Cholos, wherefore art thou?

(06-26-2025 12:15 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Cholos, wherefore art thou?

Linguistic digression (I know there are a couple of lurkers here who archly resent this sort of thing, but I also know that there are other, more decent readers who appreciate it):

The word "wherefore" means "why", not "where". One way to remember this is to think of "wherefore" (i.e. "for what reason?") as the interrogative form of "therefore" (i.e. "for that reason").

The most famous use of "wherefore" is the balcony scene in Romeo & Juliet, in which Juliet pines "O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore are thou Romeo?"

As the subsequent lines make clear, she is not asking "where are you?". Rather, Juliet is lamenting "why does your name have to be Romeo?" -- that is, why do you have to be a Montague, who are the sworn enemies of my family Capulet.

The full soliloquy is a lament on the artificiality of names:
"O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore are thou Romeo?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name.
Or if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love
And I’ll no longer be a Capulet.

...O be some other name.
What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

...Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all myself."

(06-26-2025 07:03 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(06-26-2025 12:15 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Cholos, wherefore art thou?

Linguistic digression (I know there are a couple of lurkers here who archly resent this sort of thing, but I also know that there are other, more decent readers who appreciate it):

The word "wherefore" means "why", not "where". One way to remember this is to think of "wherefore" (i.e. "for what reason?") as the interrogative form of "therefore" (i.e. "for that reason").

The most famous use of "wherefore" is the balcony scene in Romeo & Juliet, in which Juliet pines "O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore are thou Romeo?"

As the subsequent lines make clear, she is not asking "where are you?". Rather, Juliet is lamenting "why does your name have to be Romeo?" -- that is, why do you have to be a Montague, who are the sworn enemies of my family Capulet.

The full soliloquy is a lament on the artificiality of names:
"O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore are thou Romeo?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name.
Or if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love
And I’ll no longer be a Capulet.

...O be some other name.
What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

...Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all myself."

I thought "cholo" would be the word objected to in that title, but ...

Just making a play on the movie.

So nobody has a problem with Democrats enlisting gangs in the War on Ice?

(06-26-2025 07:12 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I thought "cholo" would be the word objected to in that title, but ...

Digressing, not objecting!

English is known as a lightly inflected language, but I think the various inflection patterns that we do have are fascinating. Your post got me thinking of these:
- Whence, thence, hence = from where?, from there, from here
- Whither, thither, hither = to where?, to there, to here
- Wherefore, therefore, herefore = for what reason? for that reason, for this reason

It is particularly intriguing how some forms remain in current use while others have essentially (e.g. wherefore) or entirely (e.g. herefore) disappeared.

Not long ago, my niece and I were discussing this interesting (to us) set:
- nigh = close by (old fashioned)
- nigh-er = closer , contracted to "near"
- nigh-est = closest, contracted to "next"
. . . and of course the related "neighbor".

Showing the diversity of this forum... I too am thankful for the education on the meaning of 'wherefore'... even though I have ALWAYS loved and been a consumer of 'Shakespeare' ... I did not know this... but always wondered about the interaction... it always seemed a little 'pointlessly magical' that she called to him and he appeared. It makes more sense that he was there and she knew it.

And the calls for the gangs are indefensible and I hope there is something she can be arrested for there.

(06-26-2025 12:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Iran protests

Hard to believe there are pro-Iran protests in the USA. But I guess some people will seize any reason to be anti-Trump.

I saw a 'protest' in Europe somewhere that was actually a pro-middle east celebration as opposed to a protest. It was essentially the people of Iran, flying the pre-1979 Iranian flag, along with tons of flags from Israel and the US... in protest (if you can call it that) of the IRG.... as represented by the post 1979 flag. Subtle differences artistically... night and day in terms of 'freedom', especially but not exclusively for women. Gay, trans etc people should be part of this celebration.

(06-26-2025 01:30 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  And the calls for the gangs are indefensible and I hope there is something she can be arrested for there.

Free speech includes stupid speech. Some people take the phrase "the enemy of my enemy Donald Trump is my friend" way too far - including some who post here.