LOL.

(04-17-2025 11:06 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:51 AM)gdunn Wrote:  So a dangerous illegal is deported back to his homeland and it's a Constitutional crisis, but when a man who has lost his faculties is in charge of the country, but there appears someone else is running the show, pardons to his son and people who have not even had charges brought against them is a-okay and not a constitutional crisis?

Keep constructing those straw men!

Ok.. So if Joe Biden was so competent why did the Dems feel the need to replace him in the middle of an election?

You deny that he pardoned his son, and several others who have not been charged with a crime? Liz Cheney, Adam Schiff, Fauci?

But hey a gang banger got sent home and that is going to tear down the sacred Constitution that you sh*t on daily. Pound sand and have a Happy Easter.

(04-17-2025 10:30 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:23 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:48 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:41 PM)maximus Wrote:  You do understand due process isn't the same for 20 million ******* who were allowed to illegally waltz into our sovereign country.... you do know this right lite brite?

Again, read the Constitution -

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

Due process is required for any person, including "20 million *******". Not any citizen, not any lawful immigrant, ANY PERSON. If said person has illegally waltzed into our sovereign country, then a hearing before a duly authorized court which finds they entered illegally and orders them removed constitutes that due process. What you want done is entirely possible here, but there is a way to go about it in a society governed by the rule of law. If the rule of law is not respected now, don't expect us to respect it when we're back on top.

Why did you leave out the most important part of what you quoted?

Quote:Section 1 Rights
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; [/b]nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Well you've bolded the citizenship clause, and we absolutely agree this man is not a citizen of the United States. I don't think anyone even in the craziest cesspools of the far left suggests otherwise.

Take a look at the next sentence, first it says that no state can abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS, and continues to say that they cannot deprive any PERSON of life, liberty or property without due process. The framers used different words, and so the government CAN abridge the privileges and immunities of a person who is not a citizen. However they drew the protection from deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process with the broadest brush possible, applying it to any PERSON.

If you wish this changed, there is a process to amend the Constitution. Or if you can convince 5 Justices of the Supreme Court it means something other than what it says, joila. But absent one of these occurrences, the deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process of law is a Constitutional violation.

The argument is, the 20M or so were let in illegally, so they can be let out the same way they came in. Otherwise, it will take 50 years to get them all out. And meanwhile, they are a national security threat b/c they were unvetted.

Under no circumstances did the founders envision a scenario like this.

And we all know they were not let in for humanitarian reasons. They were let in to add an advantage to the Dem voter rolls, and turn this country into a one-party rule. End of story.

So yeah, those of us who disagree with that will take the same illegal stance in reverse that you clowns took letting these people in. Illegally.

I disagree, I don't believe the rule of law does or should work that way. One illegality does not give rise to a free pass to another illegality to correct it, eye for an eye style. But at least you have articulated an argument and it does illuminate how some people feel about this issue, thanks!

(04-17-2025 10:37 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:23 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:48 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:41 PM)maximus Wrote:  You do understand due process isn't the same for 20 million ******* who were allowed to illegally waltz into our sovereign country.... you do know this right lite brite?

Again, read the Constitution -

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

Due process is required for any person, including "20 million *******". Not any citizen, not any lawful immigrant, ANY PERSON. If said person has illegally waltzed into our sovereign country, then a hearing before a duly authorized court which finds they entered illegally and orders them removed constitutes that due process. What you want done is entirely possible here, but there is a way to go about it in a society governed by the rule of law. If the rule of law is not respected now, don't expect us to respect it when we're back on top.

Why did you leave out the most important part of what you quoted?

Quote:Section 1 Rights
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; [/b]nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Well you've bolded the citizenship clause, and we absolutely agree this man is not a citizen of the United States. I don't think anyone even in the craziest cesspools of the far left suggests otherwise.

Take a look at the next sentence, first it says that no state can abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS, and continues to say that they cannot deprive any PERSON of life, liberty or property without due process. The framers used different words, and so the government CAN abridge the privileges and immunities of a person who is not a citizen. However they drew the protection from deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process with the broadest brush possible, applying it to any PERSON.

If you wish this changed, there is a process to amend the Constitution. Or if you can convince 5 Justices of the Supreme Court it means something other than what it says, joila. But absent one of these occurrences, the deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process of law is a Constitutional violation.

Tell me what is not in there? Fourteenth Amendment says NOTHING about the federal government and strictly limits it to STATES. The bill of right is to protect us from the feds

That isn't the win you think it is, although you state some correct things. The Bill of Rights is to protect us from the federal government, and there in the 5th Amendment is the due process clause which binds the federal government -

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

(04-17-2025 11:12 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:48 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:41 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:25 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:21 PM)maximus Wrote:  Stfu and try and comprehend what he posted dummy

Sure, why doesn't everyone just have namecalling fits and don't DARE answer a question about the Constitution with a Constitutional quote. What a role model you are!

You do understand due process isn't the same for 20 million ******* who were allowed to illegally waltz into our sovereign country.... you do know this right lite brite?

Again, read the Constitution -

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

Due process is required for any person, including "20 million *******". Not any citizen, not any lawful immigrant, ANY PERSON. If said person has illegally waltzed into our sovereign country, then a hearing before a duly authorized court which finds they entered illegally and orders them removed constitutes that due process. What you want done is entirely possible here, but there is a way to go about it in a society governed by the rule of law. If the rule of law is not respected now, don't expect us to respect it when we're back on top.

Seriously??? What a crock! No rational person can reasonably expect the Democrats to follow the "rule of law" when they are back on top (or any other time).

We wouldn't have this problem of "20 million" illegals invading out country over the last 4 years if your side (the Dems) had followed the "rule of law" back when they just were on top. They shamefully and intentionally thumbed their noses at all of the existing immigration laws at great expense to our country.

The illegal immigration problem far predates the Biden administration, and both parties are guilty. I actually applaud Trump for taking it on, although as usual when he tries to do something laudable he skirts the rules and takes it too far.

And if you think you've suffered under lawless Democratic administrations, you haven't seen anything yet. Trump is breaking new ground in violating norms, rules and laws every day. You'd all better hope that the courts reign the mad king in and the administration finds a way to do many of these things you want done within the law (and for deportations, this is VERY doable). If these actions stand then we're similarly going to get some things that need doing done one day, without needing to worry about what the Constitution says on the matter. I don't think that's the right way to do things, but I would love some of the policies a lawless Democrat might pursue. You will hate all of it.

Dems haven't followed the "rule of law" for as long as I can remember. The list is long. I posted about 15 or 20 major things a few days ago, just since 2015.

Trump hasn't come close to anything like that, and he has already been in office over 4 years.

So Gamenole comes in after a somewhat prolonged absence and says a big word salad that amounts to "Orange Man Bad; Republicans Bad; Democrats Good" just like every other leftist who's ever posted in this subforum since 2015. Got it.

Gamenole, your "band" is nothing more than a "tribute/Greatest Hits" band. The problem is you're losing fans more and more, and all due to your doubling down on rhetoric that has been proven to be divisive and even downright dangerous. Now I won't insult you because I still think you're a reasonable person. But remember, your side created this problem. Don't get mad at us for trying to solve it for good. (Even though you will because, well, "ORANGE MAN BAD! REPUBLICANS BAD! REEEEEE! ")

Don't like how we're handling things? Come up with an alternative. Hell, come up with a new idea and quit dragging out the same old tired bullcrap. Until your side does, expect all of the squawking y'all have been doing to fall on deaf ears.

(04-18-2025 06:50 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  So Gamenole comes in after a somewhat prolonged absence and says a big word salad that amounts to "Orange Man Bad; Republicans Bad; Democrats Good" just like every other leftist who's ever posted in this subforum since 2015. Got it.

Gamenole, your "band" is nothing more than a "tribute/Greatest Hits" band. The problem is you're losing fans more and more, and all due to your doubling down on rhetoric that has been proven to be divisive and even downright dangerous. Now I won't insult you because I still think you're a reasonable person. But remember, your side created this problem. Don't get mad at us for trying to solve it for good. (Even though you will because, well, "ORANGE MAN BAD! REPUBLICANS BAD! REEEEEE! ")

Don't like how we're handling things? Come up with an alternative. Hell, come up with a new idea and quit dragging out the same old tired bullcrap. Until your side does, expect all of the squawking y'all have been doing to fall on deaf ears.

True, the Democratic brand has suffered. But "ORANGE MAN BAD" gains more fans every day thanks to the chaos of this administration, and all we need is to be preferable to the alternative. Trump was re-elected to bring prices down and secure the border, and while he's working on the 2nd his actions have been counter productive on the 1st and most important issue for the electorate. It's the economy, stupid.

Just wait, 4 years like this and we'll be back in the White House itching to solve long term problems that your side has made worse. We'll fight you on fixing immigration in an unconstitutional manner, but if you win it'll provide a usual precedent. For example, without needing to follow that pesky Constitution there's a lot we can do to diminish the scourge of gun violence that the GOP has stymied any efforts to address.

The alternative? That's easy, lets take this issue of illegal immigration. Hire more immigration judges and follow the law, illegal aliens are absolutely deportable after a hearing has provided them due process. The vast majority can and should be sent home, and the administration has shown it knows how to work the levers of power and force most countries to accept their own citizens back. Just don't screw up the easy stuff, like deporting the man in this case to the ONE COUNTRY in the world a court says he can't be sent to. POTUS is perfectly capable of making some phone calls to "shithole countries" and finding one to take this guy, or any other in a similar situation.

The Biden administration broke more laws than all other presidencies combined. There are so many examples but to keep it within the framework of this thread, the key one is the blanket mass parole that the administration undertook allowing millions to enter the U.S. illegally.

Under the INA, paroling foreign nationals into the U.S. shall be done “only on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit.”

Mass parole is inherently illegal and usurps the laws set forth by Congress. Mayorkas and Biden should have been impeached for dereliction of duty at best on this one issue alone. And probably treason especially when you consider the number of Russian and Chinese spies that were likely allowed to infiltrate so many sects of our society.

(04-18-2025 07:01 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 06:50 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  So Gamenole comes in after a somewhat prolonged absence and says a big word salad that amounts to "Orange Man Bad; Republicans Bad; Democrats Good" just like every other leftist who's ever posted in this subforum since 2015. Got it.

Gamenole, your "band" is nothing more than a "tribute/Greatest Hits" band. The problem is you're losing fans more and more, and all due to your doubling down on rhetoric that has been proven to be divisive and even downright dangerous. Now I won't insult you because I still think you're a reasonable person. But remember, your side created this problem. Don't get mad at us for trying to solve it for good. (Even though you will because, well, "ORANGE MAN BAD! REPUBLICANS BAD! REEEEEE! ")

Don't like how we're handling things? Come up with an alternative. Hell, come up with a new idea and quit dragging out the same old tired bullcrap. Until your side does, expect all of the squawking y'all have been doing to fall on deaf ears.

True, the Democratic brand has suffered. But "ORANGE MAN BAD" gains more fans every day thanks to the chaos of this administration, and all we need is to be preferable to the alternative. Trump was re-elected to bring prices down and secure the border, and while he's working on the 2nd his actions have been counter productive on the 1st and most important issue for the electorate. It's the economy, stupid.

Just wait, 4 years like this and we'll be back in the White House itching to solve long term problems that your side has made worse. We'll fight you on fixing immigration in an unconstitutional manner, but if you win it'll provide a usual precedent. For example, without needing to follow that pesky Constitution there's a lot we can do to diminish the scourge of gun violence that the GOP has stymied any efforts to address.

The alternative? That's easy, lets take this issue of illegal immigration. Hire more immigration judges and follow the law, illegal aliens are absolutely deportable after a hearing has provided them due process. The vast majority can and should be sent home, and the administration has shown it knows how to work the levers of power and force most countries to accept their own citizens back. Just don't screw up the easy stuff, like deporting the man in this case to the ONE COUNTRY in the world a court says he can't be sent to. POTUS is perfectly capable of making some phone calls to "shithole countries" and finding one to take this guy, or any other in a similar situation.

The gang Abrego Garcia said he feared in El Salvador doesn't even exist now. And he's in prison. About as safe as he could ever be, although it's no guarantee.

Running 20M illegals through court proceedings isn't practical. And that isn't the Rs fault.

(04-18-2025 07:04 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  The Biden administration broke more laws than all other presidencies combined. There are so many examples but to keep it within the framework of this thread, the key one is the blanket mass parole that the administration undertook allowing millions to enter the U.S. illegally.

Under the INA, paroling foreign nationals into the U.S. shall be done “only on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit.”

Mass parole is inherently illegal and usurps the laws set forth by Congress. Mayorkas and Biden should have been impeached for dereliction of duty at best on this one issue alone. And probably treason especially when you consider the number of Russian and Chinese spies that were likely allowed to infiltrate so many sects of our society.

Which is exactly why I think due process has to be suspended or eliminated in this particular case, to counteract the illegal act of letting them into the country in the first place.

This is unprecedented and unforeseen, a deliberate attack meant to flood the country with permanent Dem voters.

But so far, we're really only talking about this one idiot. All the ones they are chasing already have deportation orders.

(04-18-2025 07:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 07:01 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 06:50 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  So Gamenole comes in after a somewhat prolonged absence and says a big word salad that amounts to "Orange Man Bad; Republicans Bad; Democrats Good" just like every other leftist who's ever posted in this subforum since 2015. Got it.

Gamenole, your "band" is nothing more than a "tribute/Greatest Hits" band. The problem is you're losing fans more and more, and all due to your doubling down on rhetoric that has been proven to be divisive and even downright dangerous. Now I won't insult you because I still think you're a reasonable person. But remember, your side created this problem. Don't get mad at us for trying to solve it for good. (Even though you will because, well, "ORANGE MAN BAD! REPUBLICANS BAD! REEEEEE! ")

Don't like how we're handling things? Come up with an alternative. Hell, come up with a new idea and quit dragging out the same old tired bullcrap. Until your side does, expect all of the squawking y'all have been doing to fall on deaf ears.

True, the Democratic brand has suffered. But "ORANGE MAN BAD" gains more fans every day thanks to the chaos of this administration, and all we need is to be preferable to the alternative. Trump was re-elected to bring prices down and secure the border, and while he's working on the 2nd his actions have been counter productive on the 1st and most important issue for the electorate. It's the economy, stupid.

Just wait, 4 years like this and we'll be back in the White House itching to solve long term problems that your side has made worse. We'll fight you on fixing immigration in an unconstitutional manner, but if you win it'll provide a usual precedent. For example, without needing to follow that pesky Constitution there's a lot we can do to diminish the scourge of gun violence that the GOP has stymied any efforts to address.

The alternative? That's easy, lets take this issue of illegal immigration. Hire more immigration judges and follow the law, illegal aliens are absolutely deportable after a hearing has provided them due process. The vast majority can and should be sent home, and the administration has shown it knows how to work the levers of power and force most countries to accept their own citizens back. Just don't screw up the easy stuff, like deporting the man in this case to the ONE COUNTRY in the world a court says he can't be sent to. POTUS is perfectly capable of making some phone calls to "shithole countries" and finding one to take this guy, or any other in a similar situation.

The gang Abrego Garcia said he feared in El Salvador doesn't even exist now. And he's in prison. About as safe as he could ever be, although it's no guarantee.

Running 20M illegals through court proceedings isn't practical. And that isn't the Rs fault.

I've already said my piece. If he and anybody else on this board want to keep parrotting leftist talking points, they're free to do so. And I have every right to respond in kind. That is, if I choose to respond at all.

Andy, this board needs an enema! (Also, I just wanted to post the pic of Jack Nicholson as the Joker because the line I posted is a slight reference to him saying the same thing in Batman (1989).)

(04-18-2025 07:25 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 07:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 07:01 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 06:50 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  So Gamenole comes in after a somewhat prolonged absence and says a big word salad that amounts to "Orange Man Bad; Republicans Bad; Democrats Good" just like every other leftist who's ever posted in this subforum since 2015. Got it.

Gamenole, your "band" is nothing more than a "tribute/Greatest Hits" band. The problem is you're losing fans more and more, and all due to your doubling down on rhetoric that has been proven to be divisive and even downright dangerous. Now I won't insult you because I still think you're a reasonable person. But remember, your side created this problem. Don't get mad at us for trying to solve it for good. (Even though you will because, well, "ORANGE MAN BAD! REPUBLICANS BAD! REEEEEE! ")

Don't like how we're handling things? Come up with an alternative. Hell, come up with a new idea and quit dragging out the same old tired bullcrap. Until your side does, expect all of the squawking y'all have been doing to fall on deaf ears.

True, the Democratic brand has suffered. But "ORANGE MAN BAD" gains more fans every day thanks to the chaos of this administration, and all we need is to be preferable to the alternative. Trump was re-elected to bring prices down and secure the border, and while he's working on the 2nd his actions have been counter productive on the 1st and most important issue for the electorate. It's the economy, stupid.

Just wait, 4 years like this and we'll be back in the White House itching to solve long term problems that your side has made worse. We'll fight you on fixing immigration in an unconstitutional manner, but if you win it'll provide a usual precedent. For example, without needing to follow that pesky Constitution there's a lot we can do to diminish the scourge of gun violence that the GOP has stymied any efforts to address.

The alternative? That's easy, lets take this issue of illegal immigration. Hire more immigration judges and follow the law, illegal aliens are absolutely deportable after a hearing has provided them due process. The vast majority can and should be sent home, and the administration has shown it knows how to work the levers of power and force most countries to accept their own citizens back. Just don't screw up the easy stuff, like deporting the man in this case to the ONE COUNTRY in the world a court says he can't be sent to. POTUS is perfectly capable of making some phone calls to "shithole countries" and finding one to take this guy, or any other in a similar situation.

The gang Abrego Garcia said he feared in El Salvador doesn't even exist now. And he's in prison. About as safe as he could ever be, although it's no guarantee.

Running 20M illegals through court proceedings isn't practical. And that isn't the Rs fault.

I've already said my piece. If he and anybody else on this board want to keep parrotting leftist talking points, they're free to do so. And I have every right to respond in kind. That is, if I choose to respond at all.

Andy, this board needs an enema!

Agree, I started to mention above that GN is regurgitating all the arguments we have rehashed over and over in this thread, simply b/c he didn't read all of it.

AAA, it is a long thread about a very contentious subject, to be fair. I can't really say I blame him for not reading it at first. (I'm not taking GN's side, for the record, because he can always go back and read it after posting.)

(04-18-2025 07:34 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  AAA, it is a long thread, to be fair. (I'm not taking GN's side, for the record.) I might have a hand in making it a long thread. >_> lol

If it's a thread this long, just read it, if you didn't keep up. We're regurgitating all the same arguments.

(04-17-2025 10:23 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:48 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:41 PM)maximus Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:25 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  Sure, why doesn't everyone just have namecalling fits and don't DARE answer a question about the Constitution with a Constitutional quote. What a role model you are!

You do understand due process isn't the same for 20 million ******* who were allowed to illegally waltz into our sovereign country.... you do know this right lite brite?

Again, read the Constitution -

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

Due process is required for any person, including "20 million *******". Not any citizen, not any lawful immigrant, ANY PERSON. If said person has illegally waltzed into our sovereign country, then a hearing before a duly authorized court which finds they entered illegally and orders them removed constitutes that due process. What you want done is entirely possible here, but there is a way to go about it in a society governed by the rule of law. If the rule of law is not respected now, don't expect us to respect it when we're back on top.

Why did you leave out the most important part of what you quoted?

Quote:Section 1 Rights
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; [/b]nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Well you've bolded the citizenship clause, and we absolutely agree this man is not a citizen of the United States. I don't think anyone even in the craziest cesspools of the far left suggests otherwise.

Take a look at the next sentence, first it says that no state can abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS, and continues to say that they cannot deprive any PERSON of life, liberty or property without due process. The framers used different words, and so the government CAN abridge the privileges and immunities of a person who is not a citizen. However they drew the protection from deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process with the broadest brush possible, applying it to any PERSON.

If you wish this changed, there is a process to amend the Constitution. Or if you can convince 5 Justices of the Supreme Court it means something other than what it says, joila. But absent one of these occurrences, the deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process of law is a Constitutional violation.

These are not two separate clauses. The opening statement says all persons naturalized or citizens and then in the latter part of the clause references these persons again a second time in reference the pursuit of life, liberty, or justice. There is no inference here that it should apply to people not in these two categories and further the Constitution afforded Congress latitude for developing the laws pertaining to naturalization in Article I Section 8.

I don't understand how people can take such a broad interpretation of this clause. If this were parsed out into two separate statements then it would have different meaning, but it doesn't. Moreover, the laws establishing our sovereignty on this issue makes clear the limitations of due process for individuals who violate that sovereignty and break our immigration laws.

Unfortunately, the courts have continued to whittle away at this very narrow clause with over interpretation of this issue generally along political appointment party lines. Reasonable people not looking at that clause politically would see that it's one statement not two. The only distinction for two independent elements of this issue are as yg pointed out. One is federal and the second is limitation on the states. But as stated the courts have watered this meaning down over time and the Supreme Court recently said that TdA members must be afforded due process before being removed under the Aliens Enemy Act. In that context, they have basically defined due process as notification of removal to allow reasonable time for the bad guys to file a habeus case if they so wish to do so.

(04-18-2025 07:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 07:01 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 06:50 AM)GeminiCoog Wrote:  So Gamenole comes in after a somewhat prolonged absence and says a big word salad that amounts to "Orange Man Bad; Republicans Bad; Democrats Good" just like every other leftist who's ever posted in this subforum since 2015. Got it.

Gamenole, your "band" is nothing more than a "tribute/Greatest Hits" band. The problem is you're losing fans more and more, and all due to your doubling down on rhetoric that has been proven to be divisive and even downright dangerous. Now I won't insult you because I still think you're a reasonable person. But remember, your side created this problem. Don't get mad at us for trying to solve it for good. (Even though you will because, well, "ORANGE MAN BAD! REPUBLICANS BAD! REEEEEE! ")

Don't like how we're handling things? Come up with an alternative. Hell, come up with a new idea and quit dragging out the same old tired bullcrap. Until your side does, expect all of the squawking y'all have been doing to fall on deaf ears.

True, the Democratic brand has suffered. But "ORANGE MAN BAD" gains more fans every day thanks to the chaos of this administration, and all we need is to be preferable to the alternative. Trump was re-elected to bring prices down and secure the border, and while he's working on the 2nd his actions have been counter productive on the 1st and most important issue for the electorate. It's the economy, stupid.

Just wait, 4 years like this and we'll be back in the White House itching to solve long term problems that your side has made worse. We'll fight you on fixing immigration in an unconstitutional manner, but if you win it'll provide a usual precedent. For example, without needing to follow that pesky Constitution there's a lot we can do to diminish the scourge of gun violence that the GOP has stymied any efforts to address.

The alternative? That's easy, lets take this issue of illegal immigration. Hire more immigration judges and follow the law, illegal aliens are absolutely deportable after a hearing has provided them due process. The vast majority can and should be sent home, and the administration has shown it knows how to work the levers of power and force most countries to accept their own citizens back. Just don't screw up the easy stuff, like deporting the man in this case to the ONE COUNTRY in the world a court says he can't be sent to. POTUS is perfectly capable of making some phone calls to "shithole countries" and finding one to take this guy, or any other in a similar situation.

The gang Abrego Garcia said he feared in El Salvador doesn't even exist now. And he's in prison. About as safe as he could ever be, although it's no guarantee.

Running 20M illegals through court proceedings isn't practical. And that isn't the Rs fault.

If that's true, then he may well no longer have a reasonable fear of persecution if sent home. And it doesn't matter if he's protected there or not, what matters is that the federal court ruling saying he cannot be sent to El Salvador has not been overturned. It must either be appealed or obeyed, and it sounds like the administration might well be successful if they appeal it. That's the way to proceed here, not by flouting the court's order and setting a bad precedent that we'll bite you with later.

(04-17-2025 09:09 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 07:31 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 05:59 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 05:33 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 05:27 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Dont break the law. Youll have liberty.

Covidtards lecturing about liberty

Gfy

Yes, the Trump admin should stop breaking the law and denying people the liberty afforded by the constitution. Thanks for agreeing for once.

But the Biden administration who broke the law thousands and thousands of times of day was ok with you? They literally oversaw the world’s largest human smuggling operation in the history of the world. And helped cartels find a new line of business that has endangered hundreds of thousands of more lives. The number of people killed, raped, or had every penny they owned extorted from them is unbearable for me to even think about. You can’t be serious!

The Biden approach to the border was horrendous.

And I (and many others) have zero problem with a far stronger border policy, *and* having a far more active deportation regime for illegal aliens.

When it gets to denying due process in full, that is way beyond the line.

And no, your giant whadabout excuse simply is..... a giant whadabout that attempts to retionalize and normalize the Trump excess.

Sorry, there is no fing 'war' with Venezuela that allows deportation of Venezuelans with no due process -- which is precisely what happened with what appears two planeloads last week. I will grant you if there was a war with Venezuela, the Trump actions under the EAA would have been proper and legal. There isnt. And its not.

it looks like Abrego got caught up in the party that the Trump regime kicked off last week with the EAA. In his case, its a triple problem. In addition to the double problem of a blatant thin ass lie to rationalize insta-depoortations, and the insta-deportations under the EAA occurring with a lack of due process, Abrego has the added problem that he had a pre-existing hold, from a competent previous hearing, barring the actions that happened. That is, he had the results of his previous application of due process washed away automatically. Kind of fing grotesque.

Again -- do it correctly. If the detainees were processed in accordance with the standards of due process, thats great. From the record provided in Boasberg's court, that may not have happened.

From the record in Xinis's court, its pretty obvious that Abrego wasnt afforded *any* due process when his 'do not deport' order was violated from what appears to be on a whim.

Look, this isnt a defense of the Biden border policy. Its stupid to use that as the grand whadabout to justify and rationalize executive overreach and what appears to be a pretty stark violation of due process.

I guess the Republican stance should now be 'Fk due process, its not so great.'

And no, being a champion of due process should not be solely a liberal thing. Infortunately that seems to be the trajectory.

The Aliens Enemy Act doesn’t require an actual declaration of war. Just because it was previously used during war and that war is one of the predicates doesn’t mean war is the only use case. One of the use cases is predatory incursion. Ok, what is predatory incursion?

Please use the actual words, not a cherry picked subset.

The actual words that you speak of in the Act are "invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government"

Quote:A "predatory incursion" refers to a form of attack or invasion, typically associated with military or political actions, that involves the aggressive and often harmful entry of one party into the territory or affairs of another. It's often used in contexts where an alien entity is deemed a threat, like a foreign government or a criminal gang.

And per the act, it is limited to those "by any foreign nation or government".

TdA is not a "foreign nation", nor is it a "foreign .... government".

Nor is it an agent of the above.

Quote:This is the context for the Trump adminstration’s use of the Act. The administration has determined that the Maduro regime intentionally emptied its prisons full of TdA members (a criminal gang and now an FTO) with the explicit intent of sowing chaos in the United States.

And it still doesnt meet the terms of the Act, let alone the 'intent' has pretty much zero basis from what I can see.

And yes, Ive read the EO. Did so a few weeks ago.

Quote:You can take umbrage with that if you want but a) you don’t have access to the classified intelligence used to make that determination

And if it there, it should be released. Otherwise it seems to be made up ****. Trump doesnt have a good record with truth telling if you havent noticed. And is seemingly starting a good record of simply making **** up on the fly to meet his own political ends.

So no, I really dont believe the conspiratorial link provided in the EO.

Quote:and b) it’s no different than Obama declaring ISIS fair game under the Authorization for Use of Military Force that was granted only for the war against al-Qa’ida.

I think it is, since the EAA wasnt invoked for the Obama stuff. I dont have a problem with Trump labeling TdA a terrorist organization -- to the extent I agree with the definition of Terrorist Organization in Bush's EO that is the basis for naming.

That definition is amazingly broad, to the extent it potentially covers any criminal conspiracy for any violent act and has any political bent. In that context, one should designate the Proud Boys as a such an organization. (Which for the record, I dont think would be proper..)

And when designated -- again the EO places the 'members' into the class to be removable. Which implicates some level of due process to remove them.

Quote:The executive branch in both cases determined that it was necessary and applicable to use these authorities to address a threat to the United States and American way of life. But you won’t here this from media that’s become nothing but a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party.

Almost no one supports allowing real alien gangbangers and real alien shitbirds to stay in the United States. And application of due process is a fundamental construct of the foundation of this republic.

No problems getting rid of them -- but do it the right way.

I dont know how alarmed I should be hearing a 20 year veteran of a rather well respected LE arm seemingly accepting, and promoting, a system of summary justice.

Want to add -- thank you for the very informative conversations.

(04-18-2025 08:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  No problems getting rid of them -- but do it the right way.

This sums up the entirety of the issue. It isn't hard, which makes me suspect that flouting the law is part of the point.

(04-18-2025 08:06 AM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-18-2025 08:03 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  No problems getting rid of them -- but do it the right way.

This sums up the entirety of the issue. It isn't hard, which makes me suspect that flouting the law is part of the point.

Throw em all out. Anyway is the right way.

Jail those who help them.

(04-17-2025 10:37 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:23 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 10:12 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:48 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-17-2025 09:41 PM)maximus Wrote:  You do understand due process isn't the same for 20 million ******* who were allowed to illegally waltz into our sovereign country.... you do know this right lite brite?

Again, read the Constitution -

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

Due process is required for any person, including "20 million *******". Not any citizen, not any lawful immigrant, ANY PERSON. If said person has illegally waltzed into our sovereign country, then a hearing before a duly authorized court which finds they entered illegally and orders them removed constitutes that due process. What you want done is entirely possible here, but there is a way to go about it in a society governed by the rule of law. If the rule of law is not respected now, don't expect us to respect it when we're back on top.

Why did you leave out the most important part of what you quoted?

Quote:Section 1 Rights
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; [/b]nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Well you've bolded the citizenship clause, and we absolutely agree this man is not a citizen of the United States. I don't think anyone even in the craziest cesspools of the far left suggests otherwise.

Take a look at the next sentence, first it says that no state can abridge the privileges or immunities of CITIZENS, and continues to say that they cannot deprive any PERSON of life, liberty or property without due process. The framers used different words, and so the government CAN abridge the privileges and immunities of a person who is not a citizen. However they drew the protection from deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process with the broadest brush possible, applying it to any PERSON.

If you wish this changed, there is a process to amend the Constitution. Or if you can convince 5 Justices of the Supreme Court it means something other than what it says, joila. But absent one of these occurrences, the deprivation of life, liberty or property without due process of law is a Constitutional violation.

Tell me what is not in there? Fourteenth Amendment says NOTHING about the federal government and strictly limits it to STATES. The bill of right is to protect us from the feds

Try the 5th amendment. But most people use the 14th amendment for the easier answer.