(10-22-2015 03:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Now that I'm done with the pic poster

Lets recap.

HERO is a bill that directly refers to employment discrimination regarding LGBT persons. It also directly discusses public accommodations. It does NOT refer to a restroom, nor will it change existing laws making it illegal for someone to rape, assault, expose oneself to, or otherwise misbehave in a restroom.

The NFL Texans owner has decided to support to make it legal for him to discriminate in employment against Gay players. Even if they won the combines.

There has never been an openly Gay player in the history of the league. Out of 35,000 game day players, Zero.
There have been players who came out of the closet after they retired from the league. Every single player has said that he felt that discrimination in the league was prevalent. 100%
Michael Sam was downgraded 200 places in the draft the night of coming out of the closet. Venerated NFL leaders like Tony Dungy openly campaigned against him making a team
The team that drafted Sam didn't need a DE in the 7th round and had a bunch of picks at the end of that round
Pro Gay voices get fired, such as Chris Kluwe. Anti Gay voices like Pfeffer and Dungy are venerated

---

For the NFL this has nothing to do with a bathroom. It has everything to do with employment discrimination.

Michael Sam wasn't good enough. He couldn't even make it in the CFL. Give me a ******* break Tom.

Here's the problem with you people. When bad things happen it automatically MUST BE discrimination. There can't possibly be any other explanation.

Sam by himself? Sure.

Zero out of 35,000, plus Chris Kluwe, plus Tony Dungy, plus the coming out night draft position downgrade, plus the Texans open support for employment discrimination, plus other NFL teams trying to find out closeted draftees and not hire them, plus the testimony of every single openly Gay player who came out after retiring, plus the absence of any openly Gay coaches, assistant coaches, scouts, or player development staff in the history of the league?

Nope. There's just too much evidence of bias. There comes a point where claims of 'no bias' just become absolutely not credible.

I've pointed out an avalanche of evidence of anti-Gay bias and anti-Gay environment in the NFL. Can you point to anything to refute that?

Honestly, wgaf? Would you want to come out as queer in the NFL?

wtf is "HERO" anyway? Clever acronym.

(10-22-2015 03:58 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  wtf is "HERO" anyway? Clever acronym.

Houston Equal Rights Ordinance

(10-22-2015 03:46 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  I'm a Vikings fan.

Chris Kluwe was a slightly below average punter.

I know, I know....muh discrimination. Muh tolerance. Muh voice.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...n-cowards/

Of course the Vikings said, 'no way the coach advocated killing all Gays and their supporters'....but then they found out that Kluwe was 100% correct in his assertion.

End result..

Kluwe fired
Pfeiffer got a small penalty, but kept his job.

---

Seriously guys...what kind of bubble do you live in when

A friggin' coach says he wants all Gay people and those that support them to be put on an island and murdered

And its the Gay supportive player, not the coach, who gets canned

And you want anyone to believe that the NFL isn't biased against Gay persons?

(10-22-2015 03:48 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Sam would've helped his draft stock by running the 40 in under 5 seconds

Seeing as coming out of the closet caused it to fall by 200 spots I'm not sure that running it in under 3 seconds would have helped him.

And that was before Tony Dungy started his campaign for him to not be drafted.

---

We're pretty sure the Vikings don't want a Gay player
We're pretty sure the Texans don't want a Gay player

How many other teams don't hire/draft Gay players? Who knows, but I've yet to see one NFL owner condemn, much less sanction the Texans for their DIRECT SUPPORT of not hiring Gay people.

---

In fact, the NFL is now in the position of attempting to protect its' ability to discriminate. Financially. Publicly.

---

Why not ask the openly Gay people who came out after playing in the league?

(10-22-2015 03:56 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Now that I'm done with the pic poster

Lets recap.

HERO is a bill that directly refers to employment discrimination regarding LGBT persons. It also directly discusses public accommodations. It does NOT refer to a restroom, nor will it change existing laws making it illegal for someone to rape, assault, expose oneself to, or otherwise misbehave in a restroom.

The NFL Texans owner has decided to support to make it legal for him to discriminate in employment against Gay players. Even if they won the combines.

There has never been an openly Gay player in the history of the league. Out of 35,000 game day players, Zero.
There have been players who came out of the closet after they retired from the league. Every single player has said that he felt that discrimination in the league was prevalent. 100%
Michael Sam was downgraded 200 places in the draft the night of coming out of the closet. Venerated NFL leaders like Tony Dungy openly campaigned against him making a team
The team that drafted Sam didn't need a DE in the 7th round and had a bunch of picks at the end of that round
Pro Gay voices get fired, such as Chris Kluwe. Anti Gay voices like Pfeffer and Dungy are venerated

---

For the NFL this has nothing to do with a bathroom. It has everything to do with employment discrimination.

Michael Sam wasn't good enough. He couldn't even make it in the CFL. Give me a ******* break Tom.

Here's the problem with you people. When bad things happen it automatically MUST BE discrimination. There can't possibly be any other explanation.

Sam by himself? Sure.

Zero out of 35,000, plus Chris Kluwe, plus Tony Dungy, plus the coming out night draft position downgrade, plus the Texans open support for employment discrimination, plus other NFL teams trying to find out closeted draftees and not hire them, plus the testimony of every single openly Gay player who came out after retiring, plus the absence of any openly Gay coaches, assistant coaches, scouts, or player development staff in the history of the league?

Nope. There's just too much evidence of bias. There comes a point where claims of 'no bias' just become absolutely not credible.

I've pointed out an avalanche of evidence of anti-Gay bias and anti-Gay environment in the NFL. Can you point to anything to refute that?

Honestly, wgaf? Would you want to come out as queer in the NFL?

There's a reason it's called "smear the queer"

(10-22-2015 03:56 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Now that I'm done with the pic poster

Lets recap.

HERO is a bill that directly refers to employment discrimination regarding LGBT persons. It also directly discusses public accommodations. It does NOT refer to a restroom, nor will it change existing laws making it illegal for someone to rape, assault, expose oneself to, or otherwise misbehave in a restroom.

The NFL Texans owner has decided to support to make it legal for him to discriminate in employment against Gay players. Even if they won the combines.

There has never been an openly Gay player in the history of the league. Out of 35,000 game day players, Zero.
There have been players who came out of the closet after they retired from the league. Every single player has said that he felt that discrimination in the league was prevalent. 100%
Michael Sam was downgraded 200 places in the draft the night of coming out of the closet. Venerated NFL leaders like Tony Dungy openly campaigned against him making a team
The team that drafted Sam didn't need a DE in the 7th round and had a bunch of picks at the end of that round
Pro Gay voices get fired, such as Chris Kluwe. Anti Gay voices like Pfeffer and Dungy are venerated

---

For the NFL this has nothing to do with a bathroom. It has everything to do with employment discrimination.

Michael Sam wasn't good enough. He couldn't even make it in the CFL. Give me a ******* break Tom.

Here's the problem with you people. When bad things happen it automatically MUST BE discrimination. There can't possibly be any other explanation.

Sam by himself? Sure.

Zero out of 35,000, plus Chris Kluwe, plus Tony Dungy, plus the coming out night draft position downgrade, plus the Texans open support for employment discrimination, plus other NFL teams trying to find out closeted draftees and not hire them, plus the testimony of every single openly Gay player who came out after retiring, plus the absence of any openly Gay coaches, assistant coaches, scouts, or player development staff in the history of the league?

Nope. There's just too much evidence of bias. There comes a point where claims of 'no bias' just become absolutely not credible.

I've pointed out an avalanche of evidence of anti-Gay bias and anti-Gay environment in the NFL. Can you point to anything to refute that?

Honestly, wgaf? Would you want to come out as queer in the NFL?

No. It would end my career. And that's the point. Everyone knows that the discrimination is so bad that it kills careers. Then the NFL had a chance to show everyone that 'no, the NFL isn't some bigoted sh*thole of discrimination', and they blow it, spectacularly.

Then combine that with Chris Kluwe's experience

and the open advocacy of the Texans of employment discrimination...

And you get a huge picture here.

----

The NFL has now put its stamp of approval on rejecting HERO. If HERO is rejected, the entire league will own it. That's a promise. A press release or a policy change that isn't backed up with RESULTS will not be sufficient.

The dumba*sses in the league think they can just help HERO fail then issue some stupid non-discrimination policy that won't ever be enforced and some stupid language that doesn't sanction or punish McNair and take away the Super Bowl and people will just STFU.

Nope. There's just too much evidence in this case of bias.

And what we've been asking for (openly Gay players and head coaches) from the league is exactly what the league is trying to frustrate with their support of HERO.

So we're going to go after the league, their stadium deals, the 2017 Super Bowl, and the cable contracts.

How much you wanna make a bet Sam starts complaining too...

30 radical feminists with some obscure study caused a lot of trouble for the league using the case of Super Bowl and spousal abuse....

I think that this case, which has REAL evidence of bias, is going to cause more of a buzz. A lot more of a buzz

---

The league is tone deaf. They've had decades to make changes to get rid of the bias in the league. To turf out the anti-Gay organizations that spread toxic hate in the lockerrooms and the clubhouses. Groups that would not be allowed in any other secular workplace. They chose to do nothing. But even the NFL runs out of time, eventually.

Time was close to being up when they killed Sam's chances.

Time's up with the NFL openly supporting employment discrimination.

Why do some queers think everybody must know that they're queer and be ok with it? I mean, nobody (who doesn't know my personal life) would know if I'm gay or straight because i dont make a big deal of being straight. I'm just straight.... Ya know?

Gays are so weird about this issue. That's what is so off putting about this. You're so attention seekingvand starving for approval it's honestly quite pathetic.

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(10-22-2015 04:23 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Why do some queers think everybody must know that they're queer and be ok with it? I mean, nobody (who doesn't know my personal life) would know if I'm gay or straight because i dont make a big deal of being straight. I'm just straight.... Ya know?

Gays are so weird about this issue. That's what is so off putting about this. You're so attention seekingvand starving for approval it's honestly quite pathetic.

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because its "courageous"

I'm sure the NFL is scared of losing that big gay football fan demographic.
pathetic

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(10-22-2015 04:23 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Why do some queers think everybody must know that they're queer and be ok with it? I mean, nobody (who doesn't know my personal life) would know if I'm gay or straight because i dont make a big deal of being straight. I'm just straight.... Ya know?

Gays are so weird about this issue. That's what is so off putting about this. You're so attention seekingvand starving for approval it's honestly quite pathetic.

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Because if you can be fired or discriminated against for people knowing about it, you have no right to do it.

You're just one honest statement from being fired.

Everyone knows who is Gay and who is Straight. Everyone who knows a person reasonably well. Do you have a girlfriend? Where did you go last weekend? And hiding from social interaction...means that you're not a 'team player' and sets you up for discrimination.

I'm not sure you understand the world of athletics. Its not like any other business. In many places you have to pretend to be Christian to get playing time or even be on a team. Even today.
http://highschoolsports.al.com/news/arti...-football/

And the groups behind this 'winning souls' aren't Episcopalians, if you know what I mean. These are virulently anti-gay groups.

Wanna get playing time on Friday? Well then you better be at Church with Coach on Wednesday.

These groups even follow the players into the NFL. What other business allows anti-Gay religious groups to recruit and conduct services on their premises and during work hours?

And that's just part of the problem. But the NFL is furthering it, not combating it.

Utter bull**** Tom.

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(10-22-2015 04:27 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm sure the NFL is scared of losing that big gay football fan demographic.
pathetic

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They should be scared of our voting against their next dollar grab from the taxpayers. Gays and those that support them are usually dominant in the urban areas that the NFL demands support from.

If HERO is rejected, expect it to be brought up in Carson.

We also can control city councils. Lets see if we can get them to start mandating monetizing NFL subsidies from cable contracts and demanding that the wired cable carrier provide contracts with that subsidy removed for those that opt out. For MLB and the NCAA, and the NBA, and the NHL too. There's lots of people who don't care for sports. Its part of the sports business model to make those that don't watch pay for your programming under penalty of not having any cable otherwise.

By they way, the era of paying everything that people ask for to major league sports owners is getting old.

Seattle's voters let the Sonics go. And one reason was that the owner was anti-Gay. Capitol Hill and other Gay areas were heavily against the new arena.

(10-22-2015 04:39 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Utter bull**** Tom.

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right? But of course, if you ask him for numbers, he wont provide any. You give him an inch and he will try to take a mile.

(10-22-2015 04:39 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Utter bull**** Tom.

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Yea, how many non-fundamentalists are there on Theodore or Baldwin County's football team.

And these are PUBLIC schools.

By the way, I grew up in Alabama. You want playing time, well then you better be right with the FCA. You want to coach? You better be right with the FCA.

The friggin head of the AHSAA is unconcerned of the perception (justified IMHO) of public school coaches using their position of power over players as a recruiting tool for their churches.

That article ran on Monday. The only coach that didn't seem like a problem was the one at Davidson HS.

---

And the FCA is very anti-Gay. Very, very, very anti-Gay.

---

I suppose this probably deserves its own thread. But understand that part of the problem is that Gay players and those that want to coach get locked out because they aren't members/supporters of the FCA along the way. The NFL's lockout of Gay players is a simple continuation of that. Tolerance of discrimination against non-fundy players in high school and college begats discrimination in the NFL.

But the NFL, instead of combating that, amplifies it by supporting discrimination and by providing special access to anti-Gay religious groups to their workplace. Access that few other private business would think about providing.

(10-22-2015 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 01:30 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 01:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:57 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So based on every objective measurement Sam was nowhere near the NFL prospect that Clowney was. He wasn't as good as 14 other DE tested at the combine.
So, now that we have some actual numbers, how many DE's were drafted ahead of Sam?
Another false argument is saying the Rams drafted him because they didn't need a DE so it would be easier to cut him. 2 problems with that. The first, you basically admit that he was not good enough to suplant someone already on the roster. If you are not better than the person ahead of you on the depth chart you don't play. Secondly, lots of teams draft players they don't 'need'. Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the Packers when Favre was at his best. They didn't NEED a QB yet drafted one anyways

Please. The Rams never gave Sam a chance. He would have had a chance had all NFL teams not discriminated against him, solely because he is Gay.

If Rodgers had come out of the closet before he went into the league, no one would have drafted him. And if he came out of the closet while active in the league, he'd be tossed. Maybe he, or someone like him, will come out after their playing days are over and, like all the other players who was in the closet while in the league, will confirm my assertion that the league is very anti-Gay and that discrimination is rife.

The Rams used a draft pick on him. They obviously thought he was worthy of that. If they didn't plan on giving him a chance, why waste a draft pick?
He got drafted. That puts him in front of the line for a roster spot ahead of a lot of people.

They used a throwaway pick on him.

Look...the NFL was under two competing priorities.

First, people aren't willing to believe that the SEC player of the year could go undrafted.

But the NFL is filled with anti-Gay bias and they wanted to keep the league free of queers.

So they found a team with 4 draft pics at the end of the draft, told them to burn one of them, and make sure that he doesn't make the team. Who cares that the Rams had no business drafting a DE in the 7th round

----

0 out of 35,000

A NFL owner is now actively supporting employment discrimination against Gay persons.

And a majority of the NFL owners don't seem to be concerned by that. Actually none of them seem concerned.

----

Good luck trying to educate the American people about the finer points of the Draft System. But either way, none of you can explain the 200 point drop in draft position that Sam experienced the night he came out of the closet. The draft experts really knew their stuff....that an openly Gay player..had no shot.

Are you asserting that the NFL went to the Rams and ORDERED them to take Sam? Do you have a source for that? I agree that the Rams took a flyer on him. Simply because he was the SEC DPOY.
Also, who said he was going to go 200 spots before he was drafted?

(10-22-2015 05:11 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 01:30 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 01:04 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:57 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So based on every objective measurement Sam was nowhere near the NFL prospect that Clowney was. He wasn't as good as 14 other DE tested at the combine.
So, now that we have some actual numbers, how many DE's were drafted ahead of Sam?
Another false argument is saying the Rams drafted him because they didn't need a DE so it would be easier to cut him. 2 problems with that. The first, you basically admit that he was not good enough to suplant someone already on the roster. If you are not better than the person ahead of you on the depth chart you don't play. Secondly, lots of teams draft players they don't 'need'. Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the Packers when Favre was at his best. They didn't NEED a QB yet drafted one anyways

Please. The Rams never gave Sam a chance. He would have had a chance had all NFL teams not discriminated against him, solely because he is Gay.

If Rodgers had come out of the closet before he went into the league, no one would have drafted him. And if he came out of the closet while active in the league, he'd be tossed. Maybe he, or someone like him, will come out after their playing days are over and, like all the other players who was in the closet while in the league, will confirm my assertion that the league is very anti-Gay and that discrimination is rife.

The Rams used a draft pick on him. They obviously thought he was worthy of that. If they didn't plan on giving him a chance, why waste a draft pick?
He got drafted. That puts him in front of the line for a roster spot ahead of a lot of people.

They used a throwaway pick on him.

Look...the NFL was under two competing priorities.

First, people aren't willing to believe that the SEC player of the year could go undrafted.

But the NFL is filled with anti-Gay bias and they wanted to keep the league free of queers.

So they found a team with 4 draft pics at the end of the draft, told them to burn one of them, and make sure that he doesn't make the team. Who cares that the Rams had no business drafting a DE in the 7th round

----

0 out of 35,000

A NFL owner is now actively supporting employment discrimination against Gay persons.

And a majority of the NFL owners don't seem to be concerned by that. Actually none of them seem concerned.

----

Good luck trying to educate the American people about the finer points of the Draft System. But either way, none of you can explain the 200 point drop in draft position that Sam experienced the night he came out of the closet. The draft experts really knew their stuff....that an openly Gay player..had no shot.

Are you asserting that the NFL went to the Rams and ORDERED them to take Sam? Do you have a source for that? I agree that the Rams took a flyer on him. Simply because he was the SEC DPOY.
Also, who said he was going to go 200 spots before he was drafted?

Sam, the only Gay SEC DPOY, was the furthest player taken in the draft. By several rounds.

Seriously, seeing as the Vikings think that all Gay players and their supporters should be killed and the Texans think that all Gay people should face employment discrimination....what teams were actually willing to review Sam based upon his merits

The Vikings just continue with the bigotry http://www.outsports.com/2015/6/26/88517...lia-incest

No penatly for Robinson. But Kluwe is fired for his activism to support Gay marriage.

How many other teams would pass on a gay player? ANY Gay player.

It seems as though no NFL owner has a problem with employment discrimination against Gays. I do think the Rams were ordered to take Sam and then spike his candidacy for the league. Jones' wasn't giving Sam a real chance.

---

At some point all of the evidence of bias paints a very clear picture. The Texans' donation is a smoking gun. McNair isn't even pretending that he wants to be held accountable for not discriminating against Gays. He's fighting to be able to discriminate with impunity.

You spewed all your bs in your first post Tom. No need for the other 482.

(10-22-2015 04:39 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Utter bull**** Tom.

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Well put.

I've had employees I didn't know were gay until years later seeing with someone else who I knew was. I've got a couple of fairly good friends I'm not sure if they are or aren't. Its maybe 50% chance. Its not important. We don't really discuss the things you say everyone talks about.

Houston doesn't really need this ordinance because few people are as obsessed with it as Tom. Its not important at work. I've been in a really, really conservative company with as obviously and openly gay man as you could imagine. But he was still treated like family.

(10-22-2015 04:50 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 04:39 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Utter bull**** Tom.

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Yea, how many non-fundamentalists are there on Theodore or Baldwin County's football team.

And these are PUBLIC schools.

By the way, I grew up in Alabama. You want playing time, well then you better be right with the FCA. You want to coach? You better be right with the FCA.

The friggin head of the AHSAA is unconcerned of the perception (justified IMHO) of public school coaches using their position of power over players as a recruiting tool for their churches.

That article ran on Monday. The only coach that didn't seem like a problem was the one at Davidson HS.

---

And the FCA is very anti-Gay. Very, very, very anti-Gay.

---

I suppose this probably deserves its own thread. But understand that part of the problem is that Gay players and those that want to coach get locked out because they aren't members/supporters of the FCA along the way. The NFL's lockout of Gay players is a simple continuation of that. Tolerance of discrimination against non-fundy players in high school and college begats discrimination in the NFL.

But the NFL, instead of combating that, amplifies it by supporting discrimination and by providing special access to anti-Gay religious groups to their workplace. Access that few other private business would think about providing.

As someone who also grew up in Alabama and played sports at a public big school, I can safely say there was zero FCA involvement at my school. Tom is just talking out his ass again. I played 2 sports throughout high school in the state's largest classification. I also attended the large southern baptist church in town too.

The amount of paranoia is pretty funny.