(10-22-2015 10:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:50 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:15 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:47 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  But the law being backed still ALLOWS you to hire gays. So if Sam met the measurables that an NFL DE needs to meet any team COULD let him play. So nothing is preventing him from playing. If he has the talent. You have not proven 1 solid fact that Sam has what it takes to be in the NFL.

Actually if everyone else can play for all the teams, and over half the NFL owners either directly support or don't have a problem with not hiring/drafting someone because they are Gay, then the Gay person is at a HUGE disadvantage.

Just like a Gay football coach would be trying to gain employment in a world where some of the employers won't hire Gay people.

0 of 35,000.

0 openly Gay coaches

0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches.

Again. Not showing where Gays are prohibited from playing in the NFL.
We are talking about 1 player. So your 0 for whatever numbers don't have relevance
Finally, with you saying that Sam was the equivalent of Clowney on the field do you have any stats to back that up? What were Clowneys measurable sat the combine or his pro day compared to Sam? If they were not equal, or even close, your argument does not hold water

Stats are for those that have to be judged based upon stats. The owner of the Texans, with the apparent support of the NFL, wants to ensure that Gays can be excluded from the league regardless of stats.

Here's some stats for you

0 of 35,000
0 openly Gay head coaches
0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches

I'm not sure there's ever been an openly Gay scout either.


Here's some more

100% of openly Gay persons who came out subsequent to being active players said that the fear of discrimination was the reason they hid in the closet while active in the NFL.

One of the only vocally supportive of LGBT rights player was canned by the Vikings, who cited his 'activism'. His coach said that all Gays and their supporters should be subjected to genocidal murder. The coach was retained. The Gay supportive player was fired.

Meanwhile Tony Dungy gets celebrated by the league as he advocates and advances hatred and abuse of LGBT persons. As do a large number of homophobic players.

---

Its hard to claim that the NFL isn't discriminating, when there's a lot of evidence that it has been discriminating AND THE OWNERSHIP WANTS TO PROTECT ITS RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE.

---

Look, either HERO will be retained, or we will turn Sunday into a liberal estrogen fest. Because the NFL doesn't have any credible excuse as to why they've been supporting discrimination against LGBT persons, wants to turn the 2017 Super Bowl into a hate fest where fans will have to face humiliation to attend, have been firing Gay supportive players, venerate vocally hateful voices against LGBT persons, and have a history of excluding every openly Gay person from every player and player development position except for the ridiculous charade of having the one team that had no need for a DE draft him 3 slots before the end of the draft because all the other teams wouldn't draft a Gay player.

So how come no one has made any complaints towards the NFL or the St. Louis Rams for discriminating against Michael Sam for being gay?

(10-22-2015 11:21 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:50 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:15 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-20-2015 10:47 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  But the law being backed still ALLOWS you to hire gays. So if Sam met the measurables that an NFL DE needs to meet any team COULD let him play. So nothing is preventing him from playing. If he has the talent. You have not proven 1 solid fact that Sam has what it takes to be in the NFL.

Actually if everyone else can play for all the teams, and over half the NFL owners either directly support or don't have a problem with not hiring/drafting someone because they are Gay, then the Gay person is at a HUGE disadvantage.

Just like a Gay football coach would be trying to gain employment in a world where some of the employers won't hire Gay people.

0 of 35,000.

0 openly Gay coaches

0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches.

Again. Not showing where Gays are prohibited from playing in the NFL.
We are talking about 1 player. So your 0 for whatever numbers don't have relevance
Finally, with you saying that Sam was the equivalent of Clowney on the field do you have any stats to back that up? What were Clowneys measurable sat the combine or his pro day compared to Sam? If they were not equal, or even close, your argument does not hold water

Stats are for those that have to be judged based upon stats. The owner of the Texans, with the apparent support of the NFL, wants to ensure that Gays can be excluded from the league regardless of stats.

Here's some stats for you

0 of 35,000
0 openly Gay head coaches
0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches

I'm not sure there's ever been an openly Gay scout either.


Here's some more

100% of openly Gay persons who came out subsequent to being active players said that the fear of discrimination was the reason they hid in the closet while active in the NFL.

One of the only vocally supportive of LGBT rights player was canned by the Vikings, who cited his 'activism'. His coach said that all Gays and their supporters should be subjected to genocidal murder. The coach was retained. The Gay supportive player was fired.

Meanwhile Tony Dungy gets celebrated by the league as he advocates and advances hatred and abuse of LGBT persons. As do a large number of homophobic players.

---

Its hard to claim that the NFL isn't discriminating, when there's a lot of evidence that it has been discriminating AND THE OWNERSHIP WANTS TO PROTECT ITS RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE.

---

Look, either HERO will be retained, or we will turn Sunday into a liberal estrogen fest. Because the NFL doesn't have any credible excuse as to why they've been supporting discrimination against LGBT persons, wants to turn the 2017 Super Bowl into a hate fest where fans will have to face humiliation to attend, have been firing Gay supportive players, venerate vocally hateful voices against LGBT persons, and have a history of excluding every openly Gay person from every player and player development position except for the ridiculous charade of having the one team that had no need for a DE draft him 3 slots before the end of the draft because all the other teams wouldn't draft a Gay player.

So how come no one has made any complaints towards the NFL or the St. Louis Rams for discriminating against Michael Sam for being gay?

Because the Rams are the only team that are largely to be excluded from a complaint...I don't dispute that no one wanted Sam. I argue that no one wanted him because he is queer and they're all a bunch of FCA anti-Gay bigots. You guys say its because Sam wasn't good enough to be a player in the NFL. Funny thing..he was good enough, according to the scouts until 3 hours after he came out of the closet. The Rams were in on the scam IMHO, but they, legally are protected better than the other teams from charges.

So the NFL made the Rams draft him 3 slots before the end of the draft. It was obvious that the Rams weren't going to let him make the team, because they didn't need a DE. If a team that actually had a need for a DE would actually draft queers..then he'd probably be playing in the league now.

Plenty have claimed that Gay players, including Sam, are discriminated against by the league.

What law would Sam use to file a complaint in Houston Texas in 2014 for anti-Gay discrimination, Mister Legal "Expert"...? Oh..it was completely LEGAL for the Texans to say 'no queers' in 2014. And is again, now.. Because of the Texans owner's donations

So no on field comparisons showing Sam was a better NFL prospect than Clowney. This is the key component of your argument and you can't provide facts. If the ONLY reasonable reason Sam is not in the NFL is because he is gay you should easily be able to rule out any other reason. You have t done so. You keep going back to 0 for whatever. This is about Sam. Prove that he had the measurable to be an NFL player and or a better prospect than Clowney

(10-22-2015 11:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:21 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:50 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 10:15 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Actually if everyone else can play for all the teams, and over half the NFL owners either directly support or don't have a problem with not hiring/drafting someone because they are Gay, then the Gay person is at a HUGE disadvantage.

Just like a Gay football coach would be trying to gain employment in a world where some of the employers won't hire Gay people.

0 of 35,000.

0 openly Gay coaches

0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches.

Again. Not showing where Gays are prohibited from playing in the NFL.
We are talking about 1 player. So your 0 for whatever numbers don't have relevance
Finally, with you saying that Sam was the equivalent of Clowney on the field do you have any stats to back that up? What were Clowneys measurable sat the combine or his pro day compared to Sam? If they were not equal, or even close, your argument does not hold water

Stats are for those that have to be judged based upon stats. The owner of the Texans, with the apparent support of the NFL, wants to ensure that Gays can be excluded from the league regardless of stats.

Here's some stats for you

0 of 35,000
0 openly Gay head coaches
0 openly Gay Assistant Coaches

I'm not sure there's ever been an openly Gay scout either.


Here's some more

100% of openly Gay persons who came out subsequent to being active players said that the fear of discrimination was the reason they hid in the closet while active in the NFL.

One of the only vocally supportive of LGBT rights player was canned by the Vikings, who cited his 'activism'. His coach said that all Gays and their supporters should be subjected to genocidal murder. The coach was retained. The Gay supportive player was fired.

Meanwhile Tony Dungy gets celebrated by the league as he advocates and advances hatred and abuse of LGBT persons. As do a large number of homophobic players.

---

Its hard to claim that the NFL isn't discriminating, when there's a lot of evidence that it has been discriminating AND THE OWNERSHIP WANTS TO PROTECT ITS RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE.

---

Look, either HERO will be retained, or we will turn Sunday into a liberal estrogen fest. Because the NFL doesn't have any credible excuse as to why they've been supporting discrimination against LGBT persons, wants to turn the 2017 Super Bowl into a hate fest where fans will have to face humiliation to attend, have been firing Gay supportive players, venerate vocally hateful voices against LGBT persons, and have a history of excluding every openly Gay person from every player and player development position except for the ridiculous charade of having the one team that had no need for a DE draft him 3 slots before the end of the draft because all the other teams wouldn't draft a Gay player.

So how come no one has made any complaints towards the NFL or the St. Louis Rams for discriminating against Michael Sam for being gay?

Because the Rams are the only team that are largely to be excluded from a complaint...

Plenty have claimed that Gay players, including Sam, are discriminated by the league.

What law would Sam use to file a complaint in Houston Texas in 2014 for anti-Gay discrimination, Mister Legal "Expert"...? Oh..it was completely LEGAL for the Texans to say 'no queers' in 2014. And is again, now.. Because of the Texans owner's donations

1. How are the Rams excluded from the complaint? They did "fire" him right?

2. You still cant provide any proof?

3. Ok, kid, Michael Sam and the Houston Texans dont have anything in common. He can make a complaint against the Rams for "firing" him without a cause, according to you, or the NFL for discrimination, according to you. I didnt ask anything about the Houston Texans, but you keep bringing them up. He can file a petition in St. Louis or New York City. Of course, he hasnt, no one has, because we all know that he sucked as an NFL player.

4. You are just talking out of your ass.

(10-22-2015 11:31 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So no on field comparisons showing Sam was a better NFL prospect than Clowney. This is the key component of your argument and you can't provide facts. If the ONLY reasonable reason Sam is not in the NFL is because he is gay you should easily be able to rule out any other reason. You have t done so. You keep going back to 0 for whatever. This is about Sam. Prove that he had the measurable to be an NFL player and or a better prospect than Clowney

This is what Tom is doing

(10-22-2015 11:31 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So no on field comparisons showing Sam was a better NFL prospect than Clowney. This is the key component of your argument and you can't provide facts. If the ONLY reasonable reason Sam is not in the NFL is because he is gay you should easily be able to rule out any other reason. You have t done so. You keep going back to 0 for whatever. This is about Sam. Prove that he had the measurable to be an NFL player and or a better prospect than Clowney

Don't need to prove anything.

The Texans' owner supports firing people if they come out of the closet and not hiring them if they are Gay.

Sam was the SEC player of the year. He was projected to go high in the draft until he came out. Then the draft 'experts' immediately threw his chances in the trash.

And they were right.

Had nothing to do with a combine.

Those 'experts' knew their stuff. They knew that an openly Gay player had virtually no chance of getting making a gameday roster. Regardless of stats.

(10-22-2015 11:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:31 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So no on field comparisons showing Sam was a better NFL prospect than Clowney. This is the key component of your argument and you can't provide facts. If the ONLY reasonable reason Sam is not in the NFL is because he is gay you should easily be able to rule out any other reason. You have t done so. You keep going back to 0 for whatever. This is about Sam. Prove that he had the measurable to be an NFL player and or a better prospect than Clowney

Don't need to prove anything.

The Texans' owner supports firing people if they come out of the closet and not hiring them if they are Gay.

Sam was the SEC player of the year. He was projected to go high in the draft until he came out. Then the draft 'experts' immediately threw his chances in the trash.

And they were right.

Had nothing to do with a combine.

Those 'experts' knew their stuff. They knew that an openly Gay player had virtually no chance of getting making a gameday roster. Regardless of stats.

You are just making up stuff. You should get some facts before making up stuff to support your preconceived notions. He was projected to go low because he was small for a lineman. He bombed in the combine. Was one of the slowest players there (think he was the absolute slowest). Those are the facts.

Archie Griffin won 2 Heisman trophies and did almost nothing in the pros. He was great in college, but too small and slow for the pros. Same for Sam.

(10-22-2015 11:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:31 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So no on field comparisons showing Sam was a better NFL prospect than Clowney. This is the key component of your argument and you can't provide facts. If the ONLY reasonable reason Sam is not in the NFL is because he is gay you should easily be able to rule out any other reason. You have t done so. You keep going back to 0 for whatever. This is about Sam. Prove that he had the measurable to be an NFL player and or a better prospect than Clowney

Don't need to prove anything.

The Texans' owner supports firing people if they come out of the closet and not hiring them if they are Gay.

Sam was the SEC player of the year. He was projected to go high in the draft until he came out. Then the draft 'experts' immediately threw his chances in the trash.

And they were right.

Had nothing to do with a combine.

Those 'experts' knew their stuff. They knew that an openly Gay player had virtually no chance of getting making a gameday roster. Regardless of stats.

Actually proof is sort of a big thing you need when you make an accusation

Just being the SEC DPOY doesn't mean anything. It's what can be measured. You know, stats.
And what experts said he was going to be a high draft pick and then changed their minds? And was it before or after the Combine?

(10-22-2015 11:49 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:31 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So no on field comparisons showing Sam was a better NFL prospect than Clowney. This is the key component of your argument and you can't provide facts. If the ONLY reasonable reason Sam is not in the NFL is because he is gay you should easily be able to rule out any other reason. You have t done so. You keep going back to 0 for whatever. This is about Sam. Prove that he had the measurable to be an NFL player and or a better prospect than Clowney

Don't need to prove anything.

The Texans' owner supports firing people if they come out of the closet and not hiring them if they are Gay.

Sam was the SEC player of the year. He was projected to go high in the draft until he came out. Then the draft 'experts' immediately threw his chances in the trash.

And they were right.

Had nothing to do with a combine.

Those 'experts' knew their stuff. They knew that an openly Gay player had virtually no chance of getting making a gameday roster. Regardless of stats.

You are just making up stuff. You should get some facts before making up stuff to support your preconceived notions. He was projected to go low because he was small for a lineman. He bombed in the combine. Was one of the slowest players there (think he was the absolute slowest). Those are the facts.

Archie Griffin won 2 Heisman trophies and did almost nothing in the pros. He was great in college, but too small and slow for the pros. Same for Sam.

Did you see what the 'experts' did to Sam's draft prospects the night he came out of the closet? Down 200 places in the draft. Immediately. No combine that day.

And that was before Dungy and the other anti-Gay bigots started their 'no queer' campaign to keep Sam out of the league.

Griffin made a gameday roster. Sam never got a chance.

And the NFL now wants to protect its right to discriminate against Sam and other Gay players.

The Texans want to discriminate. The NFL (or at least a majority of its owners) don't have a problem with that.

And we have history here

0 out of 35,000 gameday players have been openly Gay
no openly Gay coaches
no openly Gay assistant coaches
no openly Gay scouts (that I'm aware of)
no openly Gay draft experts (that I'm aware of)
Gay supportive NFL players fired for 'activism'
anti-Gay NFL figures and players venerated in spite of hateful advocacy of cruelty towards LGBT persons
100% of ex NFL players who came out of the closet have testified that there was an anti-Gay climate that they feared

Trying to bring up a 40 time isn't going to compete with the totality of the facts here.

(10-22-2015 11:52 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:31 AM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  So no on field comparisons showing Sam was a better NFL prospect than Clowney. This is the key component of your argument and you can't provide facts. If the ONLY reasonable reason Sam is not in the NFL is because he is gay you should easily be able to rule out any other reason. You have t done so. You keep going back to 0 for whatever. This is about Sam. Prove that he had the measurable to be an NFL player and or a better prospect than Clowney

Don't need to prove anything.

The Texans' owner supports firing people if they come out of the closet and not hiring them if they are Gay.

Sam was the SEC player of the year. He was projected to go high in the draft until he came out. Then the draft 'experts' immediately threw his chances in the trash.

And they were right.

Had nothing to do with a combine.

Those 'experts' knew their stuff. They knew that an openly Gay player had virtually no chance of getting making a gameday roster. Regardless of stats.

Actually proof is sort of a big thing you need when you make an accusation

Just being the SEC DPOY doesn't mean anything. It's what can be measured. You know, stats.
And what experts said he was going to be a high draft pick and then changed their minds? And was it before or after the Combine?

The downgrade was within 3 hours of Sam coming out. I'd argue that it was BECAUSE Sam came out. But if there was any question as to whether the NFL insiders were downgrading him over a combine, it was answered by Tony Dungy and others, who openly campaigned to keep queers out of the NFL.

(10-22-2015 11:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Texans' owner supports firing people if they come out of the closet and not hiring them if they are Gay.

The great thinkers of the enlightenment, like Voltaire, spin in their graves every time you screw up the idea of liberty.

Quote:Sam was the SEC player of the year. He was projected to go high in the draft until he came out. Then the draft 'experts' immediately threw his chances in the trash.

And until he had a free agent level combine / pro-day[/quote]

You want facts...

Fact 1 - You can be Gay and get drafted -

The first *OPENLY GAY* player to enter the NFL draft was drafted. That does not wreak of discrimination. In fact it's *PROOF* you can be openly gay and drafted in the NFL. That's something only 3% of Division one players can aspire to.

Now if Sam went undrafted you might have half a leg to stand on. But he was not so shut up already.

Fact 2 - If Saint Louis was willing to draft a gay guy in the 7th why not draft him in the 6th, or the 3rd? Seems as if Saint Lous had no problem with Sam's sexuality. Instead the drafted him where a combine bomb gets drafted, near the end.

Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

(10-22-2015 12:08 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

Numbers don't lie

35,000 NFL game day players
0 openly Gay NFL game day players

10,000 in donations by NFL owners to continue to discriminate against Gay players

Millions in donations by NFL owners to political candidates that support the legality of discrimination against Gay players by the league based solely on their player's sexual orientation.

Draft experts dropped Sam by 200 places the night he came out.

(10-22-2015 12:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:08 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

Numbers don't lie

35,000 NFL game day players
0 openly Gay NFL game day players

10,000 in donations by NFL owners to continue to discriminate against Gay players

Millions in donations by NFL owners to political candidates that support the legality of discrimination against Gay players by the league based solely on their player's sexual orientation.

Draft experts dropped Sam by 200 places the night he came out.

He just sucks more as a football player than he does as chode sucking...

Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

(10-22-2015 12:02 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 11:36 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Texans' owner supports firing people if they come out of the closet and not hiring them if they are Gay.

The great thinkers of the enlightenment, like Voltaire, spin in their graves every time you screw up the idea of liberty.

Quote:Sam was the SEC player of the year. He was projected to go high in the draft until he came out. Then the draft 'experts' immediately threw his chances in the trash.

And until he had a free agent level combine / pro-day

You want facts...

Fact 1 - You can be Gay and get drafted -

The first *OPENLY GAY* player to enter the NFL draft was drafted. That does not wreak of discrimination. In fact it's *PROOF* you can be openly gay and drafted in the NFL. That's something only 3% of Division one players can aspire to.

Now if Sam went undrafted you might have half a leg to stand on. But he was not so shut up already.

Fact 2 - If Saint Louis was willing to draft a gay guy in the 7th why not draft him in the 6th, or the 3rd? Seems as if Saint Lous had no problem with Sam's . Instead the drafted him where a combine bomb gets drafted, near the end.
[/quote]

MY RESPONSE STARTS HERE.


The Rams had 3 of the last 5 draft picks. As the NFL was under massive pressure from inside to ensure that Sam never got on a gameday roster and under pressure to not look like the FCA bigots that they are in front of an American fanbase that doesn't support their discrimination. So they had a team that had absolutely no use for a DE draft Sam, knowing that he had no chance, regardless of his performance, of making the team..

Sam would have been drafted and would have made a gameday roster had he not come out of the closet.

The Texans support employment discrimination against Gay players. Apparently a majority of the NFL owners don't have a problem with that. How many other owners? Is it 30? 20? Who knows. But what we do know is there are a number of teams where a Gay player is unwelcome. Not just the Texans. But the Vikings too.

Let's look event by event at the combine

1 - Arm - 33.8 15/21 - Behind several linebackers being scouted for the
2 - 10 yard dash - 1.72 - DEAD LAST
3 - 3 Cone - 7.8 - DEAD LAST of the 18 who did the event
4 - Vertical - 25.5 - DEAD LAST
5 - Broad Jump - 114 - 17th of the 21 being scouted as DE's

(10-22-2015 12:17 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:08 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

Numbers don't lie

35,000 NFL game day players
0 openly Gay NFL game day players

10,000 in donations by NFL owners to continue to discriminate against Gay players

Millions in donations by NFL owners to political candidates that support the legality of discrimination against Gay players by the league based solely on their player's sexual orientation.

Draft experts dropped Sam by 200 places the night he came out.

He just sucks more as a football player than he does as chode sucking...

Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

0 out of 35,000 game day players that are openly Gay
0 openly Gay Coaches
0 openly Gay Assistants
0 openly Gay Scouts (that I'm aware of)
0 openly Gay Player Development staff (that I'm aware of)
100% of all openly Gay players that came out after being in the closet while in the league have attested that the league had a lot of anti gay bias
Pro Gay players tossed for being pro Gay
Anti Gay players and coaches celebrated even though they demean and hate Gay people
200 point drop in draft expert consensus the night of Sam coming out
Sam being drafted by a team that didn't need an DE
10,000 dollar donation by the Texans owner to protect his right to discrminate
Millions of dollars of donations by the Texans owner to candidates that support his right to discriminate
0 NFL owners willing to sanction the Texans over their open and overt support for discrimination against Gay players.

(10-22-2015 12:21 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Rams had 3 of the last 5 draft picks. As the NFL was under massive pressure from inside to ensure that Sam never got on a gameday roster and under pressure to not look like the FCA bigots that they are in front of an American fanbase that doesn't support their discrimination. So they had a team that had absolutely no use for a DE draft Sam, knowing that he had no chance, regardless of his performance, of making the team..

You have any evidence of this outside of circumstantial?

Quote:Sam would have been drafted and would have made a gameday roster had he not come out of the closet.

Based on what? He would not be the first guy to win a conference award that did not see an NFL game day roster. You've been shown his combine numbers.

Quote:The Texans support employment discrimination against Gay players.

Or they oppose other people being forced to open up their bathrooms to transgender. That is not the same thing.

(10-22-2015 12:28 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:21 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Rams had 3 of the last 5 draft picks. As the NFL was under massive pressure from inside to ensure that Sam never got on a gameday roster and under pressure to not look like the FCA bigots that they are in front of an American fanbase that doesn't support their discrimination. So they had a team that had absolutely no use for a DE draft Sam, knowing that he had no chance, regardless of his performance, of making the team..

You have any evidence of this outside of circumstantial?

Quote:Sam would have been drafted and would have made a gameday roster had he not come out of the closet.

Based on what? He would not be the first guy to win a conference award that did not see an NFL game day roster. You've been shown his combine numbers.

Quote:The Texans support employment discrimination against Gay players.

Or they oppose other people being forced to open up their bathrooms to transgender. That is not the same thing.

The law says nothing about bathrooms. It specifically allows the Texans to keep queers off their team. And the NFL has really no defense as to charges of discrimination against Gay persons.

History of exclusion.. Check
Open advocacy of exclusion... Check
Hostile work environment...Check

Most Americans watch Wheel of Fortune, not Mel Kipers' Draft Day. Try and start talking about a 40 time, when we start parading former NFL players, Chris Kluwe (who is already engaging in the HERO debate), and the fact that no openly Gay player has ever made the league in the leagues face...to the average American...and outside of the 20 percent of Americans that support discrimination, the NFL is going to look awful. And we're not going to let them off the hook this time.

The 2017 Super Bowl is currently set for Houston. What a wonderful stage to trash the NFL for tolerating discrimination. I really support HERO. But a nice consolation prize is to go after the 'anti-Gay bias' that is way too prevalent in professional sports. If I wanted to go after the NFL on being too tolerant of anti-Gay bias, I couldn't come up with a better scenario to start holding them accountable than this one.

And at least one NFL President is aware of this problem. But he can't do anything because his owner is opposed to Gay equality. We're very sorry, but words aren't going to protect his team or the league this time. Money has been given to support employment discrimination.

Issuing a press release isn't going to bail the NFL out this time. We want results. I suppose they can find one of their closeted players and try and ask him to come out. But that's unlikely because the league is filled with coaches, owners, and players that hate Gay people and want to discriminate against them. If I'm a NFL player, I'd not come out unless it was on the day I retired. The bias is really bad in the league. And the league fosters an anti-Gay climate.

And the ads that the Texans are paying for... are disgusting and hateful and will be seen as that by many Americans

(10-22-2015 12:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:17 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(10-22-2015 12:08 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

Numbers don't lie

35,000 NFL game day players
0 openly Gay NFL game day players

10,000 in donations by NFL owners to continue to discriminate against Gay players

Millions in donations by NFL owners to political candidates that support the legality of discrimination against Gay players by the league based solely on their player's sexual orientation.

Draft experts dropped Sam by 200 places the night he came out.

He just sucks more as a football player than he does as chode sucking...

Numbers dont lie...

40 Yard Dash
1. Jadeveon Clowney - 4.53 seconds
14. Zach Moore - 4.84 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.91 (Not Top 15)

Bench Press
1. Kaleb Ramsey - 36 reps
14. Daniel McCullers - 27 reps
Michael Sam - 17 reps (Not Top 15)

Vertical Jump
1. Howard Jones - 40.5"
15. Jason Bromley - 33.5"
Michael Sam - 25.5" (Not Top 15)

Broad Jump
1. Kareem Martin - 10'9"
14. Ra'Sheed Hageman - 9'6"
Michael Sam - 9'6" (Tied 14th)

3 Cone Drill
1. Kony Ealy - 6.83 seconds
15. Jonathan Newsome - 7.31 seconds
Michael Sam - 7.80 seconds (Not Top 15)

20 Yard Shuttle
1. Jackson Jeffcoat - 4.18 seconds
14. Chris Smith - 4.46 seconds
Michael Sam - 4.70 seconds (Not Top 15)

Yep, he sucks as a football player. He was Top 15 in only one category, and thats because he was tied at 14th place.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performer...osition=DL

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mich...id=2543734

0 out of 35,000 game day players that are openly Gay
0 openly Gay Coaches
0 openly Gay Assistants
0 openly Gay Scouts (that I'm aware of)
0 openly Gay Player Development staff (that I'm aware of)
100% of all openly Gay players that came out after being in the closet while in the league have attested that the league had a lot of anti gay bias
Pro Gay players tossed for being pro Gay
Anti Gay players and coaches celebrated even though they demean and hate Gay people
200 point drop in draft expert consensus the night of Sam coming out
Sam being drafted by a team that didn't need an DE
10,000 dollar donation by the Texans owner to protect his right to discrminate
Millions of dollars of donations by the Texans owner to candidates that support his right to discriminate
0 NFL owners willing to sanction the Texans over their open and overt support for discrimination against Gay players.

Any evidence to your claims Tom? Because you are making yourself look like a rambling lunatic. We have provided sources and numbers with links, but you still haven't provide a shred of evidence. You are clearly talking out of your ass.

So how many openly gay players enter the draft?

Do you want every gay player to come out?

How come Michael Sam didn't make a formal complaint against the St. Louis Rams or the NFL?


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