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Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
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BGSUalum1987 Offline
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Post: #1
Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
Instead of admitting that our financial problems are about 4 decades old.

Link to well-done story

It's so easy to thrash Snobama as a free-spending moron or bash The Shrub for his ham-fisted (mis)handling of the economy. Each party just uses this simplistic approach to regain power and drive the country further into debt and institutionalize the downward spiral of middle America.
08-18-2010 02:11 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
The men and women of of the last 4 decades are no longer in power.

And George W Bush is no longer the President of the United States of America.

Thus, the only person who can be blamed, or take credit for turning around, this mess is the current US Government and it's Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches.

Try to call some sort of blame "truce" or saying "It's not JUST me" or laying the blame at the feet of everyone is a non-sequitor, considering the only people who can do anything about it are currently in office.
08-18-2010 02:18 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
We are absolutely in Obamanomics. There is no one else to blame.

Code:
Obama Economy Facts


Bam’s lousy economic record: Let’s just look at the facts, shall we? [1]

By Keith Hennessey

On the campaign trail, President Obama is talking about everything except his own economic record.  He attacks his predecessor — a man for whom I worked — as his advisers promise a return to Clinton-era economics.

Rather than hearing about the last two Presidents, voters may instead want the President to explain the economic realities of his own 18-month tenure and what he foresees for the next two years.  To further that understanding here are some facts.

At 9.5% [2], the unemployment rate is 1.8 percentage points higher [3] today than when the President took office.  There are 3.3 million fewer U.S. jobs [4] than there were in January 2009.  The U.S. economy has lost jobs in 12 of the 18 months [5] he has been office, including the last two months.

In early August of last year, the President declared [6] that, thanks in part to his policies, the U.S. economy was “pointed in the right direction.”  We have lost jobs in six of the 12 months since then [7], for a net decline of 52,000 jobs [8].  The 9.4% unemployment rate when he made this statement climbed to 10.1% and has since declined to 9.5% [9], still higher than it was last August.

The President signed into law an $862 billion stimulus law [10] and two health laws that will create $788 billion of new entitlements over the next decade [11].  Combine these with countless other smaller spending bills, several of which were labeled as emergencies and therefore not paid for, and the U.S. government is $2.5 trillion more in debt than on the day this President took office [12].  That’s $8,000 more debt for every American man, woman, and child [13].

Signed free trade agreements with allies Colombia [14], Panama [15], and Korea [16] have not been ratified by Congress because the President has not submitted them for approval.  For 18 months, all three have sat in his inbox.

That’s the past and present.  What, then, does the President have to offer a skeptical voter for the future?

Assuming his economic agenda is enacted into law, the Obama administration projects unemployment would average 9.0% over four years [17] of the President’s term.  If you assume he is re-elected, they project unemployment over his two terms would average 7.6% [18].

For comparison, unemployment during former President Bill Clinton’s tenure averaged 5.2% [19] and during President George W. Bush’s tenure it averaged 5.3% [19].  Former President Jimmy Carter’s unemployment rate averaged 6.5% [19].

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner says the President is returning America to “the pro-growth tax and fiscal policies [20]” of the Clinton administration.  Yet the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates this administration would have the federal government spend more than 24% of the overall U.S. economy over his term [21], a government 25% larger than during the Clinton era [22].  Budget deficits would average 8.7% of the U.S. economy [23], compared to Clinton’s average 0.4% surplus [24].

The President proposes more government spending, higher tax rates and more debt [25] than his Democratic predecessor.

If Americans had devoted all their income from the beginning of 2009 to June 8 [26] of that year, they could have paid off the government debt inherited by this President from all his predecessors.  Under the President’s policies, if they were to try this in 2013, they’d have to work until Sept. 24 9 [27] .

While attention focused on taxpayer funds invested in big Wall Street banks, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac cost taxpayers $291 billion last year and will cost an additional $98 billion over the next decade [28].  The new financial reform law does not address these two firms, which continue to cost taxpayers about $2 billion each month [28].

If the President has his way, on Jan. 1, taxes on many successful small business owners will rise [29].  Investors will pay higher taxes on their capital gains and dividends [30], and some small businesses and family farms will once again be subject to death taxes [31].  This isn’t undoing tax cuts for the rich, it’s raising taxes on small businesses.

Tanning salons [32] and tobacco [33] are not the only new taxes Americans will face.  Drug companies [34], health plans [35] and medical device manufacturers [36] will charge higher prices as they pass new taxes on to their customers.  Health Savings Accounts will no longer be usable for tax-free purchases of over-the-counter medications [37].  Some workers will pay higher Medicare taxes [38], and some investors will pay a new 2.9% 3.8% tax [39].

Individuals and families who cannot afford health insurance will face a new tax [40], as will employers who cannot afford to provide their employees with health insurance [41].  The President proposes to tax charitable contributions for high-income donors [42], American firms competing with foreign firms overseas [43], and, indirectly, your electric bill [44].

These facts may explain why President Obama wants to talk about somebody else.


Backup and Sources

    * Bureau of Labor Statistics. [45]
    * Bureau of Labor Statistics. [45]
    * Bureau of Labor Statistics [46].  (Select More Formatting Options, then choose “Original Data Value” and Retrieve Data.
    * Bureau of Labor Statistics [47].
    * Presidential Rose Garden statement [48], August 7, 2009.
    * Bureau of Labor Statistics [47].
    * Bureau of Labor Statistics [46].  (Select More Formatting Options, then choose “Original Data Value” and Retrieve Data.)
    * Bureau of Labor Statistics. [45]
    * The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2010 to 2020, Appendix A [49].
    * Score of H.R. 4872 in a letter to Speaker Pelosi, Table 1 on page 5 [50].
    * TreasuryDirect. [51]
    * Census. [52]
    * U.S. Trade Representative. [53]
    * U.S. Trade Representative. [54]
    * U.S. Trade Representative. [55]
    * Mid-Session Review, Fiscal Year 2011 [56], Table 2 on page 9.
    * Mid-Session Review, Fiscal Year 2011 [56], Table 2 on page 9.
    * Bureau of Labor Statistics. [45]
    * Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner [57], Remarks as prepared for delivery at the Center for American Progress, August 4, 2010.
    * An Analysis of the President’s Budgetary Proposals for Fiscal Year 2011, Table 1-2 on page 5 [58].
    * Comparing Obama Economics to Clinton economics [59].  Note this table shows a lower average for President Obama’s average spending because it uses the Administration’s more optimistic OMB projections.  For an apples-to-apples comparison here I’m using CBO numbers.
    * An Analysis of the President’s Budgetary Proposals for Fiscal Year 2011, Table 1-2 on page 5 [58].
    * Comparing Obama Economics to Clinton economics [59], which uses data from OMB’s Historical Table 1.2. [60]
    * Comparing Obama Economics to Clinton economics [59].  Revenues/GDP are projected to be lower during President Obama’s term because of the weak economy, but beginning in 2013 the top income tax rate will be higher than during the Clinton Administration.
    * TreasuryDirect [51] and Commerce Department, Bureau of Economic Analysis. [61]
    * I made an error here – it should be September 9th rather than September 24th.  CBO projects debt held by the public at the end of CY 2012 = 11.579 T and projects 2013 GDP = 16.676 T.  Therefore debt / GDP = 69.44%, getting to September 9, 2013.
    * CBO’s Budgetary Treatment of Treatment of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac [62] (January 2010), Table 2 on page 8.
    * General Explanations of the Administration’s Fiscal Year 2011 Revenue Proposals [63], pp. 127-128.
    * Green Book [63],” p. 131.
    * Green Book [63],” p. i footnote 1.
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Imposition of tax on indoor tanning services.”
    * Public Law 111-3 (H.R. 2) [65], “Increase in excise tax rate on tobacco products.”
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Imposition of annual fee on branded prescription pharmaceutical manufacturers and importers.”
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Imposition of annual fee on health insurance providers.”
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Imposition of annual fee on medical device manufacturers and importers.”
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Distributions for medicine qualified only if for prescribed drug or insulin.”
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Additional hospital insurance tax on high-income taxpayers.”
    * Public Law 111-152 (H.R. 4872) [66], “Unearned income Medicare contribution.”
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Shared Responsibility Payment” and “Amount of penalty.”
    * Public Law 111-148 (H.R. 3590) [64], “Shared responsibility for employers.”
    * Green Book [63],” p. 129.
    * Green Book [63],” throughout pp. 39-49.
    * The President’s Budget, FY 2011, Table S-2 [67], footnote 3 on p. 4.
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2010 03:28 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
08-18-2010 03:24 PM
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aTxTIGER Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
Doesn't anyone else here remember the credit markets crashing on September 17th, 2008? I'm pretty sure Obama wasn't in office then. To blame Obama for the creation of this recession is plain silly. To not blame Obama for his reaction to the recession is just as foolhardy. He has done a below average job handling the economy since he took office. I think most Dems would agree to that.

With that said, approximately every 40 years our economy crashes. It's part of the modern economic cycle and has been since the 1820s. It's the one downfall of our capitalist system. 35 years of mostly upward growth must correct itself for about 5 years. To me, that 35 years is worth 5 bad years.
08-18-2010 05:58 PM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
Does it matter who's fault it is? It's our problem.

My hair is falling out. It's not my fault, but it is my problem.
08-18-2010 08:14 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
Obama got elected to fix the problem, not to blame Bush for it.

If his campaign theme had been, "Elect me and the mess won't stop, but I'll keep reminding you who caused it," I somehow don't think the voters would have hired him.
08-18-2010 10:17 PM
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BGSUalum1987 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.
08-19-2010 07:37 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 07:37 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.

I don't think anyone is blaming Obama solely. What they're blaming him on are his idiotic policies that were supposed to help. I, and a few others, KNEW it wouldn't work because you can't punish businesses and the rich with more taxes and expect them to keep the same spending habits. People adapt to that. I, as well as the others mentioned, ALSO bashed Bush and the Dem Congress for the first bailouts. Bush was by no means a fiscal conservative, but he's out of office now and, as Owl stated, the time to bash Bush is over. You can't run on "I'm gonna fix everything Bush messed up" then turn around and blame Bush for your inability to do so.
08-19-2010 07:53 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 07:37 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.

Where is the benefit of looking backwards today? That is something for historians and economists to research and write scholarly papers about.



The blame game doesn't increase employment, fend of deflation / inflation, or fix the housing crisis. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! We went forward kicking ass and chewing bubble gum, on the way to a new prosperity.

Obama and the Congress are in a unique place in history with almost unlimited ability to address the above issues, what good does standing at the dias and pointing figers do?

I'd wager 95% of this board has a cursory understanding of all the things that have gone wrong on the surface.

But isn't the question "Damn well what are we going to do about it"
08-19-2010 08:15 AM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 07:37 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.

I did not know the board could get narrow-minded. No, what you mean is some conservative individuals here are narrow-minded. A weak attempt at veiling your meaning. It was these narrow minded people who, when Obama and the elitist Democrats were swept into office, warned how dangerous Obama the ideologue would be to the country. We pointed out correctly how Obama is the liar of the century. His word crafted "created or saved". His dis-associations with people, too numerous to mention. The great post-racial president, more divisive than any president, ever. How can we not ridicule this buffoon, his cabinet appointments. Polosi, Reid. His assbackwards policies. Suing Az. The jack-ass Holder. The CBO is a joke on Obamacare forecast. His Supreme Court gaff. His speech writers, making him the teleprompter Prez. an empty suit, and his disconnect with the American people. His gaff a minute vice. And on and on and on. Well hate to say it but we told you so. The truth is not narrow-minded. Face it, Obama and the Dims are so narrow-minded, you wish we had Bush43 back.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2010 09:49 AM by SumOfAllFears.)
08-19-2010 09:16 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-18-2010 02:18 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The men and women of of the last 4 decades are no longer in power.

And George W Bush is no longer the President of the United States of America.

Thus, the only person who can be blamed, or take credit for turning around, this mess is the current US Government and it's Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches.

Try to call some sort of blame "truce" or saying "It's not JUST me" or laying the blame at the feet of everyone is a non-sequitor, considering the only people who can do anything about it are currently in office.
Thanks Glenn. Do you have any more talking points to share with us? Btw, you reichwingers still blame Carter and he has been out of power a long time. Of course, it is ok for you reichwingers to do it but heaven forbid those on the left use "W".
08-19-2010 12:12 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-18-2010 08:14 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Does it matter who's fault it is? It's our problem.

My hair is falling out. It's not my fault, but it is my problem.

But how would you feel if a snake oil salesman told you he can fix your hair if you gave him money (taxes)?
08-19-2010 12:17 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 07:37 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.

When you have a government that's extreme people tend to huddle together around a common cause. We see Obamosque as a problem, he see himself as the solution.
08-19-2010 12:21 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 07:53 AM)Rebel Wrote:  
(08-19-2010 07:37 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.

I don't think anyone is blaming Obama solely. What they're blaming him on are his idiotic policies that were supposed to help. I, and a few others, KNEW it wouldn't work because you can't punish businesses and the rich with more taxes and expect them to keep the same spending habits. People adapt to that. I, as well as the others mentioned, ALSO bashed Bush and the Dem Congress for the first bailouts. Bush was by no means a fiscal conservative, but he's out of office now and, as Owl stated, the time to bash Bush is over. You can't run on "I'm gonna fix everything Bush messed up" then turn around and blame Bush for your inability to do so.
03-lmfao More ridiculous talking points from the dimwit. So your solution to our economic situation is more tax cuts for the rich.
08-19-2010 12:33 PM
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Post: #15
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 12:33 PM)RobertN Wrote:  03-lmfao More ridiculous talking points from the dimwit. So your solution to our economic situation is more tax cuts for the rich.

Nah, you're right. High ass taxation, or the impending high ass taxation, is doing miracles for job creation. Just look at the numbers that came out today. Man! Obama is REALLY turning the country around! 01-wingedeagle

Ahh, the liberal mind. Something that should only exist inside of a research center and studied on what NOT to do.
08-19-2010 12:37 PM
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Post: #16
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
...and yes, we need TAX cuts, if not a replacing of the entire system in favor of a national retail sales tax. People stimulate the economy and job creation. NOT the damn government, you anti-Capitalist leech. You tax the hell out of people and they change their spending habits. Everyone knows this but a braindead liberal such as yourself.
08-19-2010 12:39 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
I'm not in favor of tax cuts. I support 2 things. 1) a vat/consumption tax... 2) the closing of loopholes.

The biggest reason I support 1 is because it likely accomplishes 2. WHY am I so adamant about 2?? Because the current tax structure allows the VERY wealthy to avoid many taxes specifically intended for them... the natural results are that the rich get richer while the revenue from the tax is less than it should be or could be.... so the poor get poorer (because we don't collect enough to "do" for them) OR we run a bigger deficit... which must be funded by taxpayers... iow, the middle/upper middle class... but not (at least not enough) the wealthy. Democrats keep trying to "tax the rich", which SOUNDS good, but isn't really effective. The VERY wealthy want the loopholes, and they get them from both parties.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2010 02:27 PM by Hambone10.)
08-19-2010 02:26 PM
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niucob86 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
Robert:
Fatherhood is a wonderful thing and I hope, if you choose to, you are able to experience it someday once you meet that special NIU gal. I'm quite sure you'd teach young Robert Jr. that it is immoral to steal the private property of another. But when the lad got a little older, how would you reconcile your advocacy of wealth redistribution to him? And you mentioned your father in a post once. Does /did he feel the same as you do on this issue? If so, how did he rationalize it to you? Just curious, I suppose.
08-19-2010 02:55 PM
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BGSUalum1987 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 12:21 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(08-19-2010 07:37 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.

When you have a government that's extreme people tend to huddle together around a common cause. We see Obamosque as a problem, he see himself as the solution.

My word of caution would be that a lot of folks thought Bush's administration was extreme and that caused a lot of people to huddle around a common cause - Obama.

I fear history is bound to repeat it self as we swing from one extreme to the other.
08-19-2010 03:27 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Let's keep blaming Obama ... and Bush
(08-19-2010 07:37 AM)BGSUalum1987 Wrote:  This board gets more narrow-minded every day.

Makes me sad.

Is that possible?
08-19-2010 04:13 PM
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