(09-12-2016 08:35 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 08:21 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The NCAA has a mission of ensuring that NCAA athletics are open to all without discrimination. They definately have as much interest in preserving access to events by GLBT persons as they did for other groups. This is the right decision IMHO.

And they already are. Every sporting venue I've ever seen or been to -- right down to tiny minor league stadiums -- has a men's, women's, and anything restroom. And you assume the law is actually being followed. You know it's illegal to smoke pot in public in Seattle. Now go walk around Seattle. It's illegal to do faster than than 70 on the Interstate. Now go stand near the interstate with a radar gun. And actually KNOWING transsexuals in NC, I can tell you without reservation that they went to the bathroom of their current gender before this bill passed ... and they keep going to that very same bathroom afterwards. One told me should proudly considered herself the Rosa Parks of chics with d***s.

(09-12-2016 08:21 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  What about Gay people? Should they just face humiliation to attend NCAA events in NC? Its easy for a straight cisgendered male to tell us what second class citizenship is 'good enough' for us. Can I go on AirBNB in NC and get a room in Charlotte to see the Belk Bowl? Who knows, and if I'm denied I have zero recource. I guess I just need to spend 400 bucks to stay at the Marriott while the straight guy can spend 40 for the AirBnB.

And OMG, telling Trans persons to 'just use the 'anything' (I'll read that as 'freak') restroom is humiliating. And will result in massive waits for them (as the single occupancy restrooms are usually oversubscribed).

First and foremost ... please stop polluting the English language with the use of cisgendered. I know this will be hard for a liberal but ... stop destroying the language to further your agenda of creating an emotionless rubber room where no one -- no matter how f'n retarded they are -- feels offended.

Secondly ... how did gays suddenly get looped into this? Is there some new fad for gay guys to use the women's restroom I don't know about? I'm sure the women would love the interior decorating advice and relationship chit chat ... but I don't think that's a thing.

AirBNB is a business transaction between you and a private property owner. You are at their total mercy in terms of what they deem acceptable as it is THEIR property. You have no right to dictate what terms you get to use someone else's property for. They can reject you just because they hate the car you drove up in. And that's perfectly valid. Their property, their rules. Don't like it? Leave a negative review. Drum up negative PR. If everybody agrees with you, nobody will give business to the AirBNB in question and they'll be out of all that money they could have otherwise had.

Uh, Cisgendered is a real word. Its easier than 'non-Trans'. And using 'normal' as the opposite of Trans is hateful as it calls Trans persons 'abnormal'. Why does that word bother you? Because of who started using it first? What do you call a cisgendered person?

Also note that the fact that the NC legislature made it LEGAL to deny a Gay person a hotel room or a meal is the FIRST reason given by the NCAA for this action. Until such time as it is LEGAL for companies to deny services to anti-gays (it is illegal to do so - religion is protected), your argument simple boils down to "its always acceptable to deny and humiliate LGBT persons, but not for anyone else". And from a practical perspective, adding a negative review after you have to spend 500 bucks more for a last minute hotel room than a straight, cisgendered person has to involves a real and tangible cost to the denied person.

Actually AirBnB cannot deny someone a room for being a Baptist. Its illegal under NC and Federal law. But Gays? They are subject to real discrimination. How about this? When it is legal for anti-Gays (evangelicals) to be discriminated against under NC and Federal law, THEN and only then, would some sort of theoretical discussion regarding the merits of anti-discrimination laws be really relevant.

Funny to see how many white, Christian, straight men -- people who have never been oppressed an iota their entire lives -- howl like whipped dogs at the thought of having "their" country taken away from them.

Slippery slope here. You would get Jerry Sundusky types pretend to be females to go into women's bathrooms and molest little girls. NCAA should take that into considerations as well. Just make a third bathroom for transgenders and be done with it.

Adults are talking.

(09-12-2016 08:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Uh, Cisgendered is a real word. Its easier than 'non-Trans'. And using 'normal' as the opposite of Trans is hateful as it calls Trans persons 'abnormal'. Why does that word bother you? Because of who started using it first?

Gays and the fact that the NC legislature made it LEGAL to deny a Gay person a hotel room or a meal is the FIRST reason given by the NCAA for this action. Until such time as it is LEGAL for companies to deny services to anti-gays (it is illegal to do so - religion is protected), your argument simple boils down to "its always acceptable to deny and humiliate LGBT persons, but not for anyone else". And from a practical perspective, adding a negative review after you have to spend 500 bucks more for a last minute hotel room than a straight, cisgendered person has to involves a real and tangible cost to the denied person.

Actually AirBnB cannot deny someone a room for being a Baptist. Its illegal under NC and Federal law. But Gays? They are subject to real discrimination.

Cisgender is annoying because it is an obfuscation. It's a backward way of saying not a transsexual. It deprives the language of clarity, meaning, efficiency, and understandability.

If you are a private business that isn't beholden to the purse of the state to operate then you should be able to deny business to whoever you want for whatever reason you want. Even if that reason is stupid and morally objectionable. If it's stupid enough and morally objectionable enough, they'll go out of business. Simple as that. You see this self-enforcement of the free market in, for example, restaurants that refuse to service police officers. Notice the police officers don't demand legal action. They don't refuse to respond to calls to the restaurant. They just publicize the incident. And the public leaves in droves. Either the restaurant changes heart or they go out of business. That simple. But all of the things that happen down that storyline are VOLUNTARY transactions. It's a subtle difference, but important since your solution probably comes from the state and thus probably is ultimately enforced at gunpoint. One is a civilized society that admittedly makes a nasty mess or two but quickly cleans up after itself. The other is violently coercive and undermines individuality and diversity of thought.

And in case I wasn't clear, that means yes, I do support removing those laws that prevent discrimination from serving Baptists. You may not agree with me, but I do try quite hard to be intellectually consistent.

The issue isn't about trangenderlism it's about the PC culture and totalitarian control by the state.

(09-12-2016 08:51 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 08:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 08:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sorry swagger ... you may speak on behalf of John Doe Podunk college football/basketball fan, but the people who make the decisions are the university presidents. The world runs through them.

And they are very sympathetic to these things.

University presidents do what their BOT tells them to do or they become former university presidents. They may think the world runs through them but they have a boss to answer to as well.

And even the BOT is subject to rules of inclusion. Can't just be political appointments. Political and racial and gender considerations must be represented.

Only six of the thirteen of Clemson. The other seven spots on our BOT are self-perpetuating and are appointed by only the other self-perpetuating trustees. They only answer to themselves, not the Governor, not the General Assembly, nobody but themselves.

(09-12-2016 09:07 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If you are a private business that isn't beholden to the purse of the state to operate then you should be able to deny business to whoever you want for whatever reason you want. Even if that reason is stupid and morally objectionable. If it's stupid enough and morally objectionable enough, they'll go out of business. Simple as that. You see this self-enforcement of the free market in, for example, restaurants that refuse to service police officers. Notice the police officers don't demand legal action. They don't refuse to respond to calls to the restaurant. They just publicize the incident. And the public leaves in droves. Either the restaurant changes heart or they go out of business. That simple.

I have said the same thing multiple times on this board. Could not agree more with the comment and the logic behind it.

(09-12-2016 09:08 PM)bluesox Wrote:  The issue isn't about trangenderlism it's about the PC culture and totalitarian control by the state.

Ugh.

Obviously, some people can't keep this to athletics. Spin room here we come.

(09-12-2016 08:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Funny to see how many white, Christian, straight men -- people who have never been oppressed an iota their entire lives -- howl like whipped dogs at the thought of having "their" country taken away from them.

You should be ashamed.

Well maybe the ncaa shouldn't have men's and women's teams, just have 1 gender teams and call it a day.

(09-12-2016 09:12 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 09:07 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If you are a private business that isn't beholden to the purse of the state to operate then you should be able to deny business to whoever you want for whatever reason you want. Even if that reason is stupid and morally objectionable. If it's stupid enough and morally objectionable enough, they'll go out of business. Simple as that. You see this self-enforcement of the free market in, for example, restaurants that refuse to service police officers. Notice the police officers don't demand legal action. They don't refuse to respond to calls to the restaurant. They just publicize the incident. And the public leaves in droves. Either the restaurant changes heart or they go out of business. That simple.

I have said the same thing multiple times on this board. Could not agree more with the comment and the logic behind it.

Then once it is LEGAL for Gay persons to fire people/not serve people for going to Jerry Falwell's Church, then and ONLY then can we discuss the merits of this.

And so the Gay person just has to continually pay the price.

Because trust me, there are plenty of anti-gay business people in NC who aren't going out of business. One of them is Art Pope.

(09-12-2016 08:47 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 08:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  When you don't agree with us we will punish you.

It's the Gaystapo way.

Sad but true...

(09-12-2016 08:43 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Just like voter fraud "could" happen, 10th. But it never has and never will.

Super easy solution: make all public bathrooms private with a locking door, and the sign just says "bathroom" with a picture of a toilet on it. Boom, solved. No bickering, no ideology to trip over.

Uh we'll just have to disagree on that. My Gran was a poll worker for decades and she could tell you all about how blatant it is. But when the rules prevent you from stopping or reporting obvious fraud what can you do? That's what we have. A system incredibly easy to defraud that also refuses to report, investigate or stop said fraud so it can claim it doesn't exist.

(09-12-2016 09:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Because trust me, there are plenty of anti-gay business people in NC who aren't going out of business. One of them is Art Pope.

Time and history will look upon them ever more unfavorably if that is the case. They may not go under tomorrow. Or next month. Or next year. But they will eventually have to answer for that.

(09-12-2016 08:43 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Just like voter fraud "could" happen, 10th. But it never has and never will.

Super easy solution: make all public bathrooms private with a locking door, and the sign just says "bathroom" with a picture of a toilet on it. Boom, solved. No bickering, no ideology to trip over.

I suggest you Google the name Fallon Fox

Dgaf

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(09-12-2016 08:43 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Just like voter fraud "could" happen, 10th. But it never has and never will.

Super easy solution: make all public bathrooms private with a locking door, and the sign just says "bathroom" with a picture of a toilet on it. Boom, solved. No bickering, no ideology to trip over.

Lmao. stupider than I thought he was.

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Anyone who is tired of corporate/private entities dictating what the public should believe and want to at least let them know it more directly, here is a link and a letter I wrote. If you agree with them, feel free to write too of course.

http://www.ncaa.com/mml-contact

My letter (feel free to copy if it fits for you):

To Whom It May Concern,
I understand that the individuals in charge of schools and of the NCAA have personal values and opinions. I respect that those values and opinions are not always going to be the same as my own. I do not feel the NCAA leadership is returning that courtesy.

I have no strong opinion on the issues of bathrooms in North Carolina, but I think that people of good conscious can, after critical thinking on the issue, come to the conclusion that traditional bathroom norms are the best choice. In fact, I think many have.

The NCAA is not designed to be a political agent. As such, when it take actions in the political sphere, it should only do so carefully and with the idea that it is respecting all legitimate, well reasoned opinions. Since the NCAA does not appear to be doing that with the news of championships being moved out of North Carolina, I will be doing the following and encouraging others to as well.

1. I will generally avoid going to or watching NCAA Championships.
2. If I do watch my team or another in an NCAA Championship event for any reason, I will either look up the sponsors of the event or the NCAA's primary sponsors (such as AT&T, Coca-Cola, and Capital One) and tell them I will avoid their product for a time (or am less likely to choose their company) because of their affiliation with an organization which does not respect those with traditional viewpoints.
3. I will post this message a few places and encourage others to do the same.

(09-12-2016 08:56 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  Good. North Carolina sucks.

So tell your Yankee friends to stop coming here.

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