(04-30-2013 07:39 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  People are not leaving in droves from the North. Are people leaving? Yes, but the numbers are a few thousand leaving vs the millions staying. The people leaving are mostly retiree's or people who don't have jobs. Yes a lot of industry opened up in the South but the windfalls that Corporations thought they would receive are not panning out as they thought. The disparity is evening out and the North is slowly coming back around.

Anyone can make an overexaggerated internet claim and then afterwards say it is fact and cant be disputed when in reality the numbers do not show what is being stated.

Yes the south is SEC turf, and yes footballers start a an extremely early age in the South and they play TWO seasons a year of football at that early age. The kids in the north are more well rounded in the sports they play at an early age and the few that do play pee wee leagues and get that early start are much lower in number.

There are some very real cultural differences between the North and South in this regard and weather plays a vital role in that. So yes it does have a major affect on football. The Big Ten is going to have to wake the F up to that reality and start spending it's big money on recruiting. The NCAA just opened the door for them. No longer do they have to focus all their recruiting ability on maintaining their usual recruiting spots from their regional rivals. Now they can spend all that money on that recruiting plus they can expand with increased recruiting funds to reach out to new areas to show off their schools.

I showed off Big Ten schools to two up and coming prospects from California and they had NO idea what was going on out East. They were actually extremely impressed. The Big Ten needs to spend some damn money, they have been VERY conservative in spending considering how much they make.

All these people from the South though that are misrepresenting the numbers and the situation in the North are simply a joke though. You don't know what you are talking about. Millions of people are getting along just fine up North. Many economies that were struggling are now going just fine. Of course there are cities like Detroit that get focused upon. Of course they do! It is a more interesting story. People, for some reason, like hearing about the bad **** rather than the good ****. I guess it makes them feel better about their situation or something.


Just get ready for when the Big Ten takes full advantage of the new NCAA rules regarding recruiting. Even Urban Meyer said he is going to ask for 8 times the current funds so that he can compete. I really don't think most people understand the enormity of what the NCAA did by changing those rules and opening the Gates.

One thing is absolutely true that you said…..anyone can make an over exaggerated internet claim, IN FACT YOU JUST DID EXACTLY THAT.


This is all I know:

The census numbers are what they are.

The BCS championships are what they are.

The recruiting hotbeds by region are what they are.

The NFL draft numbers are what they are.

The business climates by geographic region are what they are.

Business taxes and regulations are what they are for each state.

Auto bailouts seem to be for the North, not the south. A LOt of cars are built in the South now you know, WONDER WHY THAT IS?

The population shifts are what they are. The EC was pointed out to show population trends, NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS.

Some regions are growing at faster rate than others.

The right to work states vs union states are what they are.

The federal stimulus money has propped up a great many cities/states.

To ignore the plight of Detroit and brush it aside as nothing more than an afterthought is a monumental mistake. Detroit at one time was Jewell of a city with a lot of standing both regionally and nationally.


I could care less one way or the other but I STAND 100% BEHIND what I’ve said, doesn’t matter to me if anyone agrees or not.




To the point of for everybody get ready for the Big10 to start taking advantages of the new NCAA rules regarding recruiting and MOST PEOPLE DON’T UNDERSTAND what the NCAA did by changing the rules and opening the gates.

(1) People do understand
(2) Pay very close attention OK…..THE BIG10 IS NOT GOING TO BE THE ONLY CONFERENCE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE RULE CHANGES.
(3) Everybody is not going to just stop what they are doing and lay down just so the BIG10 can catch up
(4) The Big 10 is not just going to magically start going into Florida/Texas/Georgia and start cleaning house. In fact it’s not ever going to happen on a grand scale.


Now, I noticed you mentioned you had showed off Big10 schools two up and coming California kids and they did not have a clue about what goes on in the East.

(1) What exactly were you showing these kids? Are these kids athletes?
(2) Were they FB/BB recruits?
(3) Why were you showing them multiple schools?
(4) I bet they may not know much about the East coming from California which stands to reason. Wonder if they know about SEC FB?
(5) Assuming these are players, what level of players, what class are they in, what schools regardless of Conference are recruiting them?

(05-01-2013 01:19 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:24 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  With NAFTA & CAFTA in place, the companies that are moving south for cheap labor and just going to keep going south across the Rio Grande into Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama since they can mfg their products there are ship them into the states tariff free. Panama is almost totally devoid of income taxation.

Devaluing labor is a losing zero sum game.

Companies that help retailers and small manufacturers and distributors grow brand loyalty and enhance the customer experience are growing and adding staff. That is one of the key segments in the economic recovery. Amazon(Living Social), Belly, Grub Hub, Restaurant.com .

Not talking about devaluing labor. Talking about a fair wage. Companies that have to pay high-end wages have already lost the economic war. Worried about NAFTA? Try worrying about China. That's a losing zero sum game. Enough about this can of worms I opened. Let's move on.

The auto makers have rebounded tremendously since the 08 Bush auto bailout and one of the most successful retailers in Costco who pays the highest wages in the industry and offers the best benefits in retail. Starbucks continues to grow profitably and provides some form of healthcare for most if not all their employees. You don't have to cut wages or offer healthcare that none of your employees can afford like WalMart to be profitable.

The Right to Work for Less States have picked up jobs but on average their unemployment rates are still higher than the states that have a higher percentage of Union membership.

(05-01-2013 09:09 AM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  Auto bailouts seem to be for the North, not the south. A LOt of cars are built in the South now you know, WONDER WHY THAT IS?

Where'd you get the notion that the Auto bailouts were for the North, not the South? The Japanese auto makers were strongly in favor of the bailout, since GM and Chrysler going down would have taken a number of component makers with them, which would have increased the production cost at the US assembly plants of the Japanese automakers. Plus the conversion of the lesser depression into another great depression would have really messed up their sales prospects.

Devaluing labor usually ends up in situations like we saw in Bangladesh, where workers are paid next to nothing, and work in deplorable conditions, often to the detriment...

http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-building...23478.html

In West Virginia, coal company stores and housing is still well remembered by old timers. It was situations like what happened in Bangladesh that led to unions being created in the first place...

(05-01-2013 11:49 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Devaluing labor usually ends up in situations like we saw in Bangladesh, where workers are paid next to nothing, and work in deplorable conditions, often to the detriment...

http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-building...23478.html

In West Virginia, coal company stores and housing is still well remembered by old timers. It was situations like what happened in Bangladesh that led to unions being created in the first place...

Unions were created mainly for workers suffering terrible working environments. I am not saying a person should work for minimum wage, but I remember the "CAT" plant going out on strike in the middle of the winter because of a wage fight. The averaqe wage at that plant was around $32.00 an hour. And on the healthcare note, when the big northern companies are able to pay a $2000 fine per worker to get out of the health care support business, we will see how many workers continue to be provided this commodity... the train is coming folks...

(05-01-2013 12:43 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

The coal miners really did need a union, Bit. My brother in law just retired after 37 years in the Illinois coal mines. Some of the toughest and nicest folks on earth.

(05-01-2013 09:44 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 01:19 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:24 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  With NAFTA & CAFTA in place, the companies that are moving south for cheap labor and just going to keep going south across the Rio Grande into Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama since they can mfg their products there are ship them into the states tariff free. Panama is almost totally devoid of income taxation.

Devaluing labor is a losing zero sum game.

Companies that help retailers and small manufacturers and distributors grow brand loyalty and enhance the customer experience are growing and adding staff. That is one of the key segments in the economic recovery. Amazon(Living Social), Belly, Grub Hub, Restaurant.com .

Not talking about devaluing labor. Talking about a fair wage. Companies that have to pay high-end wages have already lost the economic war. Worried about NAFTA? Try worrying about China. That's a losing zero sum game. Enough about this can of worms I opened. Let's move on.

The auto makers have rebounded tremendously since the 08 Bush auto bailout and one of the most successful retailers in Costco who pays the highest wages in the industry and offers the best benefits in retail. Starbucks continues to grow profitably and provides some form of healthcare for most if not all their employees. You don't have to cut wages or offer healthcare that none of your employees can afford like WalMart to be profitable.

The Right to Work for Less States have picked up jobs but on average their unemployment rates are still higher than the states that have a higher percentage of Union membership.

The Auto makers have rebounded but make no mistake it did happen on their own. What happens the next time and it’ll be a next time? Do we just keep bailing them out over and over and over? This is a serious question that must be answered. Starbucks, Cosco, whatever.....Obviously you don't have a clue about overhead and bottom line. Do you happen to have the HARD numbers on what these employees pay for insurance? What percentage comes out of the check each and every week of the hourly and low level salary employee....for a single plan or a family plan and what kind of coverage they get? If you think Cosco and those types are just saying hey guys we are going to be SUPER GENEROUS and pick up all the cost, don't sweat it you must be freaking crazy.

Now all this right to work for less BS.....what exactly are you saying? work for less of what? that is the exact kind of attitude that any small or large business looking to expand wants no part of.

Can you answer me straight up why Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, and Honda chose to build assy plants in the South as opposed to the North? If your truly honest you know why.

Are these companies hosing employees as you seem to think? Is Boeing going to hose the good folks of South Carolina when they start up? Are these employees going to be working for less in the grand scheme of things?

Let me explain something to you and pay attention. You give a man/woman 20.00 hr in the south they’ll literally give you their heart and soul, absolutely everything they have. You give a union worker 35.00 hr to do the exact same job and what do they do? Go out at break, crack a beer open, fire up a joint, and complain the company is hosing them…..LOL

Look, a Husband and Wife in the south can combine and earn 30.00/40.00 and hr and be content and happy and appreciative as any people you’ll find in this great country….raise a family and buy more square footage of a home than other areas and save for retirement and believe it or not have HEALT INSURANCE for the family……IF YOU CALL THAT WORKING FOR LESS YOU GO RIGHT AHEAD AND AT THE SAME TIME KEEP COMPLAING, it isn’t going to change a thing.


Spare me the work for less BS. This country and the states combined have enough regulations and labor laws on the books it would take a lifetime to read them all. This isn’t the 1940’s and 50’s.

(05-01-2013 12:51 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 12:43 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

The coal miners really did need a union, Bit. My brother in law just retired after 37 years in the Illinois coal mines. Some of the toughest and nicest folks on earth.

I knew plenty of miners as a kid, and a fellow I grew up with has been a miner for over 35 years now. I agree with you about miners, and their union. IMO it's the only union that still serves its original purpose...

(05-01-2013 10:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Where'd you get the notion that the Auto bailouts were for the North, not the South? The Japanese auto makers were strongly in favor of the bailout, since GM and Chrysler going down would have taken a number of component makers with them, which would have increased the production cost at the US assembly plants of the Japanese automakers. Plus the conversion of the lesser depression into another great depression would have really messed up their sales prospects.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night or are you a global supply chain executie? I think neither.

And the great depression argument is total BS. People must not have a clue or know the history of the GREAT DEPRESSION.

(05-01-2013 11:49 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Devaluing labor usually ends up in situations like we saw in Bangladesh, where workers are paid next to nothing, and work in deplorable conditions, often to the detriment...

http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-building...23478.html

In West Virginia, coal company stores and housing is still well remembered by old timers. It was situations like what happened in Bangladesh that led to unions being created in the first place...

Are you seriously saying labor in the South is devalued? I certainly hope you aren’t comparing work conditions in the South to Bangladesh. If you think the region of the Southeaster US is like some third world poor country you must be totally ignorant and live in a bubble. I’m taking it you didn’t mean it like it sounded.



In fact work conditions in the South are as good as anywhere and I would venture to say there is certainly a more value added workforce.



The coal mine industry might be the exception because of the health hazards along with the work itself. I have no issue with that. But if your seriously thinking Auto workers and such face the same kind of conditions you must be insane.

(05-01-2013 03:13 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 10:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Where'd you get the notion that the Auto bailouts were for the North, not the South? The Japanese auto makers were strongly in favor of the bailout, since GM and Chrysler going down would have taken a number of component makers with them, which would have increased the production cost at the US assembly plants of the Japanese automakers. Plus the conversion of the lesser depression into another great depression would have really messed up their sales prospects.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night or are you a blobal supply chain executie?

Even the French get it....they are opening up a brand new air bus assembly plant in Mobile, Al.

(05-01-2013 03:16 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:49 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Devaluing labor usually ends up in situations like we saw in Bangladesh, where workers are paid next to nothing, and work in deplorable conditions, often to the detriment...

http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-building...23478.html

In West Virginia, coal company stores and housing is still well remembered by old timers. It was situations like what happened in Bangladesh that led to unions being created in the first place...

Are you seriously saying labor in the South is devalued? I certainly hope you aren’t comparing work conditions in the South to Bangladesh. If you think the region of the Southeaster US is like some third world poor country you must be totally ignorant and live in a bubble. I’m taking it you didn’t mean it like it sounded.

In fact work conditions in the South are as good as anywhere and I would venture to say there is certainly a more value added workforce.

The coal mine industry might be the exception because of the health hazards along with the work itself. I have no issue with that. But if your seriously thinking Auto workers and such face the same kind of conditions you must be insane.

At one time auto workers worked in deplorable conditions which often resulted in lost limbs. My grandfather lost his leg in a auto parts stamping accident just after WWII. He later died when a doctor tried to reattach the leg and a blood clot worked its way into his heart, causing him to have a massive heart attack...

Women and children used to be regularly maimed in textile mills. President Teddy Roosevelt refused to acknowledge the children maimed in the Philadelphia textile mills, after Mother Jones led them on a march to his home on Long Island...

I could go on and on. But you should get the picture by now...

I realize conditions have improved considerably since those days. But unregulated businesses would take us right back to those times. It's cheaper to hire more underpaid workers than it is to pay them well and provide safe working conditions. In many 3rd world countries, that's exactly what many multinational corporations do. They'd still be doing it in the USA, but the nation has laws against such practices. Right to work states reap the benefits of those laws, since businesses must provide a minimum level of safety and pay...

(05-01-2013 03:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 03:16 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:49 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Devaluing labor usually ends up in situations like we saw in Bangladesh, where workers are paid next to nothing, and work in deplorable conditions, often to the detriment...

http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-building...23478.html

In West Virginia, coal company stores and housing is still well remembered by old timers. It was situations like what happened in Bangladesh that led to unions being created in the first place...

Are you seriously saying labor in the South is devalued? I certainly hope you aren’t comparing work conditions in the South to Bangladesh. If you think the region of the Southeaster US is like some third world poor country you must be totally ignorant and live in a bubble. I’m taking it you didn’t mean it like it sounded.

In fact work conditions in the South are as good as anywhere and I would venture to say there is certainly a more value added workforce.

The coal mine industry might be the exception because of the health hazards along with the work itself. I have no issue with that. But if your seriously thinking Auto workers and such face the same kind of conditions you must be insane.

At one time auto workers worked in deplorable conditions which often resulted in lost limbs. My grandfather lost his leg in a auto parts stamping accident just after WWII. He later died when a doctor tried to reattach the leg and a blood clot worked its way into his heart, causing him to have a massive heart attack...

Women and children used to be regularly maimed in textile mills. President Teddy Roosevelt refused to acknowledge the children maimed in the Philadelphia textile mills, after Mother Jones led them on a march to his home on Long Island...

I could go on and on. But you should get the picture by now...

I realize conditions have improved considerably since those days. But unregulated businesses would take us right back to those times. It's cheaper to hire more underpaid workers than it is to pay them well and provide safe working conditions. In many 3rd world countries, that's exactly what many multinational corporations do. They'd still be doing it in the USA, but the nation has laws against such practices. Right to work states reap the benefits of those laws, since businesses must provide a minimum level of safety and pay...

As painful as it is to admit, the Northern Industry had it's own ugly form of slavery. Deplorable working conditions, child labor, foreman bosses with belts and whips, 16 hour shifts in textile plants and other plants with no ventilation. There were no ways out for these people. They were prisoners of their situation. Like Bit commented about the coal miners company stores. They were prisoners. My ancestors were Irish immigrants who left it all in their diaries. Ask the Chinese in California how their ancestors had to slave away every day. A lot of states and places, North, South, East, and West have a lot to be ashamed of I guess.

(04-26-2013 07:45 AM)DexterDevil Wrote:  Rutgers stadium seating is 52,454, I wonder why they only have 50-55k a game...

Miss St stadium seating is 55,082. In a football hotbed without a pro team in sight I'd expect them to sell more seats, specially when you have more seats.

Let us not twist facts please. Rutgers compete against the Giants, Jets, Nets, Knicks, Rangers, Islanders, Mets, and Yankees for selling seats during the football season. Who does Miss St have in the near area? No one.

Twist facts? No facts were twisted. The point remains that not only does Mississippi State have more people attending football games than Rutgers, they do so in a tiny town that might not even warrant "borough" status in the State of New Jersey, whereas Rutgers is in a metro area of 22 million, and are the state university of a state that also includes millions of others in the Philly metro area.

Make all the pro-team competition excuses you want, Rutgers will never generate the kind of fan support most other schools can engender. Will they draw more in the B1G than they did in the Big East? No doubt. But how many of those added butts in Piscataway seats will be fans of the visiting teams who either make a road trip or who live in the NYC area? I say most of them.

Will Rutgers add to their stadium after they join the B1G? Probably. But 60K will be their limit, and they won't fill it even then for at least half their games.

(05-01-2013 09:44 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 01:19 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:24 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  With NAFTA & CAFTA in place, the companies that are moving south for cheap labor and just going to keep going south across the Rio Grande into Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama since they can mfg their products there are ship them into the states tariff free. Panama is almost totally devoid of income taxation.

Devaluing labor is a losing zero sum game.

Companies that help retailers and small manufacturers and distributors grow brand loyalty and enhance the customer experience are growing and adding staff. That is one of the key segments in the economic recovery. Amazon(Living Social), Belly, Grub Hub, Restaurant.com .

Not talking about devaluing labor. Talking about a fair wage. Companies that have to pay high-end wages have already lost the economic war. Worried about NAFTA? Try worrying about China. That's a losing zero sum game. Enough about this can of worms I opened. Let's move on.

The auto makers have rebounded tremendously since the 08 Bush auto bailout and one of the most successful retailers in Costco who pays the highest wages in the industry and offers the best benefits in retail. Starbucks continues to grow profitably and provides some form of healthcare for most if not all their employees. You don't have to cut wages or offer healthcare that none of your employees can afford like WalMart to be profitable.

The Right to Work for Less States have picked up jobs but on average their unemployment rates are still higher than the states that have a higher percentage of Union membership.

The Red States in the South take in more Federal dollars than they pay out in taxes/fees, etc. to the Federal government.

This is a fact despite the South, on average, being where more people complain about Federal taxes and Federal payouts/entitlements.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning...taxes.html


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ing-state/


Rick Perry always decries Federal money and intervention and even threatened to secede, but was yelling loudly for Federal aid after the recent West, Texas explosion.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/18/ri...explosion/


I view it as hypocrisy. But, who cares what I think?

I grew up in a working class area of Pennsylvania. I am the son and grandson of coal miners and steelworkers. To this day, I view everything through that prism.

If something doesn't equate to higher wages and benefits for the middle/working class and seems to only benefit large, multinational corporations and upper class folks, I am not for it and probably am against it.

Anyway, back to arguing about sports.

(05-01-2013 03:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 03:16 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:49 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Devaluing labor usually ends up in situations like we saw in Bangladesh, where workers are paid next to nothing, and work in deplorable conditions, often to the detriment...

http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-building...23478.html

In West Virginia, coal company stores and housing is still well remembered by old timers. It was situations like what happened in Bangladesh that led to unions being created in the first place...

Are you seriously saying labor in the South is devalued? I certainly hope you aren’t comparing work conditions in the South to Bangladesh. If you think the region of the Southeaster US is like some third world poor country you must be totally ignorant and live in a bubble. I’m taking it you didn’t mean it like it sounded.

In fact work conditions in the South are as good as anywhere and I would venture to say there is certainly a more value added workforce.

The coal mine industry might be the exception because of the health hazards along with the work itself. I have no issue with that. But if your seriously thinking Auto workers and such face the same kind of conditions you must be insane.

At one time auto workers worked in deplorable conditions which often resulted in lost limbs. My grandfather lost his leg in a auto parts stamping accident just after WWII. He later died when a doctor tried to reattach the leg and a blood clot worked its way into his heart, causing him to have a massive heart attack...

Women and children used to be regularly maimed in textile mills. President Teddy Roosevelt refused to acknowledge the children maimed in the Philadelphia textile mills, after Mother Jones led them on a march to his home on Long Island...

I could go on and on. But you should get the picture by now...

I realize conditions have improved considerably since those days. But unregulated businesses would take us right back to those times. It's cheaper to hire more underpaid workers than it is to pay them well and provide safe working conditions. In many 3rd world countries, that's exactly what many multinational corporations do. They'd still be doing it in the USA, but the nation has laws against such practices. Right to work states reap the benefits of those laws, since businesses must provide a minimum level of safety and pay...

Bit, you and I are more alike and agree on more things than you might be comfortable with. :)

I have the same type family history, background and stories. I also have a similar philosophy about labor and unregulated, runaway capitalism and such things.

(05-01-2013 03:13 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 10:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Where'd you get the notion that the Auto bailouts were for the North, not the South? The Japanese auto makers were strongly in favor of the bailout, since GM and Chrysler going down would have taken a number of component makers with them, which would have increased the production cost at the US assembly plants of the Japanese automakers. Plus the conversion of the lesser depression into another great depression would have really messed up their sales prospects.

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night or are you a global supply chain executie? I think neither.

None of that is inside knowledge, it was well covered in the business press. Anyone who reads Forbes, the Economist of London, the WSJ would have been aware that the Japanese auto makers in the US were exposed to substantial supply chain risks if GM and Chrysler had gone down, which would have dragged Ford down with them.

Quote: And the great depression argument is total BS. People must not have a clue or know the history of the GREAT DEPRESSION.

There's no doubting that we are currently experience a labor market depression ~ if we still had the workforce participation rates of 2007, we'd still be at 10%-12% official unemployment rates, and that is with social safety net programs in place that were absent in the 30's. Its a smaller labor market depression at the moment, like the Depression of the 90's, but add a collapse of the three US headquartered automakers on top of that, and you are definitely looking at a loss of effective demand that takes us into the Great Depression range.

Which is another reason to be dubious about the ten and twenty year conference revenues predictions that are being made by various conference, the Big Ten included ... stagnant real incomes are not the strongest foundation for thriving media revenues.

(05-01-2013 06:09 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 03:34 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 03:16 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 11:49 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Devaluing labor usually ends up in situations like we saw in Bangladesh, where workers are paid next to nothing, and work in deplorable conditions, often to the detriment...

http://news.yahoo.com/collapsed-building...23478.html

In West Virginia, coal company stores and housing is still well remembered by old timers. It was situations like what happened in Bangladesh that led to unions being created in the first place...

Are you seriously saying labor in the South is devalued? I certainly hope you aren’t comparing work conditions in the South to Bangladesh. If you think the region of the Southeaster US is like some third world poor country you must be totally ignorant and live in a bubble. I’m taking it you didn’t mean it like it sounded.

In fact work conditions in the South are as good as anywhere and I would venture to say there is certainly a more value added workforce.

The coal mine industry might be the exception because of the health hazards along with the work itself. I have no issue with that. But if your seriously thinking Auto workers and such face the same kind of conditions you must be insane.

At one time auto workers worked in deplorable conditions which often resulted in lost limbs. My grandfather lost his leg in a auto parts stamping accident just after WWII. He later died when a doctor tried to reattach the leg and a blood clot worked its way into his heart, causing him to have a massive heart attack...

Women and children used to be regularly maimed in textile mills. President Teddy Roosevelt refused to acknowledge the children maimed in the Philadelphia textile mills, after Mother Jones led them on a march to his home on Long Island...

I could go on and on. But you should get the picture by now...

I realize conditions have improved considerably since those days. But unregulated businesses would take us right back to those times. It's cheaper to hire more underpaid workers than it is to pay them well and provide safe working conditions. In many 3rd world countries, that's exactly what many multinational corporations do. They'd still be doing it in the USA, but the nation has laws against such practices. Right to work states reap the benefits of those laws, since businesses must provide a minimum level of safety and pay...

Bit, you and I are more alike and agree on more things than you might be comfortable with. :)

I have the same type family history, background and stories. I also have a similar philosophy about labor and unregulated, runaway capitalism and such things.

I've always known we have more in common than we do differences. Our only major difference is our respective sentiment toward Notre Dame. But the Irish have always been on the short end of the stick, when it comes to just about everything. So I figured you'd agree with me on most things politically oriented. We have common cause historically in that area...

(05-01-2013 06:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 09:44 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(05-01-2013 01:19 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-30-2013 11:24 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  With NAFTA & CAFTA in place, the companies that are moving south for cheap labor and just going to keep going south across the Rio Grande into Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama since they can mfg their products there are ship them into the states tariff free. Panama is almost totally devoid of income taxation.

Devaluing labor is a losing zero sum game.

Companies that help retailers and small manufacturers and distributors grow brand loyalty and enhance the customer experience are growing and adding staff. That is one of the key segments in the economic recovery. Amazon(Living Social), Belly, Grub Hub, Restaurant.com .

Not talking about devaluing labor. Talking about a fair wage. Companies that have to pay high-end wages have already lost the economic war. Worried about NAFTA? Try worrying about China. That's a losing zero sum game. Enough about this can of worms I opened. Let's move on.

The auto makers have rebounded tremendously since the 08 Bush auto bailout and one of the most successful retailers in Costco who pays the highest wages in the industry and offers the best benefits in retail. Starbucks continues to grow profitably and provides some form of healthcare for most if not all their employees. You don't have to cut wages or offer healthcare that none of your employees can afford like WalMart to be profitable.

The Right to Work for Less States have picked up jobs but on average their unemployment rates are still higher than the states that have a higher percentage of Union membership.

The Red States in the South take in more Federal dollars than they pay out in taxes/fees, etc. to the Federal government.

This is a fact despite the South, on average, being where more people complain about Federal taxes and Federal payouts/entitlements.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_reckoning...taxes.html


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ing-state/


Rick Perry always decries Federal money and intervention and even threatened to secede, but was yelling loudly for Federal aid after the recent West, Texas explosion.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/18/ri...explosion/


I view it as hypocrisy. But, who cares what I think?

I grew up in a working class area of Pennsylvania. I am the son and grandson of coal miners and steelworkers. To this day, I view everything through that prism.

If something doesn't equate to higher wages and benefits for the middle/working class and seems to only benefit large, multinational corporations and upper class folks, I am not for it and probably am against it.

Anyway, back to arguing about sports.

My Maytag dryer costed me less this last year than the one I purchased in 1982. Same goes for my TV, and just about everything else that used to be made in the USA. We fuss about wages but we all love the imported product prices. Buy American and we will all make more money, union and right to work...