(10-11-2016 04:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Trying to downplay what Columbus did is akin to trying to downplay what Hitler did. Two terrible historical figures

Lincoln conscripted poor people to die in a war, especially poor Irish dam near off of the boat, and let wealthy protestants buy their way out of service. Most historical people did some good and some bad. Founding Fathers of USA some owned slaves, it was normal.

(10-11-2016 08:02 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:29 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:06 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  A little historical fact, Christopher Columbus never set foot in the mainland, just in the islands of the Caribbean.


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How did he personally communicate smallpox and kill all those natives then?

That's a pretty good question and I would love to know the answer, so John, can you tell us?


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nothing from John... typical

(10-11-2016 08:42 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 04:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Trying to downplay what Columbus did is akin to trying to downplay what Hitler did. Two terrible historical figures

Lincoln conscripted poor people to die in a war, especially poor Irish dam near off of the boat, and let wealthy protestants buy their way out of service. Most historical people did some good and some bad. Founding Fathers of USA some owned slaves, it was normal.

1st off the south conscripted first and did so at a significantly higher rate than the north. on top of that it was the south that pillaged and plundered their own people to meet war production needs. secondly the Irish were granted citizenship as soon as they came off the boat and thus eligible for military service. lastly the irish enlistment rate was something like 150K out of 3 million union soldiers.

so you are resorting to a dumb redneck talking point that is a complete butchering of history.

columbus doesn't just represent all the downsides of european american settlement after he arrived, he played a direct hand in it. he was the first person to transport slaves across the atlantic and it was he who decided to enslave the local population.

(10-11-2016 08:44 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:02 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:29 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:06 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  A little historical fact, Christopher Columbus never set foot in the mainland, just in the islands of the Caribbean.


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How did he personally communicate smallpox and kill all those natives then?

That's a pretty good question and I would love to know the answer, so John, can you tell us?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nothing from John... typical

you do realize people can't be online 24/7 right? funny I recall awhile back you having this very conversation but with our roles flipped.

(10-11-2016 07:29 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:06 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  A little historical fact, Christopher Columbus never set foot in the mainland, just in the islands of the Caribbean.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did he personally communicate smallpox and kill all those natives then?

while it is true that most died from the pandemic. the fact remains that of the surviving natives had an even higher mortality rate due to the brutal work conditions the europeans set up for them.

it is also true that europeans understood the smallpox advantage. I don't understand how one could not come across the smallpox blanket reference in your lifetime.

they also used that event to claim god supported what they were doing.

(10-11-2016 05:22 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 04:10 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Can you go a day without acting stupid or at the very least stop butchering history. The brutality of Columbus and his treatment of native Americans is beyond doubt. His actions triggered the destruction of the Native American population and kick started the Atlantic slave trade.

Are you familiar with the logical fallacy of "false cause?"

Why is the New World the only example of a greater civilization conquering a lesser civilization that makes liberals so ass-chapped? You realize that this same thing has happened in history hundreds of times, right? Greater, stronger, smarter, more advanced civilizations tend to conquer and assimilate lesser, weaker, dumber, less advanced civilizations. I know there are truths that make your jimmies rustle, but they're truths nonetheless.

this is literally 18th century logic that was used to justify slavery

(10-11-2016 09:01 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 08:42 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 04:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Trying to downplay what Columbus did is akin to trying to downplay what Hitler did. Two terrible historical figures

Lincoln conscripted poor people to die in a war, especially poor Irish dam near off of the boat, and let wealthy protestants buy their way out of service. Most historical people did some good and some bad. Founding Fathers of USA some owned slaves, it was normal.

1st off the south conscripted first and did so at a significantly higher rate than the north. on top of that it was the south that pillaged and plundered their own people to meet war production needs. secondly the Irish were granted citizenship as soon as they came off the boat and thus eligible for military service. lastly the irish enlistment rate was something like 150K out of 3 million union soldiers.

so you are resorting to a dumb redneck talking point that is a complete butchering of history.

columbus doesn't just represent all the downsides of european american settlement after he arrived, he played a direct hand in it. he was the first person to transport slaves across the atlantic and it was he who decided to enslave the local population.

There you go again. Angry far left radical zealot.

sorry for telling you like it is. but these are talking points that originated by dumb rednecks waving the confederate flag who try to rewrite history to make the CSA seem morally righteous

notice how you didn't try to contradict any of the facts I presented?

(10-11-2016 09:09 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 05:22 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 04:10 AM)john01992 Wrote:  Can you go a day without acting stupid or at the very least stop butchering history. The brutality of Columbus and his treatment of native Americans is beyond doubt. His actions triggered the destruction of the Native American population and kick started the Atlantic slave trade.

Are you familiar with the logical fallacy of "false cause?"

Why is the New World the only example of a greater civilization conquering a lesser civilization that makes liberals so ass-chapped? You realize that this same thing has happened in history hundreds of times, right? Greater, stronger, smarter, more advanced civilizations tend to conquer and assimilate lesser, weaker, dumber, less advanced civilizations. I know there are truths that make your jimmies rustle, but they're truths nonetheless.

this is literally 18th century logic that was used to justify slavery

Notice how you can't argue against it? Because it's historical fact. Greater civilizations conquer lesser civilizations. Been happening for thousands of years. It may hurt your feelings, but......that doesn't matter.

FWIW, there was the wheel in both north and south America pre-Columbus but it was only used for toys, games and other entertainment. The reason the wheel was not used in greater capacity was that there are no large beasts of burden in the Americas to haul carts or plow fields.

It is vexing though, why didn't south Americans use llamas and alpaca to haul small carts? No one really knows but it is thought that the populations of working men and women was so large that physical labor was simply easier and kept the population employed.

(10-11-2016 09:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:29 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:06 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  A little historical fact, Christopher Columbus never set foot in the mainland, just in the islands of the Caribbean.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did he personally communicate smallpox and kill all those natives then?

while it is true that most died from the pandemic. the fact remains that of the surviving natives had an even higher mortality rate due to the brutal work conditions the europeans set up for them.

it is also true that europeans understood the smallpox advantage. I don't understand how one could not come across the smallpox blanket reference in your lifetime.

they also used that event to claim god supported what they were doing.

So......you think that line of reasoning supports your theory that Christopher Columbus (by discovering the Americas in the name of people who had written language) killed all the natives.

(10-11-2016 09:36 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  FWIW, there was the wheel in both north and south America pre-Columbus but it was only used for toys, games and other entertainment. The reason the wheel was not used in greater capacity was that there are no large beasts of burden in the Americas to haul carts or plow fields.

The recreational little "wheels" your referencing is ONE group out of all the "civilizations" in the Americas, and like you said it was never used for any sort of technological advancement whatsoever.

To claim that the wheel couldn't ease the burden of farming and/or a host of other general labor tasks is just silly, especially to the native tribes of North America. But then again, despite being there for thousands of years, they never domesticated a single animal either.

(10-11-2016 09:28 AM)john01992 Wrote:  notice how you didn't try to contradict any of the facts I presented?

Notice how you ignored what Lincoln did? Stay angry zero it makes me happy.

(10-11-2016 09:44 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  To claim that the wheel couldn't ease the burden of farming and/or a host of other general labor tasks is just silly, especially to the native tribes of North America.

I didn't remotely claim that. I specifically said that they had enough people to where there was little need to prioritize utilizing a wheel for farming or general labor.

I'm just putting the facts out there. I do find it strange that there was so little industrial use of the wheel.

(10-11-2016 09:44 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  But then again, despite being there for thousands of years, they never domesticated a single animal either.

Llamas, alpacas, guinea pigs, dogs, some ducks types, and turkey were domesticated within pre-Columbian Americas.

(10-10-2016 11:10 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-10-2016 10:58 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Here in Minneapolis, we are officially celebrating Indigenous Peoples Day.

Happy IPD to everyone! Please sit back and reflect how awful you are as a white person born in the later part of the 20th century and all the terrible things you did to the local Indians.

Let me guess, liberal city council?

He's writing from the People's Republic of Minnesota. Duh

(10-11-2016 09:37 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:29 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:06 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  A little historical fact, Christopher Columbus never set foot in the mainland, just in the islands of the Caribbean.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did he personally communicate smallpox and kill all those natives then?

while it is true that most died from the pandemic. the fact remains that of the surviving natives had an even higher mortality rate due to the brutal work conditions the europeans set up for them.

it is also true that europeans understood the smallpox advantage. I don't understand how one could not come across the smallpox blanket reference in your lifetime.

they also used that event to claim god supported what they were doing.

So......you think that line of reasoning supports your theory that Christopher Columbus (by discovering the Americas in the name of people who had written language) killed all the natives.

columbus acting like a tyrant, enslaving the local population, and sending the first slaves across the atlantic is not a theory but historical fact. the dude cut off the hands of native americans because they didn't meet their work quotas FFS.

(10-11-2016 09:49 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:28 AM)john01992 Wrote:  notice how you didn't try to contradict any of the facts I presented?

Notice how you ignored what Lincoln did? Stay angry zero it makes me happy.

I didn't ignore. I just simply pointed out that your interpretation is nothing but whitewashed bull**** perpetrated by southern hicks.

(10-11-2016 09:36 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  FWIW, there was the wheel in both north and south America pre-Columbus but it was only used for toys, games and other entertainment. The reason the wheel was not used in greater capacity was that there are no large beasts of burden in the Americas to haul carts or plow fields.

It is vexing though, why didn't south Americans use llamas and alpaca to haul small carts? No one really knows but it is thought that the populations of working men and women was so large that physical labor was simply easier and kept the population employed.

even today there are still some groups of people that work the land without animals.

at the end of the day the growth of a certain culture/ethnic group is dependent largely on factors outside their control. the availability of animals for domestication, the food sources available, geography and access to trade, and quite frankly...luck

(10-11-2016 10:52 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:37 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 09:07 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:29 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(10-11-2016 07:06 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  A little historical fact, Christopher Columbus never set foot in the mainland, just in the islands of the Caribbean.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did he personally communicate smallpox and kill all those natives then?

while it is true that most died from the pandemic. the fact remains that of the surviving natives had an even higher mortality rate due to the brutal work conditions the europeans set up for them.

it is also true that europeans understood the smallpox advantage. I don't understand how one could not come across the smallpox blanket reference in your lifetime.

they also used that event to claim god supported what they were doing.

So......you think that line of reasoning supports your theory that Christopher Columbus (by discovering the Americas in the name of people who had written language) killed all the natives.

columbus acting like a tyrant, enslaving the local population, and sending the first slaves across the atlantic is not a theory but historical fact. the dude cut off the hands of native americans because they didn't meet their work quotas FFS.

source?