(09-12-2016 10:02 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Anyone who is tired of corporate/private entities dictating what the public should believe and want to at least let them know it more directly, here is a link and a letter I wrote. If you agree with them, feel free to write too of course.

http://www.ncaa.com/mml-contact

My letter (feel free to copy if it fits for you):

To Whom It May Concern,
I understand that the individuals in charge of schools and of the NCAA have personal values and opinions. I respect that those values and opinions are not always going to be the same as my own. I do not feel the NCAA leadership is returning that courtesy.

I have no strong opinion on the issues of bathrooms in North Carolina, but I think that people of good conscious can, after critical thinking on the issue, come to the conclusion that traditional bathroom norms are the best choice. In fact, I think many have.

The NCAA is not designed to be a political agent. As such, when it take actions in the political sphere, it should only do so carefully and with the idea that it is respecting all legitimate, well reasoned opinions. Since the NCAA does not appear to be doing that with the news of championships being moved out of North Carolina, I will be doing the following and encouraging others to as well.

1. I will generally avoid going to or watching NCAA Championships.
2. If I do watch my team or another in an NCAA Championship event for any reason, I will either look up the sponsors of the event or the NCAA's primary sponsors (such as AT&T, Coca-Cola, and Capital One) and tell them I will avoid their product for a time (or am less likely to choose their company) because of their affiliation with an organization which does not respect those with traditional viewpoints.
3. I will post this message a few places and encourage others to do the same.

Good post!

+3

Note: My huge issue is not with the law at all (I think it will rarely be enforced and not worth all of this). My problem is that as a conservative, I can't watch TV without liberal jabs at conservatives and the powers-that-be in entertainment almost all seem to be liberal and pushing out conservative standpoints while allowing liberal/progressive ones (Curt Schilling being dismissed from ESPN when it is extremely doubtful someone posting a meme the other direction would even be disciplined). I want entertainment that I don't feel is supporting a cause I might disagree with and I think the only way I am going to start getting it, is if companies/organizations feel their is risk in making political decisions.

(09-12-2016 09:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 09:12 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 09:07 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  If you are a private business that isn't beholden to the purse of the state to operate then you should be able to deny business to whoever you want for whatever reason you want. Even if that reason is stupid and morally objectionable. If it's stupid enough and morally objectionable enough, they'll go out of business. Simple as that. You see this self-enforcement of the free market in, for example, restaurants that refuse to service police officers. Notice the police officers don't demand legal action. They don't refuse to respond to calls to the restaurant. They just publicize the incident. And the public leaves in droves. Either the restaurant changes heart or they go out of business. That simple.

I have said the same thing multiple times on this board. Could not agree more with the comment and the logic behind it.

Then once it is LEGAL for Gay persons to fire people/not serve people for going to Jerry Falwell's Church, then and ONLY then can we discuss the merits of this.

And so the Gay person just has to continually pay the price.

Because trust me, there are plenty of anti-gay business people in NC who aren't going out of business. One of them is Art Pope.

I would have no issue with queers firing whoever the **** they feel like firing for any reason.

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(09-12-2016 10:10 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Note: My huge issue is not with the law at all (I think it will rarely be enforced and not worth all of this). My problem is that as a conservative, I can't watch TV without liberal jabs at conservatives and the powers-that-be in entertainment almost all seem to be liberal and pushing out conservative standpoints while allowing liberal/progressive ones (Curt Schilling being dismissed from ESPN when it is extremely doubtful someone posting a meme the other direction would even be disciplined). I want entertainment that I don't feel is supporting a cause I might disagree with and I think the only way I am going to start getting it, is if companies/organizations feel their is risk in making political decisions.

Another great post...

I just want to watch football in a way that isn't actively trying to destroy everything I hold dear and think is good in the world.

(09-12-2016 10:09 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 08:56 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  Good. North Carolina sucks.

So tell your Yankee friends to stop coming here.

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Nah, gotta keep tabs on you. Can't have you go trying to break up the union again, gotta squash that crap again if need be.

(09-12-2016 10:09 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 08:56 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  Good. North Carolina sucks.

So tell your Yankee friends to stop coming here.

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I hope you're going to mass evacuate Cary if you're cleaning up up there.

Concentrated Area of Relocated Yankees. Cary, NC

How does the murder rate in North Carolina compare to that showplace of Illinois, Chicago? Really funny to read some moonbat lib on here trying to say NC sucks, when his state is completely broke and their people are shooting each other in record numbers. Yea, NC really sucks compared to Illinois.

(09-12-2016 09:32 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 09:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Because trust me, there are plenty of anti-gay business people in NC who aren't going out of business. One of them is Art Pope.

Time and history will look upon them ever more unfavorably if that is the case. They may not go under tomorrow. Or next month. Or next year. But they will eventually have to answer for that.

And in the meantime, we pay the price. And only we do.

In 100 years we'll all be dead. Justice delayed is justice denied.

(09-12-2016 09:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Slippery slope here. You would get Jerry Sundusky types pretend to be females to go into women's bathrooms and molest little girls. NCAA should take that into considerations as well. Just make a third bathroom for transgenders and be done with it.

They've been going into bathrooms for decades (centuries?) now and no one cared. It just never became an issue until now.

(09-12-2016 10:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 09:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Slippery slope here. You would get Jerry Sundusky types pretend to be females to go into women's bathrooms and molest little girls. NCAA should take that into considerations as well. Just make a third bathroom for transgenders and be done with it.

They've been going into bathrooms for decades (centuries?) now and no one cared. It just never became an issue until now.

Not directed at you...

I find it amazing that so many people don't see this as a big deal. Then why go through all of this to simply prevent adding sexual orientation and gender identity to existing non-discrimination laws.

Its really sad. They argue that discrimination doesn't exist and it isn't a big deal, but will stop at nothing to prevent discrimination from being made illegal.

(09-12-2016 10:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 10:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 09:02 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Slippery slope here. You would get Jerry Sundusky types pretend to be females to go into women's bathrooms and molest little girls. NCAA should take that into considerations as well. Just make a third bathroom for transgenders and be done with it.

They've been going into bathrooms for decades (centuries?) now and no one cared. It just never became an issue until now.

Not directed at you...

I find it amazing that so many people don't see this as a big deal. Then why go through all of this to simply prevent adding sexual orientation and gender identity to existing non-discrimination laws.

Its really sad. They argue that discrimination doesn't exist and it isn't a big deal, but will stop at nothing to prevent discrimination from being made illegal.

Kinda like the left and voter fraud huh?

The right knows some discrimination exists. We are also smart enough to know you can't legislate something out of existence.

Orientation and gender identity have no place among the protected classes.

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(09-12-2016 08:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Funny to see how many white, Christian, straight men -- people who have never been oppressed an iota their entire lives -- howl like whipped dogs at the thought of having "their" country taken away from them.

That is a whopper of a false claim.

Maybe I should be, HOD. But I certainly don't feel it.

Fiscal conservatism is at least justifiable. Social conservatism is a mental disease.

(09-12-2016 10:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And in the meantime, we pay the price. And only we do.

In 100 years we'll all be dead. Justice delayed is justice denied.

It is better to pay the "price" of not being able to conduct a voluntary transaction because the other party didn't want to, than to pay the price of using the power of the state to coerce people at gunpoint to behave how you want them to.

(09-12-2016 11:31 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 10:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And in the meantime, we pay the price. And only we do.

In 100 years we'll all be dead. Justice delayed is justice denied.

It is better to pay the "price" of not being able to conduct a voluntary transaction because the other party didn't want to, than to pay the price of using the power of the state to coerce people at gunpoint to behave how you want them to.

Easy for you to say...you're not the one paying the price. Or paying the higher price.

So long as we're going to have non-discrimination ordinances, there's no argument to exclude LGBT persons from those ordinances. Discrimination is real and it carries a real and tangible cost.

This isn't some rhetorical argument for us. This isn't theory. Its tangible and real to us.

(09-12-2016 11:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Easy for you to say...you're not the one paying the price. Or paying the higher price.

So long as we're going to have non-discrimination ordinances, there's no argument to exclude LGBT persons from those ordinances. Discrimination is real and it carries a real and tangible cost.

This isn't some rhetorical argument for us. This isn't theory. Its tangible and real to us.

I know that feeling. It happens every time I pay my taxes -- and being self-employed that's quarterly UP FRONT might I add. Do I want my hard earned money going to blow up people in Syria? No. Do I want my hard earned money going to fund horrific healthcare outcomes and prices through ObamaCare? No. Do I want my hard earned money going to various alphabet soup agencies to spy on my internet traffic and cell phone activity and location 24/7/365? No.

But if I don't pay, people with guns will show up. If I comply, they put me in a cage and I still have to pay, only now it's more because penalties and interest.

If I don't comply, they'll use physical force to make me comply.

If I resist their force, they'll f*cking shoot me dead on the spot, and steal the money out of my estate.

The coercive power of the state isn't a rhetorical argument for me. It isn't theory. It's tangible and real.

(09-13-2016 12:15 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-12-2016 11:56 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Easy for you to say...you're not the one paying the price. Or paying the higher price.

So long as we're going to have non-discrimination ordinances, there's no argument to exclude LGBT persons from those ordinances. Discrimination is real and it carries a real and tangible cost.

This isn't some rhetorical argument for us. This isn't theory. Its tangible and real to us.

I know that feeling. It happens every time I pay my taxes -- and being self-employed that's quarterly UP FRONT might I add. Do I want my hard earned money going to blow up people in Syria? No. Do I want my hard earned money going to fund horrific healthcare outcomes and prices through ObamaCare? No. Do I want my hard earned money going to various alphabet soup agencies to spy on my internet traffic and cell phone activity and location 24/7/365? No.

But if I don't pay, people with guns will show up. If I comply, they put me in a cage and I still have to pay, only now it's more because penalties and interest.

If I don't comply, they'll use physical force to make me comply.

If I resist their force, they'll f*cking shoot me dead on the spot, and steal the money out of my estate.

The coercive power of the state isn't a rhetorical argument for me. It isn't theory. It's tangible and real.

Understand that the enabling of discrimination by society drives many people, such as myself, to support more governmental power in an attempt to get solutions. I fully support a strong Federal government for a reason.

You use many taxpayer supported services. Employed people pay up front too, via withholding.

But know that you don't pay more than someone else, simply because of who you are. We do have to pay more, because of who we are. Its called the Gay tax, and its the fact that many businesses catering to our community know that they can charge more because not all market participants want to serve our community.

Rumblings out of Charlotte report that the ACC will be meeting this week to decide whether they will tie the 2019 and 2020 ACC basketball tournaments from Charlotte and Greensboro. Those are much bigger deals than a NCAA first and second round hosting rights. I dont think they do, but OMG, if they did....all hell would break loose. Also, there's the issue of the ACC football championship and other championships. I think the NCAA action puts additional pressure on NC. My guess is that if HB2 is still around this time next year, the ACC championships won't be.

I think its pretty obvious that HB2 is going to get repealed. There's just too much pressure building. The only question for NC is this...how much damage do you want to sustain before you repeal the law?

(09-13-2016 12:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the enabling of discrimination by society drives many people, such as myself, to support more governmental power in an attempt to get solutions. I fully support a strong Federal government for a reason.

You use many taxpayer supported services. Employed people pay up front too, via withholding.

But know that you don't pay more than someone else, simply because of who you are. We do have to pay more, because of who we are. Its called the Gay tax, and its the fact that many businesses catering to our community know that they can charge more because not all market participants want to serve our community.

And that drive to support more government solutions only embitters your opponents and drives them further away.

And I'd say I do pay more SPECIFICALLY because of who I am. I don't get any special handouts. There are no Indian or Black or Hispanic or Asian or Women scholarships for me. I essentially have to be demonstrably better than anybody in the former categories to get the same open scholarship. Scholarships to, might I add, public universities which are supported by my tax dollars as well. And then we get to ObamaCare. Single? White? Male? Under 40? Buying on the individual market for yourself? Congrats! You're at the very core of f*cked groups under the new law. My premiums have skyrocketed to an amount that would have previously gotten insurers laughed out of the room when giving a quote. What's that? I busted my ass and make more money now? YOU SHOULD PAY MORE. And not just more because you're paying the same percentage .. you should pay an altogether higher percentage. MUCH higher. More than double the lower brackets on a percentage basis, in fact.

I use few taxpayer services. Roads. Fire. Police. EMS. USPS. These are all passive core services everybody uses even if they never leave their house. Uhhhh ..... I guess I watched This Old House on PBS a few times? Technically I guess I use the military for defense? I went through public K-12 (which I'd be legally required to do anyway) and a public .edu? I don't use public transit. I don't use or even qualify for any form of welfare. I'm on the ObamaCare exchange (for now) because the private market imploded quickly after ObamaCare and I'll be fined if I don't, and if I refuse to pay that fine we're back at the whole people with guns thing. In summary:



Employed people getting hit by FICA are hit when the paycheck arrives. That can be up front for a week, two weeks, maybe even a month. When you're self employed, you're paying right up front for THREE MONTHS AT A TIME. That's a MASSIVE difference, not just in the sheer amount and burden, but in the fact that that's liquidity I don't have to put into capital in the business for three months. That's liquidity I can't invest or even make paltry interest in a bank on (thanks Fed!) for three months. It's robbery on top of robbery.

(09-13-2016 01:32 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(09-13-2016 12:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the enabling of discrimination by society drives many people, such as myself, to support more governmental power in an attempt to get solutions. I fully support a strong Federal government for a reason.

You use many taxpayer supported services. Employed people pay up front too, via withholding.

But know that you don't pay more than someone else, simply because of who you are. We do have to pay more, because of who we are. Its called the Gay tax, and its the fact that many businesses catering to our community know that they can charge more because not all market participants want to serve our community.

And that drive to support more government solutions only embitters your opponents and drives them further away.

And I'd say I do pay more SPECIFICALLY because of who I am. I don't get any special handouts. There are no Indian or Black or Hispanic or Asian or Women scholarships for me. I essentially have to be demonstrably better than anybody in the former categories to get the same open scholarship. Scholarships to, might I add, public universities which are supported by my tax dollars as well. And then we get to ObamaCare. Single? White? Male? Under 40? Buying on the individual market for yourself? Congrats! You're at the very core of f*cked groups under the new law. My premiums have skyrocketed to an amount that would have previously gotten insurers laughed out of the room when giving a quote. What's that? I busted my ass and make more money now? YOU SHOULD PAY MORE. And not just more because you're paying the same percentage .. you should pay an altogether higher percentage. MUCH higher. More than double the lower brackets on a percentage basis, in fact.

I use few taxpayer services. Roads. Fire. Police. EMS. Uhhhh ..... I guess I watched This Old House on PBS a few times?

Employed people getting hit by FICA are hit when the paycheck arrives. That can be up front for a week, two weeks, maybe even a month. When you're self employed, you're paying right up front for THREE MONTHS AT A TIME. That's a MASSIVE difference, not just in the sheer amount and burden, but in the fact that that's liquidity I don't have to put into capital in the business for three months. That's liquidity I can't invest or even make paltry interest in a bank on (thanks Fed!) for four months. It's robbery on top of robbery.

What special handouts do Gays get?