The problem is that it relies upon massive numbers of people acting against their personal best interests, or else it cannot succeed.

(11-15-2013 08:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is that it relies upon massive numbers of people acting against their personal best interests, or else it cannot succeed.

Untill the penalty is more than the premiums, healthy people won't sign up. This is ZeroCares death rattle. I expect Zero to "Administrativly fix" that part of the law to prevent 0Care's total collapse.

Young people will either have to pay up, or China will own us.

(11-14-2013 10:56 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

Without the shutdown, Ken Cuccinelli is the next governor of Virginia.

The right needs to learn what the left understands--you can't get a thing done without winning elections. Everything republicans do right now should have one and only one goal in mind--winning the 2014 elections, meaning take control of the senate, expand control of the house, and add to governors and state legislatures controlled.

Ted Cruz is one of my senators, and I like him, but nobody's perfect and this was a major tactical and strategic error on his part. Even though he was right about Obamacare.

You are a full of it sometimes OWL. The workers had already been paid full pay for a 2 week vacation at election time... if ANYTHING the shutdown was a Cuccinelli advantage.

But, it makes a good excuse for the GOP to hide behind to cover the election fraud. Sadly, I bet you would support them if they were facing charges.

(11-15-2013 08:54 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 08:25 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The problem is that it relies upon massive numbers of people acting against their personal best interests, or else it cannot succeed.

Untill the penalty is more than the premiums, healthy people won't sign up. This is ZeroCares death rattle. I expect Zero to "Administrativly fix" that part of the law to prevent 0Care's total collapse.

Young people will either have to pay up, or China will own us.

But those are by no means the only people that have to act against their best interest for this to work. Doctors and other providers have to decide to provide more services for less money. More people than before have to decide to become doctors and other providers, knowing that it is a worse deal for them economically.

(11-14-2013 09:37 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  The ACA might be down, but it isn't out. The website is working better now. We will have to see how signups are going in the next few weeks. I think when people realize that there are policies out there that are actually better than what they currently have on the individual market the tide will turn.

176 in Louisiana so far, if that makes you feel any better... Bet they were all from Orleans and Caddo parishes too...

(11-15-2013 05:45 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  let's wait until it's fully implemented before calling it a failure

Damn you're naive...

(11-15-2013 09:08 AM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:56 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

Without the shutdown, Ken Cuccinelli is the next governor of Virginia.
The right needs to learn what the left understands--you can't get a thing done without winning elections. Everything republicans do right now should have one and only one goal in mind--winning the 2014 elections, meaning take control of the senate, expand control of the house, and add to governors and state legislatures controlled.
Ted Cruz is one of my senators, and I like him, but nobody's perfect and this was a major tactical and strategic error on his part. Even though he was right about Obamacare.

You are a full of it sometimes OWL. The workers had already been paid full pay for a 2 week vacation at election time... if ANYTHING the shutdown was a Cuccinelli advantage.
But, it makes a good excuse for the GOP to hide behind to cover the election fraud. Sadly, I bet you would support them if they were facing charges.

You're there, I'm not. But that's not what I'm seeing or hearing or reading from any news source--left or right. Almost said left, right, or center, but then realized that there's nobody in the center.

I see one side insisting on ideological purity and the other focused on winning elections--and it's pretty clear that the side focused on winning elections is also winning on the ideological purity issues. I don't care that much about the ideological purity issues, but I do care that my country not be turned over to the socialists and communists who are winning because of the focus on ideological purity.

If republicans are supposed to fight and win elections on social conservative "my way or the highway" stances, then why is it that McAuliffe did everything he could to make it about abortion and gay rights and contraception, and and ran up a huge lead doing so, and why is it that Cuccinelli cut into that lead massively when he made Obamacare the issue?

Without the shutdown, the Obamacare fiasco would have had the front page to itself for two more weeks. Would that have pushed Cooch over the top? Very likely. How many of those libertarian votes would he have gotten if he had not been portrayed as so far right on social issues? Enough to put him over the top? Very likely. Both of them together? You betcha.

Notice that I specifically said "portrayed as far right on social issues." That's not the same as actually being far right on social issues. Bit if republicans want to win in other than bright red states, they can't even say things that can be twisted out of context to imply "far right on social issues." Because if they say them, they will be used that way, and that will hurt more than it will help.

(11-15-2013 06:17 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Any idiot can post on this board and many do

Drink my piss and eat my sh*t, or pay me a lot of money.


That's not a very swell plan, pea nuts.

(11-15-2013 09:35 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You're there, I'm not. But that's not what I'm seeing or hearing or reading from any news source--left or right. Almost said left, right, or center, but then realized that there's nobody in the center.

Are you on meds?

I see one side insisting on ideological purity and the other focused on winning elections--and it's pretty clear that the side focused on winning elections is also winning on the ideological purity issues. I don't care that much about the ideological purity issues, but I do care that my country not be turned over to the socialists and communists who are winning because of the focus on ideological purity.

If republicans are supposed to fight and win elections on social conservative "my way or the highway" stances, then why is it that McAuliffe did everything he could to make it about abortion and gay rights and contraception, and and ran up a huge lead doing so, and why is it that Cuccinelli cut into that lead massively when he made Obamacare the issue?

Without the shutdown, the Obamacare fiasco would have had the front page to itself for two more weeks. Would that have pushed Cooch over the top? Very likely. How many of those libertarian votes would he have gotten if he had not been portrayed as so far right on social issues? Enough to put him over the top? Very likely. Both of them together? You betcha.

Notice that I specifically said "portrayed as far right on social issues." That's not the same as actually being far right on social issues. Bit if republicans want to win in other than bright red states, they can't even say things that can be twisted out of context to imply "far right on social issues." Because if they say them, they will be used that way, and that will hurt more than it will help.

So, you think White American should sacrifice their faith and beliefs to cater to the immoral and filthy left? I am willing to bet you that doesn't happen.

So what's the other option numb nuts? You tell me.

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

I think Cruz did what his heart and voters wanted him to do. I think he did the right thing and after the beating he took and the refusals of Reid and Obama to even consider modifying/delaying Obamacare, that in the minds of an educated voter Cruz now comes out the winner for being right all along.

As for the PR battle, the GOP really doesn't have a chance because of the liberal media. Something really big has to negatively impact the MSM before they will go negative on Obama & Co. Look at what's happening right now, the MSM is on top of Obamacare but not one of them is say the GOP was right all along. They will never give credit to the right.

I find the "White America" wording troubling if not downright offensive. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not in the habit of regularly donning white sheets. But those words are code for a set of beliefs that I reject summarily. If you truly hold those beliefs, I basically don't give a rat's ass what you think about anything else. Conservatives do not need racists clouding the picture.

I'm not sure what the meds comment means. All I can think of is that it's in regard to the "nobody in the center" comment. Perhaps the context was not as clear as I thought, and I should have stead more explicitly "no news source in the center." If you think there is one, then I'd be really interested in who is the source you think is in the center. If this is not responsive to your comment, then I have no idea what you meant by that.

My point is a simple one. You can worry more about ideological purity than winning elections or you can worry more about winning elections than ideological purity. In a democratic republic, you can't accomplish a thing without winning elections. So at the end of the day, your insistence on ideological purity is driving this country straight into the hands of socialists/communists like Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and their fellow travellers.

As far as catering to the filthy, immoral left, how is your approach working out on abortion? When did you get Roe v. Wade overturned? How is your approach working out on gay rights? How about drugs? Is your approach working anywhere? Looks to me like you have your talking points and they're winning all the battles.

(11-15-2013 10:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I find the "White America" wording troubling if not downright offensive. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not in the habit of regularly donning white sheets. But those words are code for a set of beliefs that I reject summarily. If you truly hold those beliefs, I basically don't give a rat's ass what you think about anything else. Conservatives do not need racists clouding the picture.

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR FREEKING MIND? White America, as in White People, aka Religious Right, aka Christians, aka rural America. You are a total freeking moron sometimes.


My point is a simple one. You can worry more about ideological purity than winning elections or you can worry more about winning elections than ideological purity. In a democratic republic, you can't accomplish a thing without winning elections. So at the end of the day, your insistence on ideological purity is driving this country straight into the hands of socialists/communists like Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and their fellow travellers.

If "America" would rather vote for the filth and empty promises than self worth, responsibility, and wholesomeness, then so be it.

The Tea Party (Cuccinelli & Gingrich type voters) aren't sacrificing our beliefs for a toned down version of filth and empty promises. I assure you.

If the "centrists" left republicans want to sell us out, to hell with them. I hope they get tarred and feather in public squares with the liberals when the economy comes crashing down. When the stuff hits the fan (we all know it's coming), the Tea Party is going to look like a bunch of prophets and people will come begging for our leadership.

(11-15-2013 10:29 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Ted Cruz would have been better served not try to shut down the government, and just let it fail. IMO the republicans lost a big pr battle by the shutdown and the much needed and deserved to the failure of the ACA.

I think Cruz did what his heart and voters wanted him to do. I think he did the right thing and after the beating he took and the refusals of Reid and Obama to even consider modifying/delaying Obamacare, that in the minds of an educated voter Cruz now comes out the winner for being right all along.

As for the PR battle, the GOP really doesn't have a chance because of the liberal media. Something really big has to negatively impact the MSM before they will go negative on Obama & Co. Look at what's happening right now, the MSM is on top of Obamacare but not one of them is say the GOP was right all along. They will never give credit to the right.

Couldn't have said that any better...

(11-15-2013 10:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I find the "White America" wording troubling if not downright offensive. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not in the habit of regularly donning white sheets. But those words are code for a set of beliefs that I reject summarily. If you truly hold those beliefs, I basically don't give a rat's ass what you think about anything else. Conservatives do not need racists clouding the picture.

I'm not sure what the meds comment means. All I can think of is that it's in regard to the "nobody in the center" comment. Perhaps the context was not as clear as I thought, and I should have stead more explicitly "no news source in the center." If you think there is one, then I'd be really interested in who is the source you think is in the center. If this is not responsive to your comment, then I have no idea what you meant by that.

My point is a simple one. You can worry more about ideological purity than winning elections or you can worry more about winning elections than ideological purity. In a democratic republic, you can't accomplish a thing without winning elections. So at the end of the day, your insistence on ideological purity is driving this country straight into the hands of socialists/communists like Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and their fellow travellers.

As far as catering to the filthy, immoral left, how is your approach working out on abortion? When did you get Roe v. Wade overturned? How is your approach working out on gay rights? How about drugs? Is your approach working anywhere? Looks to me like you have your talking points and they're winning all the battles.

White America referring to the whites in America... What "gay rights" are you speaking of? They can do everything normal people can.

(11-15-2013 11:18 AM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  What "gay rights" are you speaking of? They can do everything normal people can.

"Gay rights" would be the ability of homosexuals to do things that "normal people" don't want to. And don't look now, but you're losing that battle big time. At some point you have to follow the lessons of people like Patton and MacArthur, and fight the battles you can win instead of getting your troops killed in battles that you can't win.

OWL appears to be a gay Conservative. Poor guy, nobody loves him.

Dr. Ben Carson 2016 Wrote:There are a group of people who would like to silence everybody and have everybody go along to get along, but that's not going to be very helpful for us in the long run... Somebody has to be courageous enough to actually stand up to the bullies

(11-15-2013 10:49 AM)Jerry Falwell Wrote:  

(11-15-2013 10:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I find the "White America" wording troubling if not downright offensive. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not in the habit of regularly donning white sheets. But those words are code for a set of beliefs that I reject summarily. If you truly hold those beliefs, I basically don't give a rat's ass what you think about anything else. Conservatives do not need racists clouding the picture.

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR FREEKING MIND? White America, as in White People, aka Religious Right, aka Christians, aka rural America. You are a total freeking moron sometimes.


My point is a simple one. You can worry more about ideological purity than winning elections or you can worry more about winning elections than ideological purity. In a democratic republic, you can't accomplish a thing without winning elections. So at the end of the day, your insistence on ideological purity is driving this country straight into the hands of socialists/communists like Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and their fellow travellers.

If "America" would rather vote for the filth and empty promises than self worth, responsibility, and wholesomeness, then so be it.

The Tea Party (Cuccinelli & Gingrich type voters) aren't sacrificing our beliefs for a toned down version of filth and empty promises. I assure you.

If the "centrists" left republicans want to sell us out, to hell with them. I hope they get tarred and feather in public squares with the liberals when the economy comes crashing down. When the stuff hits the fan (we all know it's coming), the Tea Party is going to look like a bunch of prophets and people will come begging for our leadership.

I know a lot of black and hispanic Christians...

I'm sorry, but this thread has taken a turn that is just f-ing nuts.

Right now I'm getting that my only options are to be either racist or queer.

I'll pass on both.

And the sad thing is, I agree that Obamacare is a cluster***. And always will be. It can't possibly work.

Gay want to be a protected class. That is Gay rights.

Sounds like the Silent Majority may be coming back.