(04-26-2013 09:58 AM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  

(04-25-2013 03:49 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  how about Pioneer the conference network idea that the PAC tried to duplicate, that the SEC is now trying to duplicate and that the ACC wants to duplicate?...

He1nous -

I enjoy reading your posts; however, the bwunjee followed the Mtn West in developing its own conference network. Yours is fantastically successful, and ours was terminated recently. The record shows, tho, that the MWC was the first D1 conference to set up a broadcast channel for its sports.

Carry on...

True enough. I dont know all that much about the MWN. Did the conference cover all the costs or did they form up a partnership on it too? CBS?

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

(04-26-2013 08:42 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  The big 10 definitely is at a disadvantage in terms of recruiting grounds (relative to the other major conferences). But that is about their only disadvantage, and they have and will continue overcome that with all of their advantages.

Adding New Jersey and Maryland and bringing Philadelphia in from being a border city to being surrounded by Big Ten territory, the new recruiting grounds may be behind Ohio but would be equal to or ahead of Illinois.

And its not Spring Football territory, so there will be more diamonds in the rough than in SEC country, which is an area of recruiting where a grass roots network of established contacts on the ground is essential for recruiting success.

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

(04-27-2013 11:46 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 08:42 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  The big 10 definitely is at a disadvantage in terms of recruiting grounds (relative to the other major conferences). But that is about their only disadvantage, and they have and will continue overcome that with all of their advantages.

Adding New Jersey and Maryland and bringing Philadelphia in from being a border city to being surrounded by Big Ten territory, the new recruiting grounds may be behind Ohio but would be equal to or ahead of Illinois.

And its not Spring Football territory, so there will be more diamonds in the rough than in SEC country, which is an area of recruiting where a grass roots network of established contacts on the ground is essential for recruiting success.

PA and OH have always been anchor states for the Big10 in regards to recruiting. NJ turns out some good players.

As far as being more diamonds in the rough than in SEC country. I simply disagree with that. Every school in the SEC has their share of 3 star recruits.

(04-27-2013 01:59 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  As far as being more diamonds in the rough than in SEC country. I simply disagree with that. Every school in the SEC has their share of 3 star recruits.

If you are thinking of 3 star recruits as prospective diamonds in the rough, that pretty much confirms what I said.

(04-27-2013 02:07 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 01:59 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  As far as being more diamonds in the rough than in SEC country. I simply disagree with that. Every school in the SEC has their share of 3 star recruits.

If you are thinking of 3 star recruits as prospective diamonds in the rough, that pretty much confirms what I said.

That's not exactly what I said. If we want to get into a long drawn out discussion on recruiting we can.

(1) diamonds in the rough are few and far between at the big boy level. So few and far between I'm not sure it even merits a serious discussion.

(2) big boy FB programs are not built on these type of players.

(3) if you're looking at players below the three star grade (for whatever that means) and counting on those types to make significant impact just be prepared to see consistent losing and coaching turnover.

Again, the so called diamond in the roughs are few and far between at the HIGHEST LEVEL. Now if one does not aspire to be get to the HIGHEST LEVEL and compete for championship consistently at that level I guess the so called diamond in the roughs might be OK.


So let me see....85 scholarships per team per year X 14 conference teams comes to 2,125 scholarship players each season and if each team brings in 20/25 new recruits each season 280/350 to maintain 85.....what percentage of that 280/350 new recruits per conference each season are so called diamond in the roughs? better yet take it down to lets say the top 5 programs out of a BIG BOY conference what percentage of the 100/125 new recruits would qualify as so called diamond in the roughs?

I'm perfectly aware some kids fly under the radar but when you get to the HIGHEST LEVEL it isn't very many as an overall percentage. BIG BOY WINNING FB requires depth of two deep minimum without much drop-off at just about every position, scholarships usually are wasted on projects at the HIGHEST LEVEL. Now on the other had some might be wasted on a stud with questionable character.


If we want to now take the discussion to the next level kids below the blue chippers for geographic regions we can but I don't really have the time tonight to get into it but I can make time of the next few day's to. We can even take it to the below the so called three level kids if you want. I would just caution you first to keep in mind the sheer volume of 2/3 star types in Florida/Georgia/Texas and all points in between.

(04-27-2013 05:17 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  I would just caution you first to keep in mind the sheer volume of 2/3 star types in Florida/Georgia/Texas and all points in between.

Yes, that is the point after all ~ a two star player in SEC country is highly unlikely to be much more, as from Pop Warner on through high school fall and spring football, the odds are that if he's short of help, its on the books rather than on the field, which I recall from the time I was at UTK was often the job of the JUCO's to have a go at correcting or not as the case may be.

And regarding your blustering about BIG BOY FOOTBALL, I'll leave it there, as it seems you are well into a sixpack, and perhaps not the first of the day.

(04-27-2013 05:56 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 05:17 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  I would just caution you first to keep in mind the sheer volume of 2/3 star types in Florida/Georgia/Texas and all points in between.

Yes, that is the point after all ~ a two star player in SEC country is highly unlikely to be much more, as from Pop Warner on through high school fall and spring football, the odds are that if he's short of help, its on the books rather than on the field, which I recall from the time I was at UTK was often the job of the JUCO's to have a go at correcting or not as the case may be.

And regarding your blustering about BIG BOY FOOTBALL, I'll leave it there, as it seems you are well into a sixpack, and perhaps not the first of the day.

You just don't get it....LOL doesn't matter to me one way or the other. Oh, and I don't drink either.....LOL

two stars are likely to end up at the CUSA level and so forth.

A two star in PA/OH/NJ is no more likely to be a star in the Big10 either...Duh! Many times JUCO's (but not always) are taken because new coaches have to take a few risk rebuilding, then other times even the JUCO ranks has some blue chip players, the JUCO ranks also has lots of players that can add to the depth chart. You have proven to me that you obviously don't have a clue about recruiting.


Recruiting is not based on Rivals or whoever either...Coaches from each staff are designated to cover certain geographic regions.....A Lot SEC schools even have someone to specifically cover California and others to cover the entire Big10 foot print as well, the flagship programs of the Big10 do the same thing. If there's a players out there its a good chance these coaching staffs know about them. I can guarantee you they don't rely on the on line recruiting services. Now on the other hand there are some out there fans know nothing about that have the real info on recruiting and I can tell you it cost alot more than 10 dollars a month for this information.

Whatever the case a great majority of players end up at a program from the area and region they come from. It's not rocket science some regions just have better players and more of them. You can try until your blue in the face to spin it but I can guarantee its not going to change to current make up of recruiting and long term trends...so keep trying....LOL

I'll bet you this much...you watch and see if Urban Myer doesn't try to make major inroads into the south. Why would he do that? Duh! because that's where a majority of the ELITE talent resides east of the Ms River. He'll try to get the best from the Big10 region as well. He knows the deal and has lived it.

Look, pay attention....the Big10 footprint has some blue chip players and alos some very talented players, they just don't have as many or enough to stack 7 or 8 teams year in year out with that kind of talent.


Why don't you give me your definition of exactly what Big Boy FB is at the D1 level.

(04-27-2013 01:42 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

Ok,I get it. Sorry I wasnt sharp enough to catch the sarcasm. Didnt mean to jump all over you.

(04-27-2013 01:42 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

Depends where you are. Notre Dame and Penn State are also very big upstate at least for football. Syracuse definitely has a big lead in basketball.

(04-28-2013 01:42 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 01:42 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

Depends where you are. Notre Dame and Penn State are also very big upstate at least for football. Syracuse definitely has a big lead in basketball.

You would be suprised how little of a presence PSU has upstate. Yes, there are some fans, but not a ton. There are Notre Dame fans in upstate NY (just like everywhere else in America) but SU dominates the upstate, even in football.

(04-28-2013 01:42 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 01:42 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

Depends where you are. Notre Dame and Penn State are also very big upstate at least for football. Syracuse definitely has a big lead in basketball.

I would think that the Southern Tier of NYS would have a larger percentage of Penn State fans than the rest of Upstate since its near the border of Pennsylvania. But that can also be said in Northeastern PA regarding Syracuse as well.
But Syracuse still is the dominant team in the Southern Tier. I dont see any larger percentage of support for ND there than anywhere else in Upstate.

(04-26-2013 02:42 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I was surprised they didn't add Missouri.

Couldn't get them.

(04-28-2013 08:55 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 01:42 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 01:42 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

Depends where you are. Notre Dame and Penn State are also very big upstate at least for football. Syracuse definitely has a big lead in basketball.

I would think that the Southern Tier of NYS would have a larger percentage of Penn State fans than the rest of Upstate since its near the border of Pennsylvania. But that can also be said in Northeastern PA regarding Syracuse as well.
But Syracuse still is the dominant team in the Southern Tier. I dont see any larger percentage of support for ND there than anywhere else in Upstate.

So the B1G is betting that more New York fans will now follow a New Jersey team than would have followed a New York team like Syracuse if previously invited into the B1G?

(04-28-2013 11:50 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  So the B1G is betting that more New York fans will now follow a New Jersey team than would have followed a New York team like Syracuse if previously invited into the B1G?

If you were to rephrase that to 'New York Metropolitan Area' fans, which includes Newark and a huge chunk of densely populated northern New Jersey, then yes, I think that would be a pretty good bet too.

FYI: Syracuse's campus is farther away from NYC than Maryland's. seriously.

They are not even close to being the "dominate" college program here.

(04-28-2013 08:55 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-28-2013 01:42 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  

(04-27-2013 01:42 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 10:31 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 03:02 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Assuming the numbers are accurate:

Big10 footprint 103,130,610 (bolstered the addition of Rutgers and the NYC/NJ area, a place college football isn’t exactly the top game in town and has TON of pro competition in all sports)
This footprint also gives them the entire state of NY even though Rutgers is in NJ.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but tv numbers would paint a very different but accurate picture. There maybe a few people in NYC that may care about Rutgers. But there is no one in Upstate NY that cares about Rutgers. You might as well say that the Acc controls the entire State of New Jersey because they have Syracuse in the fold. Or that the American controls the entire State of Kentucky because they have Cinci, and Cinci is right on the border of Kentucky.

I should have clarified and been more clear...I was doing nothing more than giving them the benefit of the doubt....I was being semi sarcastic about giving Rutgers the entire state of NY.

Personally I would think Syracuse would be the top team for NY probably by a significant margin.



Again, I was being semi sarcastic.


I know very well a SUPER SUPER MAJORITY of state schools carry the states, Not urban city schools. It's always going to be that way.

Depends where you are. Notre Dame and Penn State are also very big upstate at least for football. Syracuse definitely has a big lead in basketball.

I would think that the Southern Tier of NYS would have a larger percentage of Penn State fans than the rest of Upstate since its near the border of Pennsylvania. But that can also be said in Northeastern PA regarding Syracuse as well.
But Syracuse still is the dominant team in the Southern Tier. I dont see any larger percentage of support for ND there than anywhere else in Upstate.

I lived in Binghamton for a while and yea there is a good number of Penn State fans for football. I also remember a lot of ND fans personally. Syracuse of course had a good number of fans. Granted I remember more Syracuse fans when I first moved in and then it dropping off when Syracuse took a down turn (sort of like Bills fans there were a lot more when I moved in than when I left for college). Basketball is another story of course as Syracuse is very popular for that sport.

(04-28-2013 09:54 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(04-26-2013 02:42 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I was surprised they didn't add Missouri.

Couldn't get them.

Didn't want them when they could get them, then when they did need a 14th, Missouri was already in the SEC and so off the table.