has football and could be slotted right in. UVU was looking to add football to make themselves attractive to an auto-qualifying conference (i.e. not the Great West) but when they got into the WAC and all of those plans got put on hold. UVU could very well be one of the last schools in the WAC if there was a mass exodus.
07-12-2019 02:30 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #78
RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Most of the plausible non-football schools have said no. The loss of UMKC hurts a lot. It's time to sit some D2 fb schools down and see if they can get 5 to come up as a package deal to establish FCS WAC fb.

End the Chi St contact once they've all transitioned. You've got a 12 team conference.
07-12-2019 06:17 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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RE: DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Maybe this isn't the right page, but why did UTPA- the forerunner to UTRGV- get kicked out of the Sun Belt? I remember their basketball team was hit with sanctions when Delray Brooks was their coach. There isn't much online about the reasons why UTPA was kicked out of the Sun Belt.
07-12-2019 06:31 PM
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Johnny Crunch Offline
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DII Schools in the potential WAC footprint without Football
Found this on a unt board:

That was later followed by UTPA being booted (excuse me voluntarily withdrawing once they saw what the vote was) after their second round of major NCAA violations made them death eligible (they even asked for it so they could get out of a contract with the coach who they suspected of being behind the violations but they couldn't prove it).
07-12-2019 07:48 PM
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