(11-15-2013 05:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:43 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:33 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:31 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The reality is that Obamacare is the law of the land and whether or not it got off to the anticipated start is irrelevant.

It's here to stay. Time to get over it and move on.

So compassionate, now we know you really don't give a damn about people harmed by this catastrophe.

On the contrary. I care deeply about the 30 million people who don't have health insurance and the millions of people who go bankrupt because they have hospital bills that they can't pay.

For this reason, I am in favor of health reform. Unfortunately, the republicans chose not to play. I would have preferred a system created by both parties but I will settle for Obamacare.

Less people have insurance now than when the law went into effect. You only care about your ideology. You do not care about the people this law harmed.

The law has not even been fully implemented yet. When it is, I believe that it will be an improvement of our health system.

If it isn't then I will be the first to demand a better system. I will not however demand that we go back to what we had before because that isn't a solution.

Show me a republican with a solution and I will be happy to vote for him.

Pal, wake up. It's a train wreck. You cannot unscramble an egg. It failed. Further implementation will only accelerate the damage. You look absolutely ridiculous promoting it at this point. I know it's hard to accept. This was the main pillar of the liberal ideology.

(11-15-2013 05:52 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The law has not even been fully implemented yet. When it is, I believe that it will be an improvement of our health system.

It won't. Because it can't. It could work if and only if about 100 million people decided to act contrary to their best interests. But they won't, so it can't.

Quote:If it isn't then I will be the first to demand a better system. I will not however demand that we go back to what we had before because that isn't a solution.

Then you won't mind us holding you to that promise, will you? Tell us, how bad does it have to get before you will concede and demand something else?

Quote:Show me a republican with a solution and I will be happy to vote for him.

Bismarck system, like the best systems in the world. And I get accused of being a right-winger, so does that count?

By the way, also got accused of being a left-wing homosexual today in another thread, as best I can tell because I don't subscribe to white supremacist racism. I'm still not quite making that connection.

The Bismarck System would be fine with me.

If Obamacare doesn't insure more people and cost less than the old system, by the time he leaves office, then I will vote for whomever promises to improve ( not repeal) the system.

(11-15-2013 10:29 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

I think Cruz did what his heart and voters wanted him to do. I think he did the right thing and after the beating he took and the refusals of Reid and Obama to even consider modifying/delaying Obamacare, that in the minds of an educated voter Cruz now comes out the winner for being right all along.

As for the PR battle, the GOP really doesn't have a chance because of the liberal media. Something really big has to negatively impact the MSM before they will go negative on Obama & Co. Look at what's happening right now, the MSM is on top of Obamacare but not one of them is say the GOP was right all along. They will never give credit to the right.

I don't think the country is as partisan as this post suggests. The media has a liberal bias, yes. Unless you're referring to Cruz's constituents in Texas, which I can't speak to, I don't believe voters wanted him to force a shutdown. Did Cruz take his pay during the shutdown? I know a lot of republicans still did. Republicans are losing the independents bc they're too far right tea party politics. Democrats are naturally going to own the lower income class but it's the republicans and their self inflicted wounds that are alienating people that aren't registered republicans. When Cruz stood up for the 2nd amendment, I loved it. I'm a disabled vet, how do you think I felt when the shutdown interfered with the VA and when my fallen brethren weren't taken care of because of Washington politics? I can't stand obamacare, but here's the thing, win the elections and repeal it with something better or something that functions. In the meantime the people aren't pawns and shouldn't be treated as such.

(11-15-2013 05:58 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 10:29 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

I think Cruz did what his heart and voters wanted him to do. I think he did the right thing and after the beating he took and the refusals of Reid and Obama to even consider modifying/delaying Obamacare, that in the minds of an educated voter Cruz now comes out the winner for being right all along.

As for the PR battle, the GOP really doesn't have a chance because of the liberal media. Something really big has to negatively impact the MSM before they will go negative on Obama & Co. Look at what's happening right now, the MSM is on top of Obamacare but not one of them is say the GOP was right all along. They will never give credit to the right.

I don't think the country is as partisan as this post suggests. The media has a liberal bias, yes. Unless you're referring to Cruz's constituents in Texas, which I can't speak to, I don't believe voters wanted him to force a shutdown. Did Cruz take his pay during the shutdown? I know a lot of republicans still did. Republicans are losing the independents bc they're too far right tea party politics. Democrats are naturally going to own the lower income class but it's the republicans and their self inflicted wounds that are alienating people that aren't registered republicans. When Cruz stood up for the 2nd amendment, I loved it. I'm a disabled vet, how do you think I felt when the shutdown interfered with the VA and when my fallen brethren weren't taken care of because of Washington politics? I can't stand obamacare, but here's the thing, win the elections and repeal it with something better or something that functions. In the meantime the people aren't pawns and shouldn't be treated as such.

Your talking points are pre Barrack Obamacare calamity. The usual liberal talking points and shifting blame just won't work anymore. The left has to live with its new image. A lying leader and most unfortunate failed attempt at a health care system takeover.

In other words. Snap out of it. Accept it. Liberalism has taken a deadly blow.

(11-15-2013 06:02 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:58 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 10:29 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

I think Cruz did what his heart and voters wanted him to do. I think he did the right thing and after the beating he took and the refusals of Reid and Obama to even consider modifying/delaying Obamacare, that in the minds of an educated voter Cruz now comes out the winner for being right all along.

As for the PR battle, the GOP really doesn't have a chance because of the liberal media. Something really big has to negatively impact the MSM before they will go negative on Obama & Co. Look at what's happening right now, the MSM is on top of Obamacare but not one of them is say the GOP was right all along. They will never give credit to the right.

I don't think the country is as partisan as this post suggests. The media has a liberal bias, yes. Unless you're referring to Cruz's constituents in Texas, which I can't speak to, I don't believe voters wanted him to force a shutdown. Did Cruz take his pay during the shutdown? I know a lot of republicans still did. Republicans are losing the independents bc they're too far right tea party politics. Democrats are naturally going to own the lower income class but it's the republicans and their self inflicted wounds that are alienating people that aren't registered republicans. When Cruz stood up for the 2nd amendment, I loved it. I'm a disabled vet, how do you think I felt when the shutdown interfered with the VA and when my fallen brethren weren't taken care of because of Washington politics? I can't stand obamacare, but here's the thing, win the elections and repeal it with something better or something that functions. In the meantime the people aren't pawns and shouldn't be treated as such.

Your talking points are pre Barrack Obamacare calamity. The usual liberal talking points and shifting blame just won't work anymore. The left has to live with its new image. A lying leader and most unfortunate failed attempt at a health care system takeover.

In other words. Snap out of it. Accept it. Liberalism has taken a deadly blow.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. My original statement is in partial agreement with what I think you're saying. Obamacare is a failure and I think the right missed the opportunity to show the middle how bad it sucks and the failure of this administration bc of the shutdown. I'm definitely not a liberal.

(11-15-2013 04:55 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:53 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:48 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Saying it's a failure over and over again isn't going to make it so.

But keep on with the talk if it makes you feel better.

I'm still glad we did it. It was better than doing nothing.

How's the oxygen level up there in the cosmos?

Excellent. It allows me to tolerate the ranting about an entire overhaul of a health system that is being deemed a failure even after only a few months.

So, now a few months is only say, 45 of them? Really? How long would you suggest we let this toxic stew simmer?

Isn't is prudent to take preventative care measures? Or, if you detect a disease, say cancer, how long do you wait before trying treat it, eliminate it? 4 years? 5, perhaps? You continue to make no sense.

(11-15-2013 05:40 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I care deeply about the 30 million people who don't have health insurance and the millions of people who go bankrupt because they have hospital bills that they can't pay.

Millions of people go bankrupt because of hospital bills?

Millions = more than one million, so let's just say it's two million. That's one person out of every 150 people in the country. Now let's say the average family has 3 people in it - that's one out of every 50 families that go bankrupt because of hospital bills.

Do you still believe the story you told us?

For the record, the total number of bankruptcy filings is about 1 million per year. Medical expenses are the largest cause of personal bankruptcies, accounting for about half that total. That would not be how I would define "millions of people," but if you want to then go for it.

(11-15-2013 06:08 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 06:02 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:58 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 10:29 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

I think Cruz did what his heart and voters wanted him to do. I think he did the right thing and after the beating he took and the refusals of Reid and Obama to even consider modifying/delaying Obamacare, that in the minds of an educated voter Cruz now comes out the winner for being right all along.

As for the PR battle, the GOP really doesn't have a chance because of the liberal media. Something really big has to negatively impact the MSM before they will go negative on Obama & Co. Look at what's happening right now, the MSM is on top of Obamacare but not one of them is say the GOP was right all along. They will never give credit to the right.

I don't think the country is as partisan as this post suggests. The media has a liberal bias, yes. Unless you're referring to Cruz's constituents in Texas, which I can't speak to, I don't believe voters wanted him to force a shutdown. Did Cruz take his pay during the shutdown? I know a lot of republicans still did. Republicans are losing the independents bc they're too far right tea party politics. Democrats are naturally going to own the lower income class but it's the republicans and their self inflicted wounds that are alienating people that aren't registered republicans. When Cruz stood up for the 2nd amendment, I loved it. I'm a disabled vet, how do you think I felt when the shutdown interfered with the VA and when my fallen brethren weren't taken care of because of Washington politics? I can't stand obamacare, but here's the thing, win the elections and repeal it with something better or something that functions. In the meantime the people aren't pawns and shouldn't be treated as such.

Your talking points are pre Barrack Obamacare calamity. The usual liberal talking points and shifting blame just won't work anymore. The left has to live with its new image. A lying leader and most unfortunate failed attempt at a health care system takeover.

In other words. Snap out of it. Accept it. Liberalism has taken a deadly blow.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. My original statement is in partial agreement with what I think you're saying. Obamacare is a failure and I think the right missed the opportunity to show the middle how bad it sucks and the failure of this administration bc of the shutdown. I'm definitely not a liberal.

Because you are trying to spread the blame on to the GOP...as if they played a role in Obama's downfall. The GOP tried to save the American people from Obamacare. Any Independent who doesn't get that by now is basically a closeted Democrat.

Chicago Jesus is a proven liar and Cruz is a proven truth teller. Suck on that libs.

(11-15-2013 07:38 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  Chicago Jesus is a proven liar and Cruz is a proven truth teller. Suck on that libs.

Boom

(11-15-2013 07:24 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 06:08 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 06:02 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 05:58 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 10:29 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  I think Cruz did what his heart and voters wanted him to do. I think he did the right thing and after the beating he took and the refusals of Reid and Obama to even consider modifying/delaying Obamacare, that in the minds of an educated voter Cruz now comes out the winner for being right all along.

As for the PR battle, the GOP really doesn't have a chance because of the liberal media. Something really big has to negatively impact the MSM before they will go negative on Obama & Co. Look at what's happening right now, the MSM is on top of Obamacare but not one of them is say the GOP was right all along. They will never give credit to the right.

I don't think the country is as partisan as this post suggests. The media has a liberal bias, yes. Unless you're referring to Cruz's constituents in Texas, which I can't speak to, I don't believe voters wanted him to force a shutdown. Did Cruz take his pay during the shutdown? I know a lot of republicans still did. Republicans are losing the independents bc they're too far right tea party politics. Democrats are naturally going to own the lower income class but it's the republicans and their self inflicted wounds that are alienating people that aren't registered republicans. When Cruz stood up for the 2nd amendment, I loved it. I'm a disabled vet, how do you think I felt when the shutdown interfered with the VA and when my fallen brethren weren't taken care of because of Washington politics? I can't stand obamacare, but here's the thing, win the elections and repeal it with something better or something that functions. In the meantime the people aren't pawns and shouldn't be treated as such.

Your talking points are pre Barrack Obamacare calamity. The usual liberal talking points and shifting blame just won't work anymore. The left has to live with its new image. A lying leader and most unfortunate failed attempt at a health care system takeover.

In other words. Snap out of it. Accept it. Liberalism has taken a deadly blow.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. My original statement is in partial agreement with what I think you're saying. Obamacare is a failure and I think the right missed the opportunity to show the middle how bad it sucks and the failure of this administration bc of the shutdown. I'm definitely not a liberal.

Because you are trying to spread the blame on to the GOP...as if they played a role in Obama's downfall. The GOP tried to save the American people from Obamacare. Any Independent who doesn't get that by now is basically a closeted Democrat.

What you said is categorically false, I don't know how you comprehended that from what I wrote. I wrote, the republicans missed a huge opportunity spotlighting obama's failure bc of the shutdown. I don't know how you can misconstrue that point. On another note, I'd probably be more open to people's political positions before lambasting them with your myopic partisan position.

(11-15-2013 01:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 01:05 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 12:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Right now I'm getting that my only options are to be either racist or queer.

Religious = racist? You are truly a confused individual, and I will pray for your soul.

So, White America = White People = Religious Right = Christians = rural America. Got it.

I believe in America's values. Not white America's values. Not white people's values. Not the religious right's values, but yes to Christian values because I don't think the religious right fairly represents Christianity. And yes to rural America's values, too.

And not just no, but hell no, to liberation theology values or socialist values or communist values or Obama's values.

Owl, these dudes are Nucking Futs. I don't even read their posts anymore. No point. I advise you to do the same.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

(11-15-2013 10:22 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 01:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 01:05 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 12:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Right now I'm getting that my only options are to be either racist or queer.

Religious = racist? You are truly a confused individual, and I will pray for your soul.

So, White America = White People = Religious Right = Christians = rural America. Got it.

I believe in America's values. Not white America's values. Not white people's values. Not the religious right's values, but yes to Christian values because I don't think the religious right fairly represents Christianity. And yes to rural America's values, too.

And not just no, but hell no, to liberation theology values or socialist values or communist values or Obama's values.

Owl, these dudes are Nucking Futs. I don't even read their posts anymore. No point. I advise you to do the same.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

I remember a couple of years ago thinking that you were a crazy right-winger. Now you are one of the moderates in the room.

(11-15-2013 06:36 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:55 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:53 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:48 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Saying it's a failure over and over again isn't going to make it so.

But keep on with the talk if it makes you feel better.

I'm still glad we did it. It was better than doing nothing.

How's the oxygen level up there in the cosmos?

Excellent. It allows me to tolerate the ranting about an entire overhaul of a health system that is being deemed a failure even after only a few months.

So, now a few months is only say, 45 of them? Really? How long would you suggest we let this toxic stew simmer?

Isn't is prudent to take preventative care measures? Or, if you detect a disease, say cancer, how long do you wait before trying treat it, eliminate it? 4 years? 5, perhaps? You continue to make no sense.

Okay let's change the system. I'm willing to support anything that will improve the system we had before.

I just don't want to see us continue to kick the can down the road.

(11-16-2013 12:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 06:36 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:55 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:53 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 04:48 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Saying it's a failure over and over again isn't going to make it so.

But keep on with the talk if it makes you feel better.

I'm still glad we did it. It was better than doing nothing.

How's the oxygen level up there in the cosmos?

Excellent. It allows me to tolerate the ranting about an entire overhaul of a health system that is being deemed a failure even after only a few months.

So, now a few months is only say, 45 of them? Really? How long would you suggest we let this toxic stew simmer?

Isn't is prudent to take preventative care measures? Or, if you detect a disease, say cancer, how long do you wait before trying treat it, eliminate it? 4 years? 5, perhaps? You continue to make no sense.

Okay let's change the system. I'm willing to support anything that will improve the system we had before.

I just don't want to see us continue to kick the can down the road.

Yet you support a take over that will make the entire industry monumentally worse.

Why?

There is, quite literally, no way you can simutaneously insure tens of millions of new people and also bring costs down (as promised) or even control costs. Why is this so hard to figure out?

(11-16-2013 12:33 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 10:22 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 01:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 01:05 PM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 12:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Right now I'm getting that my only options are to be either racist or queer.

Religious = racist? You are truly a confused individual, and I will pray for your soul.

So, White America = White People = Religious Right = Christians = rural America. Got it.

I believe in America's values. Not white America's values. Not white people's values. Not the religious right's values, but yes to Christian values because I don't think the religious right fairly represents Christianity. And yes to rural America's values, too.

And not just no, but hell no, to liberation theology values or socialist values or communist values or Obama's values.

Owl, these dudes are Nucking Futs. I don't even read their posts anymore. No point. I advise you to do the same.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

I remember a couple of years ago thinking that you were a crazy right-winger. Now you are one of the moderates in the room.

Hey man, I'm a fiscal conservative and as socially moderate as my faith allows me to be. The only social issue I take a hard stand on is abortion. Aside from that I defer to the Constitution and the guiding principal of leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.

Positive Rep me and I'll vote for Obama in 2016

(11-16-2013 12:39 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Saying it's a failure over and over again isn't going to make it so.

But being a failure over and over again will, right?

Quote:Okay let's change the system. I'm willing to support anything that will improve the system we had before.

So I take it you are opposed to Obamacare?

If your social policy doesn't encourage the population to reproduce, it can't sustain itself over the long run and whats left wont implement a conservative fiscal policy. You are starting to see the end with the declining birth rates. Eventually, the economy won't be desirable enough for the Mexicans to fill the void. People have the right to make their own decisions, but we have a government that encourages drugs, birth control, homosexuality, dependency on parents into their late 20s, dependency on government cradle to grave and atheism. Being a "social moderate" means sitting by idly and allowing this to happen.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

At some point, the Republicans will have the presidency, the house, and the senate. Then Obamacare is toast.

And if it takes dirty political tricks to rescind it, so be it. That's how it was born, so that's how it may die.