(08-21-2025 02:32 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 11:57 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 11:54 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 10:45 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Why is an “American” factory doing in Ukraine?

You dont remember that there were thousands of American companies doing business in Russia when sanctions forced them to close? American companies have factories all over the world. Its one reason Trump hopes to bring back US manufacturing jobs via forcing an end to unfair trade practices. Heck---in WWII a Ford factory built in the early 1930's in Germany was used by the Germans to build trucks---some of which were designed to haul the V2 rockets for the Nazis.

Adolf Hitler praised Ford as “the leader of our fascist movement in America'

Prog filth love fascism

Oh. Btw

Frick Ukraine

What about Russia? You forget you have to do the moral equivalence thing?

We
Did
Not
Give
Russia
Hundreds
And
Hundreds
Of
Billions
Of
Dollars


FFS. What about that is hard to understand?

(08-21-2025 02:42 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:37 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 12:11 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "American" company got bombed in Ukraine. That wouldn't happen in "America".

And shouldn’t happen anywhere. Putin is outright poking Trump in the eye after Alaska. How long will Trump put up with it?

What do you want him to do? Bomb the Kremlin? Trump posted a pretty serious warning today which is 3 posts above here.

Oh and I forgot, he did tell Putin he would bomb the Kremlin if he invaded Ukraine. Did you forget that too?

(08-21-2025 02:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:32 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 11:57 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 11:54 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 10:45 AM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Why is an “American” factory doing in Ukraine?

You dont remember that there were thousands of American companies doing business in Russia when sanctions forced them to close? American companies have factories all over the world. Its one reason Trump hopes to bring back US manufacturing jobs via forcing an end to unfair trade practices. Heck---in WWII a Ford factory built in the early 1930's in Germany was used by the Germans to build trucks---some of which were designed to haul the V2 rockets for the Nazis.

Adolf Hitler praised Ford as “the leader of our fascist movement in America'

Prog filth love fascism

Oh. Btw

Frick Ukraine

What about Russia? You forget you have to do the moral equivalence thing?

We
Did
Not
Give
Russia
Hundreds
And
Hundreds
Of
Billions
Of
Dollars


FFS. What about that is hard to understand?

No we gave it to people who were being killed by Putin. We never would have had to give them anything had Putin kept his little dick in his pants.

Putin's demands:

-No NATO admittance
-No Western troops in Ukraine
-Hand over all of Donbas

Ukraine can't agree to this. They would give up their heavily fortified defensive network in the portion of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds. Without any concrete security guarantees, it would leave them vulnerable to another Russian invasion in the future.

(08-21-2025 02:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:25 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 01:24 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Sounds like the "carrot" phase of Trumps negotiations with Putin are over and the "stick" phase is about to begin.

It is very hard, if not impossible, to win a war without attacking an invaders country. It's like a great team in sports that has a fantastic defense, but is not allowed to play offensive. There is no chance of winning! It is like that with Ukraine and Russia. Crooked and grossly incompetent Joe Biden would not let Ukraine FIGHT BACK, only DEFEND defend. How did that work out? Regardless, this is a war that would have NEVER happened if I were President-ZERO CHANCE. Interesting times ahead!!! President DJT.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gy4d6tMX0AAp...me=900x900

Well, if the orange menace truths it...it has to be true!

Biden allows Ukraine to strike inside Russia with missiles

Yeah, he did.… Nearly 3 years into the war… After he already lost the election… And even then, he only allowed strikes 100 miles into Russia if I remember, correctly.

And yet Ukraine WAS attacking inside Russia...as early as mid-2023. I believe all the Biden administration said was that they didn't want them to use any US weapons in attacking Russia...but they did regardless. It is a war after all...and Ukraine can do what they want.

Biden Administration Shrugs Off Ukraine’s Attacks in Russia

(08-21-2025 03:24 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Putin's demands:

-No NATO admittance
-No Western troops in Ukraine
-Hand over all of Donbas

Ukraine can't agree to this. They would give up their heavily fortified defensive network in the portion of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds. Without any concrete security guarantees, it would leave them vulnerable to another Russian invasion in the future.

Might as well give up on peace and go all in on WW3 if Ukraine is going to be in nato. Putin will never agree to that in any circumstance.

We also made agreements long ago never to allow that.

If they can't find another option outside of that one, there is no hope.

It's sad that certain people don't remember history. Under Obama? Putin took Crimea. Under Biden? The current Russia-Ukraine War started. Oh, and under GW Bush? Putin invaded the Republic of Georgia. Yet, under Trump's first Presidency, Putin didn't do a damn thing.

By the way, only one of them is actually trying to bring an end to this war. An end to this senseless violence. Biden didn't do a damn thing to even try to bring either party to the negotiating table. All he said was "don't!" several times. Oh, yeah. Like that'll stop things. *rolls eyes* Trump is actively trying to get a peace deal done so the wanton bloodshed and destruction will stop. And yet, what has the left focused on? "Oh, Trump rolled out the red carpet for Putin. What a clown!" He's trying to negotiate a peace agreement between two warring nations, one of which invaded the other on two separate occasions under two separate Democrat presidents, and the second Democrat president in question actually served as the Vice President of the first Democrat president in question.

When that's all you've got, you should just sit down and not even say anything. Otherwise, opening your mouth will make you look like a fool.

(08-21-2025 03:32 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 03:24 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Putin's demands:

-No NATO admittance
-No Western troops in Ukraine
-Hand over all of Donbas

Ukraine can't agree to this. They would give up their heavily fortified defensive network in the portion of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds. Without any concrete security guarantees, it would leave them vulnerable to another Russian invasion in the future.

Might as well give up on peace and go all in on WW3 if Ukraine is going to be in nato. Putin will never agree to that in any circumstance.

We also made agreements long ago never to allow that.

If they can't find another option outside of that one, there is no hope.

There was never an agreement signed and ratified not to allow Ukraine into NATO. That’s all fiction by Putin. The same Putin, who stands by none of his agreements.

(08-21-2025 04:10 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 03:32 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 03:24 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Putin's demands:

-No NATO admittance
-No Western troops in Ukraine
-Hand over all of Donbas

Ukraine can't agree to this. They would give up their heavily fortified defensive network in the portion of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds. Without any concrete security guarantees, it would leave them vulnerable to another Russian invasion in the future.

Might as well give up on peace and go all in on WW3 if Ukraine is going to be in nato. Putin will never agree to that in any circumstance.

We also made agreements long ago never to allow that.

If they can't find another option outside of that one, there is no hope.

There was never an agreement signed and ratified not to allow Ukraine into NATO. That’s all fiction by Putin. The same Putin, who stands by none of his agreements.

You don't sign and ratify personal and private agreements but who gives flip how either of us see that? That is not the point.

The fact is Putin will never in a million years agree to Ukraine being in NATO.

That is the point here that matters. They will have to find another way around that or the war will never end.

I say give our spot in NATO to Ukraine.



And then never talk to EU again.

(08-21-2025 02:53 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:42 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:37 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 12:11 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "American" company got bombed in Ukraine. That wouldn't happen in "America".

And shouldn’t happen anywhere. Putin is outright poking Trump in the eye after Alaska. How long will Trump put up with it?

What do you want him to do? Bomb the Kremlin? Trump posted a pretty serious warning today which is 3 posts above here.

Yes I’ve already seen it. I was scrolling though. It really doesn’t matter that Trump said this. The Ukrainians have developed their own long range drones and are coming on line with a much more powerful missile now. They have been hitting deep inside Russia for a while now.
I’ll remind you though that for some reason Trump has said a lot that he hasn’t backed up. We should be months into sanctions now but there’s no more talk about them.
Look I love Trumps actions so far on just about everything but this one thing. And I may be completely wrong about what he’s doing for reasons we don’t know. But Putin does appear to be jerking Trump around.

To what I bolded above, are you speaking to this specific situation, or to things in general? B/c if you mean in general, that's a laughable statement.

But if you mean specific to Ukraine, which I think you do, that's arguable, and certainly not anything to ding him for yet. IMO, that comment is important, b/c they just met last Friday, then he met with the others Monday, and now on Thursday he has busted Putin for screwing around already.

Now if you're pissed b/c Trump didn't act a few months ago, he's been kinda busy. Like busiest in history. I would much rather have him solving our problems first, then this one.

And I'm still wondering why WE have to solve this at all, and why the Euro weenies have stayed in the background. This is THEIR problem first, so I have no issue with Trump just now getting around to it, unless you can explain why doing this in May or June would have had a more positive impact on our lives.

(08-21-2025 03:32 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 03:24 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Putin's demands:

-No NATO admittance
-No Western troops in Ukraine
-Hand over all of Donbas

Ukraine can't agree to this. They would give up their heavily fortified defensive network in the portion of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds. Without any concrete security guarantees, it would leave them vulnerable to another Russian invasion in the future.

Might as well give up on peace and go all in on WW3 if Ukraine is going to be in nato. Putin will never agree to that in any circumstance.

We also made agreements long ago never to allow that.

If they can't find another option outside of that one, there is no hope.

There is a reasonable solution that fits in the box. Putin simply has not been given any reason to accept anything less than he thinks he can get on the battlefield--especially when Trump was cutting off the American weapons supply to Ukraine (at that point Putin probably could not believe his good fortune).

If we want Putin to be reasonable---if we want a peace deal sooner than later---announce the SALE of 1 million 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine to be delivered in 2025. Its not escalatory---as its a weapon system they have had for years---but suddenly ending the Ukrainian chronic shortage of artillery ammo would be a battlefield game changer. The other thing I'd do is quietly help Ukraine eliminate any bottle necks limiting the production of their own long range drones---as well as their long range domestically produced Neptune and Flamingo missiles. Dont announce that---just do it. As the Ukrainians quickly ramp up their ability to effectively hit and severely damage more and more refineries (there are already gas shortages in much of occupied Ukraine---and that has begun to spread to several oblasts INSIDE of Russia), Putin's interest in a quick and reasonable negotiated peace settlement will suddenly blossom.

(08-21-2025 02:55 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:42 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:37 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 12:11 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "American" company got bombed in Ukraine. That wouldn't happen in "America".

And shouldn’t happen anywhere. Putin is outright poking Trump in the eye after Alaska. How long will Trump put up with it?

What do you want him to do? Bomb the Kremlin? Trump posted a pretty serious warning today which is 3 posts above here.

Oh and I forgot, he did tell Putin he would bomb the Kremlin if he invaded Ukraine. Did you forget that too?

Good grief, try to stay focused on the moment. I'm talking about now. When Putin invaded Ukraine, Trump wasn't in office, so that's irrelevant.

(08-21-2025 03:24 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Putin's demands:

-No NATO admittance
-No Western troops in Ukraine
-Hand over all of Donbas

Ukraine can't agree to this. They would give up their heavily fortified defensive network in the portion of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds. Without any concrete security guarantees, it would leave them vulnerable to another Russian invasion in the future.

Who are you talking to? Does a single person on this board think Ukraine should agree to this? I don't think so.

And I thought concrete security guarantees is part of what the West is working on now.

(08-21-2025 04:25 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I say give our spot in NATO to Ukraine.



And then never talk to EU again.

They can have our spot for 350

(08-21-2025 02:57 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:54 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:32 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 11:57 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 11:54 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  You dont remember that there were thousands of American companies doing business in Russia when sanctions forced them to close? American companies have factories all over the world. Its one reason Trump hopes to bring back US manufacturing jobs via forcing an end to unfair trade practices. Heck---in WWII a Ford factory built in the early 1930's in Germany was used by the Germans to build trucks---some of which were designed to haul the V2 rockets for the Nazis.

Adolf Hitler praised Ford as “the leader of our fascist movement in America'

Prog filth love fascism

Oh. Btw

Frick Ukraine

What about Russia? You forget you have to do the moral equivalence thing?

We
Did
Not
Give
Russia
Hundreds
And
Hundreds
Of
Billions
Of
Dollars


FFS. What about that is hard to understand?

No we gave it to people who were being killed by Putin. We never would have had to give them anything had Putin kept his little dick in his pants.

If the filth hadnt installed a globohomo puppet..

Frick em

(08-21-2025 04:25 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  I say give our spot in NATO to Ukraine.



And then never talk to EU again.

That would be fine with me. I'm still trying to figure out how Russia illegally taking Donbas would affect me sitting here in my recliner watching the Tour Championship.

I get it. Putin is bad. Ukraine is the victim. But short of us bombing the crap out of Russia, which seems like a bad idea for now, exactly what are we supposed to do?

I don't like the hundreds of billions Biden gave away for nothing, and I don't like the EU being wussses. So now we need to bomb the Kremlin? That's insane talk. And it's why I have stayed out of this stupid argument until now. I think I'll return to my previous policy, lol.

(08-21-2025 04:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 03:32 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 03:24 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Putin's demands:

-No NATO admittance
-No Western troops in Ukraine
-Hand over all of Donbas

Ukraine can't agree to this. They would give up their heavily fortified defensive network in the portion of Donetsk that Ukraine still holds. Without any concrete security guarantees, it would leave them vulnerable to another Russian invasion in the future.

Might as well give up on peace and go all in on WW3 if Ukraine is going to be in nato. Putin will never agree to that in any circumstance.

We also made agreements long ago never to allow that.

If they can't find another option outside of that one, there is no hope.

There is a reasonable solution that fits in the box. Putin simply has not been given any reason to accept anything less than he thinks he can get on the battlefield--especially when Trump was cutting off the American weapons supply to Ukraine Z (at that point Putin probably could not believe his good fortune).

If we want Putin to be reasonable---if we want a peace deal sooner than later---announce the SALE of 1 million 155 artillery shells to Ukraine to be delivered in 2025. Its not escalatory---as its a weapon system they have had for years---but suddenly ending the Ukrainian chronic shortage of artillery ammo would be a battlefield game changer. The other thing I'd do is quietly help Ukraine eliminate any bottle necks limiting the production of their own long range drones---as well as their long range domestically produced Neptune and Flamingo missiles. Dont announce that---just do it. As the Ukrainians quickly ramp up their ability to effectively hit and severely damage more and more refineries (there are already gas shortages in much of occupied Ukraine---and that has begun to spread to several oblasts INSIDE of Russia), Putin's interest in a quick and reasonable negotiated peace settlement will suddenly blossom.

That sounds good to me, but something tells me if Trump does that, the left will be up in arms over it. (No pun intended; also because TDS is real.)

Yall call refer to Russia a Putin. So fully propagandized its second nature.

Zelinsky needs to hold elections and quit getting his people murdered. We do not need to add fuel to the fire.

Ukraine is not getting in Nato.
We are not going to risk wwiii for ukraine.
I wont be surprised if Russia nukes ukraine it we keep upping the anten

(08-21-2025 04:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:53 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:42 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 02:37 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-21-2025 12:11 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  "American" company got bombed in Ukraine. That wouldn't happen in "America".

And shouldn’t happen anywhere. Putin is outright poking Trump in the eye after Alaska. How long will Trump put up with it?

What do you want him to do? Bomb the Kremlin? Trump posted a pretty serious warning today which is 3 posts above here.

Yes I’ve already seen it. I was scrolling though. It really doesn’t matter that Trump said this. The Ukrainians have developed their own long range drones and are coming on line with a much more powerful missile now. They have been hitting deep inside Russia for a while now.
I’ll remind you though that for some reason Trump has said a lot that he hasn’t backed up. We should be months into sanctions now but there’s no more talk about them.
Look I love Trumps actions so far on just about everything but this one thing. And I may be completely wrong about what he’s doing for reasons we don’t know. But Putin does appear to be jerking Trump around.

To what I bolded above, are you speaking to this specific situation, or to things in general? B/c if you mean in general, that's a laughable statement.

But if you mean specific to Ukraine, which I think you do, that's arguable, and certainly not anything to ding him for yet. IMO, that comment is important, b/c they just met last Friday, then he met with the others Monday, and now on Thursday he has busted Putin for screwing around already.

Now if you're pissed b/c Trump didn't act a few months ago, he's been kinda busy. Like busiest in history. I would much rather have him solving our problems first, then this one.

And I'm still wondering why WE have to solve this at all, and why the Euro weenies have stayed in the background. This is THEIR problem first, so I have no issue with Trump just now getting around to it, unless you can explain why doing this in May or June would have had a more positive impact on our lives.

I am speaking specifically of this war. Nothing else. Trump spoke very early about tough sanctions on Russia. Then after hesitating Congress took it up. Then he said Congress would have to deal with it. They did nothing and then he says that he will put sanctions on Russia in 50 days or whatever it was. Then he changed it to 10 days or a week. Then Putin said he would meet with Trump in a couple of weeks. Then they met and still no sanctions after Putin has shot 500 drones and 100 missiles into Ukraine last night hitting a US factory on top of that. And Lavrov is poking fun at Trump even now after the so called great meeting in Alaska. It appears that meeting got exactly what Putin wanted. To make Trump look like he was ineffective and lied about a great meeting while it gained him more time. Trump has got to realize who he is dealing with. Putin is playing Trump and for some reason Trump is not doing anything serious.
Like I have said several times before, there may be some reason that none of us know about.
Russia is in serious economic trouble. It won’t take much to push them over the edge. If Putin keeps this military strategy of losing 1000 men a day and getting basically nowhere going for another few months he will be deeper into the no turning back hole. And his populace will begin to rumble regardless of his Soviet style crack down. Especially if the strikes inside Russia increase.

Just my view of course.