For the record, I'd gladly pour any of you a beer or bourbon at my tailgate, despite any ideological differences

On the one hand I am impressed by the places and positions that Withers has held. On the other hand I am not impressed by the results of his units while under his direction. The selection of some of his assistants is curious and I'm a little surprised by the lack of experience. Time will tell if they are/will be great coaches.

Saying the right things immediately after being hired and 9 months before a down of football is to be played doesn't do anything for me. Quite frankly I would expect that of anyone we hired.

Even with a limited timeframe he seems to be doing OK on the recruiting front, which is really the first tangible metric by which he can be judged. We'll get the full picture on that in a week or two.

It was time for a change in my opinion, so I am satisfied that there is a new direction/energy for the program. But Withers was a guy I really knew nothing about prior to being hired so his name alone doesn't get me excited. That said, I am definitely looking forward to the season as I always do and hope to see great things on the field and a lot of wins.

This comment is not directed at any individual poster.

I get wanting to "judge", "hold accountable", whatever you want to call it with Withers. I think with pay comes responsibility and Withers is paid well compared to most. What I don't get is the inconsistency of whom is held accountable. Let's hold everybody accountable.

JMU's culture seems to be one of "you're in" or "you're out" of the club. "In" means not accountable, "out" means accountable.

I hoped Alger, a JMU outsider would lean towards accountability for ALL. I don't know the university stage but I know the corporate stage...A new president that does not "shake up" upper management is often indecisive and usually gets plain vanilla results at best. It's hard to believe that EVERY SINGLE upper management position at JMU is lead by the best, right now and for the future growth of a "national" university in Alger's own words.

Some posters here want to go after Withers before he steps foot on the field, maybe these posters were personal friends of Mickey. I'm still shocked Mickey was fired by JMU, he was "In."

Judge Withers' results, fine, but let's be wiling to do the same for ALL others. This clearly is not the case in general.

(01-31-2014 10:55 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  This comment is not directed at any individual poster.

I get wanting to "judge", "hold accountable", whatever you want to call it with Withers. I think with pay comes responsibility and Withers is paid well compared to most. What I don't get is the inconsistency of whom is held accountable. Let's hold everybody accountable.

JMU's culture seems to be one of "you're in" or "you're out" of the club. "In" means not accountable, "out" means accountable.

I hoped Alger, a JMU outsider would lean towards accountability for ALL. I don't know the university stage but I know the corporate stage...A new president that does not "shake up" upper management is often indecisive and usually gets plain vanilla results at best. It's hard to believe that EVERY SINGLE upper management position at JMU is lead by the best, right now and for the future growth of a "national" university in Alger's own words.

Some posters here want to go after Withers before he steps foot on the field, maybe these posters were personal friends of Mickey. I'm still shocked Mickey was fired by JMU, he was "In."

Judge Withers' results, fine, but let's be wiling to do the same for ALL others. This clearly is not the case in general.

With that being in mind , do you think this hire will determine Bourne's future here at the university ?

(01-31-2014 01:02 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 10:55 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  This comment is not directed at any individual poster.

I get wanting to "judge", "hold accountable", whatever you want to call it with Withers. I think with pay comes responsibility and Withers is paid well compared to most. What I don't get is the inconsistency of whom is held accountable. Let's hold everybody accountable.

JMU's culture seems to be one of "you're in" or "you're out" of the club. "In" means not accountable, "out" means accountable.

I hoped Alger, a JMU outsider would lean towards accountability for ALL. I don't know the university stage but I know the corporate stage...A new president that does not "shake up" upper management is often indecisive and usually gets plain vanilla results at best. It's hard to believe that EVERY SINGLE upper management position at JMU is lead by the best, right now and for the future growth of a "national" university in Alger's own words.

Some posters here want to go after Withers before he steps foot on the field, maybe these posters were personal friends of Mickey. I'm still shocked Mickey was fired by JMU, he was "In."

Judge Withers' results, fine, but let's be wiling to do the same for ALL others. This clearly is not the case in general.

With that being in mind , do you think this hire will determine Bourne's future here at the university ?

Didn't Carr and Mike Battle find him?

(01-31-2014 01:04 PM)HolyCityDuke Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:02 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 10:55 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  This comment is not directed at any individual poster.

I get wanting to "judge", "hold accountable", whatever you want to call it with Withers. I think with pay comes responsibility and Withers is paid well compared to most. What I don't get is the inconsistency of whom is held accountable. Let's hold everybody accountable.

JMU's culture seems to be one of "you're in" or "you're out" of the club. "In" means not accountable, "out" means accountable.

I hoped Alger, a JMU outsider would lean towards accountability for ALL. I don't know the university stage but I know the corporate stage...A new president that does not "shake up" upper management is often indecisive and usually gets plain vanilla results at best. It's hard to believe that EVERY SINGLE upper management position at JMU is lead by the best, right now and for the future growth of a "national" university in Alger's own words.

Some posters here want to go after Withers before he steps foot on the field, maybe these posters were personal friends of Mickey. I'm still shocked Mickey was fired by JMU, he was "In."

Judge Withers' results, fine, but let's be wiling to do the same for ALL others. This clearly is not the case in general.

With that being in mind , do you think this hire will determine Bourne's future here at the university ?

Didn't Carr and Mike Battle find him?

That's what I heard , but Bourne's position is the athletic director. I look at him like the general manager of a professional team.

(01-31-2014 01:02 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 10:55 AM)Purplehazed Wrote:  This comment is not directed at any individual poster.

I get wanting to "judge", "hold accountable", whatever you want to call it with Withers. I think with pay comes responsibility and Withers is paid well compared to most. What I don't get is the inconsistency of whom is held accountable. Let's hold everybody accountable.

JMU's culture seems to be one of "you're in" or "you're out" of the club. "In" means not accountable, "out" means accountable.

I hoped Alger, a JMU outsider would lean towards accountability for ALL. I don't know the university stage but I know the corporate stage...A new president that does not "shake up" upper management is often indecisive and usually gets plain vanilla results at best. It's hard to believe that EVERY SINGLE upper management position at JMU is lead by the best, right now and for the future growth of a "national" university in Alger's own words.

Some posters here want to go after Withers before he steps foot on the field, maybe these posters were personal friends of Mickey. I'm still shocked Mickey was fired by JMU, he was "In."

Judge Withers' results, fine, but let's be wiling to do the same for ALL others. This clearly is not the case in general.

With that being in mind , do you think this hire will determine Bourne's future here at the university ?

I think Jeff Bourne is very comfortable and that he will retire at JMU period. He may make it to 25 years in the same job. I don't think Bourne's future at JMU is subject to "results." I think Jeff Bourne bleeds purple. I think Jeff Bourne bleeds Tom Yeager. I think Bourne reacts when told to react... I think he is a stand up guy. I see him is listed as a senior leader. I think he is a yes man. I think Bourne is a perfect fit for an half asleep athletic dept. where middle of the road results are "good enough" a la JMU right up to the day VCU, ODU and finally GMU forced Alger to commission the Carr Report a year plus late.

(01-31-2014 01:02 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  With that being in mind , do you think this hire will determine Bourne's future here at the university ?

I don't think it will. Even if Withers is a complete failure (which I don't think he will be), I think he was the best hire on paper. If the program fails, I think it'll be far more on Withers than on Bourne.
I think the total outlook of JMU athletics in the next few years will determine his fate. It would take many coaching firings due to lack of production for this to happen. Remember, he's not the "GM" of just the football/basketball programs, but baseball, field hockey, soccer, volleyball, swimming/diving, golf, etc. It's the TOTAL success that will either keep him his job or lose it. Conference realignment could also play a factor too.
I do feel that the next 2 years will determine his fate. If production suffers from football, men's basketball AND baseball Bourne could be in some hot water.

Will Alger ever change (anything)... Bourne to reporting directly to the president and allow the man to sink or swim on his own? How can Bourne be held accountable not able to take Coach Withers to the Joshua Wilton House for dinner on the company card without prior permission from the King?

(01-30-2014 09:45 PM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  For the record, I'd gladly pour any of you a beer or bourbon at my tailgate, despite any ideological differences

I mean I'd just prefer those jalapeños again, but that'll do

That can be arranged

(01-31-2014 01:57 PM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:02 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  With that being in mind , do you think this hire will determine Bourne's future here at the university ?

I don't think it will. Even if Withers is a complete failure (which I don't think he will be), I think he was the best hire on paper. If the program fails, I think it'll be far more on Withers than on Bourne.
I think the total outlook of JMU athletics in the next few years will determine his fate. It would take many coaching firings due to lack of production for this to happen. Remember, he's not the "GM" of just the football/basketball programs, but baseball, field hockey, soccer, volleyball, swimming/diving, golf, etc. It's the TOTAL success that will either keep him his job or lose it. Conference realignment could also play a factor too.
I do feel that the next 2 years will determine his fate. If production suffers from football, men's basketball AND baseball Bourne could be in some hot water.

Are we up to 3 JMU baseball fans on this board now? I think Bourne gets a "pass" on baseball unless Spanky misses the conference playoffs and Bourne doesn't fire him.

Men's basketball is ugly right now, and I'm not sure Brady is earning the contract extension. Bourne gets a C- here from me.

Brooks is great, but the best hire that I've seen recently is Dean. Doing the right things to keep Brooks and getting Dean = an A for women's sports.

Financially, football drives the department so it's really the only grade that matters given were men's basketball sits. We built a huge stadium that generated fan support, but we haven't won a playoff game since. Withers has to win OR we have to announce an FBS move. I think a move to ANY FBS conference would buy Bourne at least 3 years.

Regardless of the grades, I think Bourne should report directly to Alger. I hate having our athletic department on par with HR, Business Services, Budget Management, IT, and the Police Department. All are important functions at the university, but one of these kids just doesn't belong.

(01-29-2014 11:34 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  I pumped about the new staff. No clue how they will do but the air is energized around our football program. Everything we hear is positive. Morning workouts going well. Players excited about new head coach. Vad Lee and other good recruits being mentioned. I have not heard one negative thing from this new staff.

Why talk about the past? It's done. Time to look forward to a new season with Withers at the helm and a lot of young coaches ready to make their mark. I feel really good about next year. Good core of players left over and with a good recruiting class, we might find our Dukes contending again for a CAA title.

No reason to be negative at all right now. PW has it right. Let's get on board, get excited and support our new coach. JMU Nation needs to welcome the new staff and all of the recruits who might read this board. Come to JMU. We are crazy for football and passionate about our Dukes!

That's standard MO when a new coach is hired. So you get exited over a couple of positive interviews/press conferences and morning workouts? Umm...ok..

I don't care about words. I care about wins. I'll get excited if/when I see 8-3/6-2 (or in a 12 game season 9-3/6-2) + a playoff win. That is the minimum standard JMU, with its facilties & support, should acheive every season as long as its a playoff eligible I-AA, and a standard that hasn't met since 08'.

(02-01-2014 04:53 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 11:34 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  I pumped about the new staff. No clue how they will do but the air is energized around our football program. Everything we hear is positive. Morning workouts going well. Players excited about new head coach. Vad Lee and other good recruits being mentioned. I have not heard one negative thing from this new staff.

Why talk about the past? It's done. Time to look forward to a new season with Withers at the helm and a lot of young coaches ready to make their mark. I feel really good about next year. Good core of players left over and with a good recruiting class, we might find our Dukes contending again for a CAA title.

No reason to be negative at all right now. PW has it right. Let's get on board, get excited and support our new coach. JMU Nation needs to welcome the new staff and all of the recruits who might read this board. Come to JMU. We are crazy for football and passionate about our Dukes!

That's standard MO when a new coach is hired. So you get exited over a couple of positive interviews/press conferences and morning workouts? Umm...ok..

I don't care about words. I care about wins. I'll get excited if/when I see 8-3/6-2 (or in a 12 game season 9-3/6-2) + a playoff win. That is the minimum standard JMU, with its facilties & support, should acheive every season as long as its a playoff eligible I-AA, and a standard that hasn't met since 08'.

Pretty much a given you'll be the first donkey here beating your Mickey Matthews chest if we lose a 4th game next year. I sense you're even looking forward to it.

(02-01-2014 05:50 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 04:53 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 11:34 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  I pumped about the new staff. No clue how they will do but the air is energized around our football program. Everything we hear is positive. Morning workouts going well. Players excited about new head coach. Vad Lee and other good recruits being mentioned. I have not heard one negative thing from this new staff.

Why talk about the past? It's done. Time to look forward to a new season with Withers at the helm and a lot of young coaches ready to make their mark. I feel really good about next year. Good core of players left over and with a good recruiting class, we might find our Dukes contending again for a CAA title.

No reason to be negative at all right now. PW has it right. Let's get on board, get excited and support our new coach. JMU Nation needs to welcome the new staff and all of the recruits who might read this board. Come to JMU. We are crazy for football and passionate about our Dukes!

That's standard MO when a new coach is hired. So you get exited over a couple of positive interviews/press conferences and morning workouts? Umm...ok..

I don't care about words. I care about wins. I'll get excited if/when I see 8-3/6-2 (or in a 12 game season 9-3/6-2) + a playoff win. That is the minimum standard JMU, with its facilties & support, should acheive every season as long as its a playoff eligible I-AA, and a standard that hasn't met since 08'.

Pretty much a given you'll be the first donkey here beating your Mickey Matthews chest if we lose a 4th game next year. I sense you're even looking forward to it.

A 4th game if it was the playoffs to go 10-4 I would be fine with that.

Given that the 12 game schedules are the typical 11 game schedule + an additional easy, or at least should win OOC game:

9-3/6-2 + a playoff win would exceed anything the last 5 seasons, proving Withers was a good hire.

The below would roughly = what we've had over the last 5 seasons, meaning the jury would still be out for at least another season:
8-4/5-3 + a playoff win and loss, 9-5 overall, pretty much the same as 2011's 8-5.
7-5/4-4, no playoffs
6-6/3-5, no playoffs

5-7 or worse would mean it was a bad hire. That would = the worse record in 12 years going back to 02'.

Unlike a lot of others on here, I'm not going to judge Withers at JMU by press conferences, interviews, tweets, hired staff, morning workouts, recruits, what the players say about him, etc. I'm going to judge him by wins and losses.

In 2015 and beyond you can secondarily add players staying out of trouble, and academic results.

It's tough to judge the coaches on next year's results, whether good or bad. Installing new schemes, and the players aren't the recruits of this staff. 2015 and 2016 will be much more telling of the staff's efficacy.


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(02-01-2014 08:30 PM)brizzock Wrote:  It's tough to judge the coaches on next year's results, whether good or bad. Installing new schemes, and the players aren't the recruits of this staff. 2015 and 2016 will be much more telling of the staff's efficacy.


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MM has left Withers more talent to work with than Alex Wood left MM to work with in 99', and JMU managed to go 8-3/7-1 that season. There is enough talent for Withers to work with to go 8-3/6-2. Make that 9-3/6-2 with the extra OOC game.

agreed. It'll be another year or two before we see whether withers can do it with his own guys too.


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LOL

(02-01-2014 09:32 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 08:30 PM)brizzock Wrote:  It's tough to judge the coaches on next year's results, whether good or bad. Installing new schemes, and the players aren't the recruits of this staff. 2015 and 2016 will be much more telling of the staff's efficacy.


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MM has left Withers more talent to work with than Alex Wood left MM to work with in 99', and JMU managed to go 8-3/7-1 that season. There is enough talent for Withers to work with to go 8-3/6-2. Make that 9-3/6-2 with the extra OOC game.

That's not what MM said at the time. He earned his Mouth of the South reputation out of the gate that year when he said he couldn't understand how Wood didn't win with the talent on that team, and that they would make the playoffs that year.

And in comparison to the level of talent in the CAA today, MM has NOT left Withers the same kind of talent he inherited in 1999. On what would you base that statement?