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Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #1
Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
Big shout out to CC. Memorial in Santo Domingo

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10-10-2016 10:50 AM
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tigertom Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
Does this mean the Federal Employees have another holiday. Post Office and Banks closed etc. ?
10-10-2016 10:55 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
Here in Minneapolis, we are officially celebrating Indigenous Peoples Day.

Happy IPD to everyone! Please sit back and reflect how awful you are as a white person born in the later part of the 20th century and all the terrible things you did to the local Indians.
10-10-2016 10:58 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
We celebrate today due to an Italian explorer that fast-talked some Spanish Monarchs into funding a pleasure cruise. He proceeds to get lost and “discovered” a new world that was only inhabited by several thousand people that would eventually be displaced or killed to pave the way for Trump/Hillary and McDonalds.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 11:09 AM by VA49er.)
10-10-2016 11:09 AM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-10-2016 10:58 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Here in Minneapolis, we are officially celebrating Indigenous Peoples Day.

Happy IPD to everyone! Please sit back and reflect how awful you are as a white person born in the later part of the 20th century and all the terrible things you did to the local Indians.

Let me guess, liberal city council?
10-10-2016 11:10 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-10-2016 11:10 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 10:58 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Here in Minneapolis, we are officially celebrating Indigenous Peoples Day.

Happy IPD to everyone! Please sit back and reflect how awful you are as a white person born in the later part of the 20th century and all the terrible things you did to the local Indians.

Let me guess, liberal city council?

Oh my, yes.
10-10-2016 11:12 AM
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Stick4489 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-10-2016 11:09 AM)VA49er Wrote:  We celebrate today due to an Italian explorer that fast-talked some Spanish Monarchs into funding a pleasure cruise. He proceeds to get lost and “discovered” a new world that was only inhabited by several thousand people that would eventually be displaced or killed to pave the way for Trump/Hillary and McDonalds.

Well, give your **** back then.
10-10-2016 11:23 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
Today we celebrate a man for discovering a land that he was not the first to discover, a land that was named after someone else, and a person who until his dying day refused to admit this land wasn't India.
(This post was last modified: 10-10-2016 11:31 AM by john01992.)
10-10-2016 11:29 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-10-2016 11:23 AM)Stick4489 Wrote:  
(10-10-2016 11:09 AM)VA49er Wrote:  We celebrate today due to an Italian explorer that fast-talked some Spanish Monarchs into funding a pleasure cruise. He proceeds to get lost and “discovered” a new world that was only inhabited by several thousand people that would eventually be displaced or killed to pave the way for Trump/Hillary and McDonalds.

Well, give your **** back then.

lol, I guess the sarcasm was too subtle. My apologies. 04-cheers
10-10-2016 11:35 AM
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Niner National Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
meh, Columbus Day is a worthless holiday. Nobody celebrates it. It's just an excuse for bank and government workers to get a day off. Normal working people don't get Columbus Day off.
10-10-2016 11:56 AM
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Pyrizzo Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-10-2016 11:56 AM)Niner National Wrote:  meh, Columbus Day is a worthless holiday. Nobody celebrates it. It's just an excuse for bank and government workers to get a day off. Normal working people don't get Columbus Day off.

Correct, it really is a useless holiday.
10-10-2016 12:14 PM
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QuestionSocratic Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
We could rename it National Small Pox Awareness Day and everyone would wear

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10-10-2016 01:52 PM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
One of his primary motivations was to evangelize the savages who were still performing human sacrifices and to introduce them to written language and the wheel. Often he is misunderstood.

In recent decades, however, Columbus has become a figure of controversy, leaving conflicting opinions about his legacy. Carol Delaney, a cultural anthropologist and long-time professor at Stanford University, had little knowledge or interest in Columbus — that is, until she was teaching a course called “Millennial Fever” at Stanford in 1999 and came across a reference to the explorer’s apocalyptic beliefs. Delaney was intrigued and set out to research Columbus at Brown University in the summer of 2003. Two years later, she retired from Stanford to devote herself to research, which launched a remarkable journey in the footsteps of the explorer. Columbia spoke to Delaney about the fruits of her research, published in her book titled Columbus and the Quest for Jerusalem (Free Press, 2011).

Columbia: In addition to funding the crusade, did Columbus intend to evangelize the New World?
Carol Delaney: He was very much interested in evangelizing. He wrote against the idea that the natives could just be baptized and automatically become Christian. Rather, they really needed to be instructed about the Christian faith before being converted. He wrote to the pope requesting that good priests be sent to provide this instruction and even left money in his will for it. Believing he was traveling to Asia, Columbus particularly wanted to convince the Grand Khan of China, who had already expressed interest in Christianity, to convert. He thought that the Grand Khan could help with the crusade to take Jerusalem by marching from the east, while the Europeans marched from the west — an interesting idea.

Columbia: Why don’t more people recognize and accept your claims about Columbus’ intentions?
Carol Delaney: Scholars have written articles about Columbus’ religious motivations, but they were published in very arcane journals. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, historians wrote about Columbus as the first modern man, who used science and reason as an explorer and discoverer. But I don’t think that was his motivation. He was a medieval man in a very religious context. He was very close to the Franciscans, who were involved in proselytizing before the end of the world.

Columbia: The popular view today is that Columbus is responsible for countless atrocities against the native peoples. In your opinion, is this a fair assessment?
Carol Delaney: No, not at all. The late 20th century brought a lot of critique about him from the perspective of the natives, and Columbus has become a symbol for everything that went wrong. But the more I read of his own writings and that of his contemporaries, my understanding of him totally changed. His relations with the natives tended to be benign. He liked the natives and found them to be very intelligent. He also described them as “natural Christians” because they had no other “sect,” or false faith, and believed that they could easily become Christians if they had instruction. Columbus strictly told the crew not to do things like marauder or rape, and instead to treat the native people with respect. There are many examples in his writings where he gave instructions to this effect. Most of the time when injustices occurred, Columbus wasn’t even there. There were terrible diseases that got communicated to the natives, but he can’t be blamed for that. A lot of the crewmembers didn’t like all of the restrictions and rebelled. In his writings, Columbus notes that the crew assumed that they could have slaves, that they could pick gold off of the trees, and that they didn’t have to work

Columbia: What was Columbus’ view toward slavery?
Carol Delaney: As far as I can tell, Columbus never had any slaves, nor did he intend to get slaves when he went across the ocean. There was no possibility of enslaving the Grand Khan and his people. And [Columbus] believed the natives would become subjects of the Spanish sovereigns. When they later met a different group of natives, whom they believed to be cannibals, Columbus’ brother sent some of these people back to Europe after their second voyage. It was considered morally acceptable at that time to enslave people who acted against their nature, with the hope that they would become good Christians. Slavery was common, even among people in the Caribbean. People ignore that fact and seem to think that Columbus instituted slavery. Meanwhile, Bartolomé de Las Casas, an admirer of Columbus, is remembered for writing in defense of the Indians. But unlike Columbus, Las Casas owned slaves and operated encomiendas in the beginning. He didn’t have a change of heart until long after Columbus’ death, and even as late as the mid-16th century, he proposed slavery of African blacks as a substitute for the Indians.


Columbia: In your research, what did you find most significant about Columbus’ own writings?
Carol Delaney: I read all of Columbus’ writings that are extant. Columbus’ original diary does not exist. Las Casas and Columbus’ son, Ferdinand, each had a copy, and a lot of the story coincides in their redactions. Many of Columbus’ writings express respect for the natives and concern about his crew. Before I began my research, I didn’t know Columbus had written anything. I liked the tone of his letters, and I enjoyed reading them. His devotion to his sons comes across, and he took care of the women in his life, which really helped change my opinion of him.


Columbia: In addition to his faith, what were some of Columbus’ most notable personal qualities, and what role did they play in his quest?
Carol Delaney: I think he was very patient. He waited more than 10 years before his first voyage came about. He petitioned the Portuguese first, then the Spanish. The council rejected his proposal three times, yet he continued to persist. He really believed he could do it. He showed tremendous courage in going across the ocean in tiny wooden ships, with basically a compass to guide his way. Also, when the crew was grounded on Jamaica during the fourth voyage, Columbus kept trying to negotiate with the rebels and expressed forgiveness.


Columbia: To what extent can Columbus’ exploration be considered a failure or a success?
Carol Delaney: I think he went to the grave thinking that he had not accomplished what he wanted to do. He was angry with King Ferdinand for not pursuing the crusade, and he recognized that terrible crimes had been committed. From this point of view, he felt the quest was a failure. In reality, it was a major accomplishment. Columbus went across the ocean four times in small wooden ships, without the use of modern instruments. In the process, he discovered the New World, even though he thought that he had found only the periphery of Asia.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2016 12:15 AM by shiftyeagle.)
10-11-2016 12:14 AM
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john01992 Offline
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RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
That person is by no means a historian.
10-11-2016 01:24 AM
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HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Offline
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RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
So how much guilt did everyone feel today?
10-11-2016 01:50 AM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-11-2016 01:24 AM)john01992 Wrote:  That person is by no means a historian.

Carol Delaney, a cultural anthropologist and long-time professor at Stanford University, had little knowledge or interest in Columbus — that is, until she was teaching a course called “Millennial Fever” at Stanford in 1999 and came across a reference to the explorer’s apocalyptic beliefs. Delaney was intrigued and set out to research Columbus at Brown University in the summer of 2003. Two years later, she retired from Stanford to devote herself to research, which launched a remarkable journey in the footsteps of the explorer. Columbia spoke to Delaney about the fruits of her research, published in her book titled Columbus and the Quest for Jerusalem (Free Press, 2011).


Yeah, okay buddy.
10-11-2016 02:11 AM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-11-2016 01:50 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  So how much guilt did everyone feel today?

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10-11-2016 02:15 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
She literally does not have a degree in history (but does have a degree in theology apparently) and nearly everyone of the claims made in that OP break with historical consensus at best, at worst the worst possible white washing of history imaginable on par with trying to paint Hitler as a humanitarian.

Hell after a basic google search you can find a WSJ book review about how she is one of the examples used by an expert on Columbus of nonhistorians misrepresenting Columbus.
10-11-2016 02:52 AM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
(10-11-2016 02:52 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the worst possible white washing of history imaginable on par with trying to paint Hitler as a humanitarian.

Godwin's Law AGAIN?

Can you people have any type of discourse about anything without using ignorant and stupid comparisons about Hitler and the Nazis.......it's like arguing with children. Autistic children.
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2016 03:42 AM by shiftyeagle.)
10-11-2016 03:41 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Happy Columbus Day!!!!!
Can you go a day without acting stupid or at the very least stop butchering history. The brutality of Columbus and his treatment of native Americans is beyond doubt. His actions triggered the destruction of the Native American population and kick started the Atlantic slave trade. Those are two of the worst events in human history so of course Hitler is comparable.

You are being a clown if you do not believe you are white washing history. The brutality of Columbus is well documented and he was even removed from power because of it.
10-11-2016 04:10 AM
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