(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-03-2017 06:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The gun I purchased came with a gun locker and a trigger lock. It is under the seat of my car. The car is my weekend car and it stays locked in my garage.

So in order to get to the gun, you first have to break into my house, then break into my car, then break into the lock box, then break the trigger lock.

I think that plenty responsible.

Read the bolded in his comment.

Obviously he agrees, despite the clear tone of your response which implies that he's arguing with you. This was the first you mentioned that i see of it being anything but simply lying under your seat.

What I find funny is that someone who generally leans left so he should at least somewhat understand the lefts position on this issue states a problem and then seems bothered by the fact that the right, not the left, seems concerned about proper handling of his weapon... something the left very often implies is completely void on the right of the issue.

The left on the issue (you are not left on the issue) is obviously wrong about how 'the right' (at least on this forum) thinks about guns and gun safety... and yet still, you seem to be accustomed to expect a fight, even when you agree.

It seems you agree that if you don't secure your gun in your car that you aren't being a responsible gun owner.

I have always been pro second amendment and I am a responsible gun owner.

Kind of ***** up all you leftist theory doesn't it?

Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Read the bolded in his comment.

Obviously he agrees, despite the clear tone of your response which implies that he's arguing with you. This was the first you mentioned that i see of it being anything but simply lying under your seat.

What I find funny is that someone who generally leans left so he should at least somewhat understand the lefts position on this issue states a problem and then seems bothered by the fact that the right, not the left, seems concerned about proper handling of his weapon... something the left very often implies is completely void on the right of the issue.

The left on the issue (you are not left on the issue) is obviously wrong about how 'the right' (at least on this forum) thinks about guns and gun safety... and yet still, you seem to be accustomed to expect a fight, even when you agree.

It seems you agree that if you don't secure your gun in your car that you aren't being a responsible gun owner.

I have always been pro second amendment and I am a responsible gun owner.

Kind of ***** up all you leftist theory doesn't it?

Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

(12-05-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I have always been pro second amendment and I am a responsible gun owner.

Kind of ***** up all you leftist theory doesn't it?

Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

I was intrigued by the package aspect, so I looked it up. The whole package including the gun is $215. Holy cow, does the gun actually shoot?

(12-05-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I have always been pro second amendment and I am a responsible gun owner.

Kind of ***** up all you leftist theory doesn't it?

Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

Practice clearing jams and/or throwing bullets.

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

1) I never claimed to be a gun expert

2) Just because the gun comes with such things doesn't mean you use them

3) No, I don't read everything you write, but i see nothing about you using a trigger lock or box... there was even conversation about using boxes and you didn't say anything.

4) had you said in this thread... I keep the gun locked in a gun box in my car, Kaps comment would be ignoring that you said that and you would be able to rightly call him out on that, or at least say... I agree, which is why i told you in post #27 that I use a gun box.

5) I think precisely what I'm trying to demonstrate is that much of the 'out for me' comes from assuming what people write and not reading what they write. While Kap could have been less fervent about the fact that people who leave guns in cars and don't have them in boxes are irresponsible, if I cared to, I think I could find you and many other leftists making similarly broad statements. I think you'd agree 100% that if you don't secure your gun, you are an irresponsible gun owner. How are you reading an 'attack' into that?

6) You also didn't say your 'weekend car' that I see until just now, meaning that the reasonable interpretation is that its your daily driver and thus not in your garage all the time. Further, the 'its in my garage and the only way there is through the house' is a feature of your house that most wouldn't know. I don't know about you, but most people wouldn't lock their cars in a locked garage, even though locked garages can be defeated by simple code scrambling remotes.... and even if your car WERE locked, someone with a garage remote scrambler would surely be able to close the door and then break your glass... especially if it is a detached garage. I feel very confident that if a gun were taken from a car parked in a locked garage, 'the left' on the issue (again, maybe not you) would argue that the person was irresponsible with his gun

in other words, we would have to know an awful lot about you NONE of which was revealed until after Kap said what he said in order to know that you were a responsible gun owner.

and Kap very clearly gave you an out you could have easily walked through when he said... 'unless you do this....' as opposed to just assuming that you didn't do it.

What you wrote made me, and thus I'm sure lots of people think that you kept your gun unsecured under your seat in your daily driver. With that as a backdrop, had Kap been 'out for you', he wouldn't have given you such an easy out.

(12-05-2017 04:19 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

Practice clearing jams and/or throwing bullets.

No kidding, if you want to go cheap, get a Glock. You will be getting a much better gun that you can depend on.

(11-29-2017 03:06 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Heck, I'll be honest, other than the cop complaining about being filmed as if he was afraid of something, I don't see anything anybody did that was wrong. (maybe you could argue why the second cop needed a heavier rifle)

I dont quite understand the absolute necessity of asking everyone in the group for IDs.

What the people not carrying firearms should have said to the police was "Am I free to go or am I being detained?" If the answer is "you are being detained" you automatically have a whole buttload of issues come into play in your favor.

I dont quite see the 'reasonable suspicion' standard being met for, for example, the guy who walked to them on the outside and was with their group.

(12-05-2017 04:25 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 04:19 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

Practice clearing jams and/or throwing bullets.

No kidding, if you want to go cheap, get a Glock. You will be getting a much better gun that you can depend on.

This is just him trolling. He probably read a Huffpe expose on cheap handguns.

Quote:1) I never claimed to be a gun expert

No not you personally but whenever I opine on the gun debate, everyone jumps all over me as if everyone who believes in the second amendment automatically knows everything there is to know about guns and liberals don't.

Quote:2) Just because the gun comes with such things doesn't mean you use them

That is true and I didn't initially state that I was using these specific methods to lock up my weapon. I simply said that it was locked up in my car. To which Kaplony responded what was the point of having it. He knew I had it locked up so why later question whether or not I had it secured if not just to attempt to give me more grief about it.

Quote:3) No, I don't read everything you write, but i see nothing about you using a trigger lock or box... there was even conversation about using boxes and you didn't say anything.

Of course you don't read everything I post. I also don't post everything I do so just because I never mentioned it doesn't mean I don't mention it.

Quote:4) had you said in this thread... I keep the gun locked in a gun box in my car, Kaps comment would be ignoring that you said that and you would be able to rightly call him out on that, or at least say... I agree, which is why i told you in post #27 that I use a gun box.

Once again. I have said on more than one occasion that I have it locked up in my car.

Quote:5) I think precisely what I'm trying to demonstrate is that much of the 'out for me' comes from assuming what people write and not reading what they write. While Kap could have been less fervent about the fact that people who leave guns in cars and don't have them in boxes are irresponsible, if I cared to, I think I could find you and many other leftists making similarly broad statements. I think you'd agree 100% that if you don't secure your gun, you are an irresponsible gun owner. How are you reading an 'attack' into that?

Maybe it wasn't an attack on my. I've grown accustomed however to Kaplony and others personally attacking me without consequence while all the while being warned constantly to stop trolling. This whole discussion about guns has been an attempt to show people like him that I am not so different than they are but that hasn't brought us any more together since he questions me when I lock my gun and when I don't lock it. You can't win with some people.

Quote:6) You also didn't say your 'weekend car' that I see until just now, meaning that the reasonable interpretation is that its your daily driver and thus not in your garage all the time. Further, the 'its in my garage and the only way there is through the house' is a feature of your house that most wouldn't know. I don't know about you, but most people wouldn't lock their cars in a locked garage, even though locked garages can be defeated by simple code scrambling remotes.... and even if your car WERE locked, someone with a garage remote scrambler would surely be able to close the door and then break your glass... especially if it is a detached garage. I feel very confident that if a gun were taken from a car parked in a locked garage, 'the left' on the issue (again, maybe not you) would argue that the person was irresponsible with his gun

I may not have said my weekend car on every post but I originally said the reason why I purchased a gun in the first place was because I go off roading on the weekends and wanted protection in the event that I got stuck out in the desert overnight. As for the amount of security on my gun. I assure you that it's more to secure the gun from my daughters and less from it getting stolen. Obviously, if someone wants my gun, they are going to get to it and no amount of security is going to stop that. The main reason I have it locked up is to discourage my girls from wanting to play with it or show it to their boyfriend. etc. etc.

Quote:in other words, we would have to know an awful lot about you NONE of which was revealed until after Kap said what he said in order to know that you were a responsible gun owner.

and Kap very clearly gave you an out you could have easily walked through when he said... 'unless you do this....' as opposed to just assuming that you didn't do it.

What you wrote made me, and thus I'm sure lots of people think that you kept your gun unsecured under your seat in your daily driver. With that as a backdrop, had Kap been 'out for you', he wouldn't have given you such an easy out.

My original response to Kaplony was simply that I do have it secured. He already knew that. I made it a point to explain exactly how I have it secured because he questioned how I had it secured after knowing full well that I had it locked up in my weekender in the garage.

I understand that you are assuming this or that. What you don't know is how Kaplony attacks me on a regular basis again without consequence. You may think he doesn't know that much about me but I assure you he does.

I wouldn't be surprised if he saves or writes down everything that I ever say on this forum because he constantly throws it in my face and even brings it up verbatim.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to how many people say things personally about me and what they know about me.

They constantly attack the fact that I am a teacher. That I teach history, That I practice martial arts. All of this because I support progressive politics.

(12-05-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I have always been pro second amendment and I am a responsible gun owner.

Kind of ***** up all you leftist theory doesn't it?

Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

Well technically I am considering I have numerous certifications from firearms courses.

But as I stated when I said that a Hi Point isn't a good entry level gun because of how it operates I also said I wouldn't buy one brand new so I have no need to know what kind of packages they offer.

Fit...

I don't know if these things are now known because they know you outside this realm, or because of things you have said. I certainly now know them because of what you said...

and you may well be 100% correct about what you say....

What I'm saying is that you locking up your gun in your car doesn't read like it's locked in a box in your car. It read to me like it's in the car and the car is locked.... which is why I initially started responding.

and as I said, while he perhaps didn't intend it this way, his comment that 'if its not in a box, you're a bad owner' certainly seems that he didn't read your comments that way either and that you could have been in clear agreement for what may have been a rare moment.

I'm not chastising you, nor am i taking his side. I'm merely suggesting that 'impressions' of people can't change if we never let them. While there also may be dozens of times when Kap (or me or someone else) could have done the same thing to you, and if I see it, I'll try and mention it... I only saw it here because i read it the same way as he, and had the same gut reaction.

I took Kaps posts the way I'm describing, and if you had, you guys would be in strong agreement here. Considering your past, I'd call that a win. Instead, it seems that you guys are so used to arguing that you even argue about agreeing.

Thanks for the responses though... and I mean that.

(12-05-2017 04:08 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

I was intrigued by the package aspect, so I looked it up. The whole package including the gun is $215. Holy cow, does the gun actually shoot?

Yes. I have one that I bought off a friend for less than $100 because he was tired of people talking trash towards him when he was at the range. I bought it as a "tackle box" or "swamp" gun.....something I can carry that I don't really care if it gets messed up. It's clunky, awkward, the trigger isn't crisp, and it's as heavy as a boat anchor but so far I haven't had any trouble with mine. Took me forever to get used to shooting it and be accurate but it goes off every time I pull the trigger and hits what I'm aiming at. I even killed a hog with mine while duck hunting a few years back.

It is what it is....a cheap gun, but it shouldn't be considered an entry level weapon for anyone just starting out because it's going to teach you some very bad habits.

And I still wouldn't buy a brand new one at MSRP when you can get a used one far cheaper.

(12-05-2017 04:08 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 03:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:56 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:20 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 02:16 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Jesus, do you even read what anyone writes before you respond?

Where did I say you were left on the issue? I didn't. In fact, I specifically said you weren't. See the bold

You're actually proving my theory about the left because now twice, you... like the left on this issue... ignore the reality of 'what the right actually says' and instead argues with their straw man of 'what the right thinks' which is demonstrably NOT what we think.

Perhaps you weren't around when I specifically told everyone what gun I was going to buy. Any gun expert would know that the gun I planned to purchase comes with the lock box and trigger lock that I mentioned.

I see what you are trying to do here but you are wrong. Everyone knows that Kaplony has it in for me and is simply looking for any way to attack me personally.

That should have been clear when he first attacked me for having the gun locked up and then attacked me for not having it locked up.

The last thing you said about a gun was that you were looking at a Hi-Point. You said nothing about a gun locker or trigger locks.

The Hi POint 9 mm comes in a "home defense" package that comes with a gun storage locker and a trigger lock.

Sorry. I thought you were like every other person in this forum..........

A certified gun expert.

I was intrigued by the package aspect, so I looked it up. The whole package including the gun is $215. Holy cow, does the gun actually shoot?

I know what you are thinking. I was thinking the same thing. Then I went and saw many torture tests on this gun.

One guy threw it in the water, ran over it, shot at it, did a lot of other crazy stuff to it and it still fired.

HiPoint actually has a lifetime warranty on it as well.

Last weekend I shot nearly 100 rounds without a jam.