(05-02-2012 10:01 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  So yeah - - the topic here, since this is a "Christian nation" as you folks like to say - - isn't Islam. It's Christianity. And there is an ugliness that is showing it's face again and again and again, and instead of justifying it or explaining it away or saying "Well, the Muslims are even worse", maybe some of you folks should open your eyes to what's going on around you and try and reclaim your religion from those who use it's teachings to hold down, bully, commit violence, propagate shame and hate and unworthiness on others.

None of those are in control of my religion, so I have no need to reclaim it from them. I would suggest that anyone whose religion is being controlled by such should, as you say, reclaim it. Or find a different religion.

Now one question. How in the world is anything you wrote responsive to the question I asked?

(05-02-2012 10:09 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 10:01 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  So yeah - - the topic here, since this is a "Christian nation" as you folks like to say - - isn't Islam. It's Christianity. And there is an ugliness that is showing it's face again and again and again, and instead of justifying it or explaining it away or saying "Well, the Muslims are even worse", maybe some of you folks should open your eyes to what's going on around you and try and reclaim your religion from those who use it's teachings to hold down, bully, commit violence, propagate shame and hate and unworthiness on others.

None of those are in control of my religion, so I have no need to reclaim it from them. I would suggest that anyone whose religion is being controlled by such should, as you say, reclaim it. Or find a different religion.

Now one question. How in the world is anything you wrote responsive to the question I asked?

You asked a question, and I answered it directly. I gave you my views on Muslim v. Christian. If you can't understand it, I'd suggest reading it again, or work on your reading comprehension skills.

(05-02-2012 10:18 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  You asked a question, and I answered it directly. I gave you my views on Muslim v. Christian. If you can't understand it, I'd suggest reading it again, or work on your reading comprehension skills.

I understood it perfectly. You dodged the question and tried to deflect into some non-responsive generic Muslim/Christian babble. I answered your deflection and then called you on your dodge.

If you think you answered my question directly, please repost and highlight the parts that you think were a direct answer. I don't expect that, so I'm through discussing this matter with you.

(05-02-2012 10:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I understood it perfectly. You dodged the question and tried to deflect into some non-responsive generic Muslim/Christian babble. I answered your deflection and then called you on your dodge.

If you think you answered my question directly, please repost and highlight the parts that you think were a direct answer. I don't expect that, so I'm through discussing this matter with you.

Oh, jeebus.

Why is it that when something like this happens, it's "Christians" doing it, but when al Qaeda destroys the WTC or Major Hassan shoots up Fort Hood it's a outlier in an otherwise peaceful religion?

I think most Christians and Muslims - although deluded by superstition - are generally peaceful. It's usually the Christians and the right wingers who consider Muslims to be largely a violent religion and culture, and Muslims probably feel the same way about Christians. I personally don't want to live under the grip of EITHER of them.

But the reality is this - we are in the US and Christianity holds sway here. It is the Christians that are powerful in this country and using their beliefs to directly impact the lives of others. So what other religions do is not really relevant to this discussion. We're not dealing with Muslims here. (And if we were, it would be far worse most likely, given Muslim attitudes towards gays.)

* * *

So, let me spell it out for you in bullet points:

• You made a strawman argument

• I pointed out the irony that you complain about Christians being painted with a broad brush but you folks do the same to Muslims

• I pointed out that we're not talking about Muslims here, we're talking about Christians, and what Muslims do isn't relevant to the discussion - your classic method of misdirection and hijacking a topic to veer into something completely unrelated is typical of you folks.

• I further pointed out that the reason I didn't say this Pastor's behavior is an outlier is because, well, it isn't - - it's pervasive thought among a large swath of the Christian population.

(05-02-2012 10:50 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 10:26 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I understood it perfectly. You dodged the question and tried to deflect into some non-responsive generic Muslim/Christian babble. I answered your deflection and then called you on your dodge.

If you think you answered my question directly, please repost and highlight the parts that you think were a direct answer. I don't expect that, so I'm through discussing this matter with you.

Oh, jeebus.

Why is it that when something like this happens, it's "Christians" doing it, but when al Qaeda destroys the WTC or Major Hassan shoots up Fort Hood it's a outlier in an otherwise peaceful religion?

I think most Christians and Muslims - although deluded by superstition - are generally peaceful. It's usually the Christians and the right wingers who consider Muslims to be largely a violent religion and culture, and Muslims probably feel the same way about Christians. I personally don't want to live under the grip of EITHER of them.

But the reality is this - we are in the US and Christianity holds sway here. It is the Christians that are powerful in this country and using their beliefs to directly impact the lives of others. So what other religions do is not really relevant to this discussion. We're not dealing with Muslims here. (And if we were, it would be far worse most likely, given Muslim attitudes towards gays.)

* * *

So, let me spell it out for you in bullet points:

• You made a strawman argument

• I pointed out the irony that you complain about Christians being painted with a broad brush but you folks do the same to Muslims

• I pointed out that we're not talking about Muslims here, we're talking about Christians, and what Muslims do isn't relevant to the discussion - your classic method of misdirection and hijacking a topic to veer into something completely unrelated is typical of you folks.

• I further pointed out that the reason I didn't say this Pastor's behavior is an outlier is because, well, it isn't - - it's pervasive thought among a large swath of the Christian population.

You didn't answer his question. If he says you didn't, you didn't because he is NEVER wrong and knows EVERYTHING. He must be God.

(05-02-2012 10:50 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  So, let me spell it out for you in bullet points:
• You made a strawman argument
• I pointed out the irony that you complain about Christians being painted with a broad brush but you folks do the same to Muslims
• I pointed out that we're not talking about Muslims here, we're talking about Christians, and what Muslims do isn't relevant to the discussion - your classic method of misdirection and hijacking a topic to veer into something completely unrelated is typical of you folks.
• I further pointed out that the reason I didn't say this Pastor's behavior is an outlier is because, well, it isn't - - it's pervasive thought among a large swath of the Christian population.

If you really think that is what happened here, then there is no basis for rational discussion. Your own prejudices are pretty obvious from these and prior posts. Let's leave it at that.

I thought of asking some third party with a more objective viewpoint to comment, but after thinking abou it, it's not something I really care that much about. I'm Christian but not nearly as hard-core as some on here, and you are far from the worst offender on this point, either on here or in the media, so it's hardly worth either of us getting all worked up. I would make a point of clarification that I was talking more about those others, particularly the media, than you personally. Let's just say good bye to this one.

Well...well...well. Who didn't see this coming. Conservative Playbook 101: He was only joking

Seriously!

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012...c=fo.local

(05-02-2012 01:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Well...well...well. Who didn't see this coming. Conservative Playbook 101: He was only joking

Seriously!

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012...c=fo.local

AKA liberal playbook 101. How sweet.

(05-01-2012 02:25 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  Here is the Senior Pastor of Berean Baptist Church in Fayetteville, NC, Sean Harris, preaching Christian love in advance of NC's vote on the anti-gay marriage amendment. Charming, eh? The audio is at the link below.


TRANSCRIPT:

"So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, “Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,” you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed.

Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch. Ok? You are not going to act like that. You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male. And when your daughter starts acting to Butch you reign her in. And you say, “Oh, no, sweetheart. You can play sports. Play them to the glory of God. But sometimes you are going to act like a girl and walk like a girl and talk like a girl and smell like a girl and that means you are going to be beautiful. You are going to be attractive. You are going to dress yourself up.”
You say, “Can I take charge like that as a parent?”

Yeah, you can. You are authorized. I just gave you a special dispensation this morning to do that."


http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/201...gle+Reader


* * *

So which Christians out there agree with "punching" a 4-year old who acts gay?

While not all of those voting for the anti-Gay amendment in NC support such statements, I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of them do. There's a LOT of abuse (mental and physical) of LGBT kids by their own families.

(05-02-2012 01:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Well...well...well. Who didn't see this coming. Conservative Playbook 101: He was only joking

Seriously!

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012...c=fo.local

Really "conservative playbook" you never see libs rolling stuff back? Is that the way you want to play it tom?

(05-02-2012 01:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 01:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Well...well...well. Who didn't see this coming. Conservative Playbook 101: He was only joking

Seriously!

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012...c=fo.local

AKA liberal playbook 101. How sweet.

He wasn't joking. Did you listen to the audio? Do you think he was joking? You'd do well to not defend the indefensible. And he's not some preacher with a 10 person congregation. He is a 'mainstream' family values preacher with a mega church.

And even if he was joking (which he wasn't), his statements are still indefensible. Who would joke like that? Do you?

As a Gay man, I've seen what the impact of 'Christianity' can do to kids who have the misfortune to be born into such a hateful environment.

I went to his website last night. He has another sermon attacking the Obama Administration because they dare to complain about regimes jailing or murdering their Gay citizens simply because they are openly Gay.

He's also a graduate of Liberty. Seeing as he went to a 'school' where Gays are blamed for 9-11, I wouldn't be surprised if he learned that sermon there.

(05-02-2012 01:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 02:25 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  Here is the Senior Pastor of Berean Baptist Church in Fayetteville, NC, Sean Harris, preaching Christian love in advance of NC's vote on the anti-gay marriage amendment. Charming, eh? The audio is at the link below.


TRANSCRIPT:

"So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, “Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,” you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed.

Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch. Ok? You are not going to act like that. You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male. And when your daughter starts acting to Butch you reign her in. And you say, “Oh, no, sweetheart. You can play sports. Play them to the glory of God. But sometimes you are going to act like a girl and walk like a girl and talk like a girl and smell like a girl and that means you are going to be beautiful. You are going to be attractive. You are going to dress yourself up.”
You say, “Can I take charge like that as a parent?”

Yeah, you can. You are authorized. I just gave you a special dispensation this morning to do that."


http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/201...gle+Reader


* * *

So which Christians out there agree with "punching" a 4-year old who acts gay?

While not all of those voting for the anti-Gay amendment in NC support such statements, I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of them do. There's a LOT of abuse (mental and physical) of LGBT kids by their own families.

Thank God Hetero kids are never subjected to mental and physical abuse by their families!

This man is NOT an outlier. He has a megachurch and enjoyes massive popularity by the Amendment One crowd and the GOP.

(05-02-2012 01:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Your own prejudices are pretty obvious from these and prior posts.

I'm not prejudiced. Folks can believe whatever moonbeam and unicorn stories they want. Matters not to me.

What matters is that just because folks choose to believe in a particular ancient book (that the vast majority have never bothered to read, and even those who've read it can't agree on what it says), and they decide their 'religion' calls for them to impact the lives of others.

Can't you folks just praise your God and leave the rest of us alone to live our lives in peace? (and that's true for other religions as well, of course).

But no. God wants some of you to beat 4 years olds if he acts "gay". God wants some of you to blow up the WTC. God wants some of you to go to a gay bar and randomly shoot innocent people. God wants some of you to let your children die rather than receive medical care. God wants some of you to reject and turn your back on your kids if they are gay. God wants some of you to blow up abortion clinics. God wants some of you to blow up subways. God wants some of you to strap bombs on yourself and kill innocent people. God wants some of you to fling acid in the face of a woman. God wants some of you to torture, main, and kill in the name of conversion to your religion. God wants to make sure your kids have the freedom to terrorize and bully other children in the name of 'religious freedom'. God wants lots of things, and all different, according to each indiviual nut job.

Isn't it time to leave all this BS behind and encourage a more rational approach to society than hiding behind all this superstition, ignorance and fear?

(05-02-2012 01:18 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 01:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 02:25 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  Here is the Senior Pastor of Berean Baptist Church in Fayetteville, NC, Sean Harris, preaching Christian love in advance of NC's vote on the anti-gay marriage amendment. Charming, eh? The audio is at the link below.


TRANSCRIPT:

"So your little son starts to act a little girlish when he is four years old and instead of squashing that like a cockroach and saying, “Man up, son, get that dress off you and get outside and dig a ditch, because that is what boys do,” you get out the camera and you start taking pictures of Johnny acting like a female and then you upload it to YouTube and everybody laughs about it and the next thing you know, this dude, this kid is acting out childhood fantasies that should have been squashed.

Can I make it any clearer? Dads, the second you see your son dropping the limp wrist, you walk over there and crack that wrist. Man up. Give him a good punch. Ok? You are not going to act like that. You were made by God to be a male and you are going to be a male. And when your daughter starts acting to Butch you reign her in. And you say, “Oh, no, sweetheart. You can play sports. Play them to the glory of God. But sometimes you are going to act like a girl and walk like a girl and talk like a girl and smell like a girl and that means you are going to be beautiful. You are going to be attractive. You are going to dress yourself up.”
You say, “Can I take charge like that as a parent?”

Yeah, you can. You are authorized. I just gave you a special dispensation this morning to do that."


http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/201...gle+Reader


* * *

So which Christians out there agree with "punching" a 4-year old who acts gay?

While not all of those voting for the anti-Gay amendment in NC support such statements, I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of them do. There's a LOT of abuse (mental and physical) of LGBT kids by their own families.

Thank God Hetero kids are never subjected to mental and physical abuse by their families!

But unlike the supporters of anti-Gay marriage amendments, we aren't ADVOCATING violence against children.

(05-02-2012 01:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  This man is NOT an outlier. He has a megachurch and enjoyes massive popularity by the Amendment One crowd and the GOP.

So "*** **** America" is typical of black churches? I mean Right has a mega church that both a state senator and Oprah attended..

(05-02-2012 01:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  He's also a graduate of Liberty.

Stunning.

(05-02-2012 01:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 01:18 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 01:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  While not all of those voting for the anti-Gay amendment in NC support such statements, I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of them do. There's a LOT of abuse (mental and physical) of LGBT kids by their own families.

Thank God Hetero kids are never subjected to mental and physical abuse by their families!

But unlike the supporters of anti-Gay marriage amendments, we aren't ADVOCATING violence against children.

You've offered no proof that people voting against the marriage amendment... Thats who your target was with teh post

This pastor, Kidding or not, needs to be disciplined by the elder-ship at that church because those words did not belong at the pulpit.

(05-02-2012 09:29 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 09:09 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  More Christian Love from a religious leader in North Carolina:

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/boy...7/31/24662

A four-year old boy was shot to death by his common-law father, a religious leader who thought the boy was gay, because he had slapped another boy’s behind. As The New Civil Rights Movement reported earlier this month, four-year old Jadon Higganbothan was murdered by Peter Lucas Moses, 27, who also shot to death a 28-​year old woman, Antoinetta Yvonne McKoy, police and prosecutors say.

Now that prosecutors have revealed Moses’s motivation for thinking four-year old Jardon was gay, we also learned on Friday they asked for the death penalty in this tragic North Carolina case. Moses now faces two counts of first-degree murder.

Thank God Atheist never abuse or kill their kids!

And when you find Reasonists leaders advocating beating children, please let me know

(05-02-2012 01:21 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  So "*** **** America" is typical of black churches? I mean Right has a mega church that both a state senator and Oprah attended..

Misdirection again. It's not the same, and has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion.

Christian churches all over the country are the primary force trying to prevent gay rights; they are the ones pushing the villification of their fellow Americans who happen to be gay. It's simple fact. Are you really trying to deny it?