(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:09 PM)SgtGoldenEagle Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:35 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  And our country continues to deteriorate....

Oh really? I heard that same stuff when Jim Crow ended and people were saying well our nation is going to hell in a hand basket because now those black people (actually used another word I don't use) are sub-human, stupid, lazy and inferior in all ways.

It is also sad to think because people don't have the same sexual orientation that they shouldn't have the same rights and while they can be used for their talents, they can't be allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that a hetrosexual person is entitled to. I served in 2 branches of the U.S. Military and I could swear I was part of trying to see that people had those three chances. I remember when if a white man dated a black woman (or vice versa) that both would suffer from those who didn't think mixed race dating was right, and many were cheated of enjoying a meaningful relationship because someone didn't care about those words in our constitution. I didn't serve this country and suffer each day from injuries I got in service to this nation to see people denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You obviously don't believe in God or what he instructs us to do in our lives. See Sodom and Gomarrah and what happened to them because of same sex appetites. God tells us to NOT tolarate anything against his laws and commandments. He tells us that we as males are to love and marry females,and be fruitful and multiply. Our leaders and citizens trying to eliminate God from our society will be the downfall of our country. God didn't approve of what happened blacks in this country,and i am not sure why you would even bring that up. However, God does abhore same sex love and marriage. Totally apples and oranges.

And this is according to the Bible, right? Don't we have freedom of religion in this country? What if somebody's religion doesn't see things the same way?

(04-29-2013 02:18 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:09 PM)SgtGoldenEagle Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:35 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  And our country continues to deteriorate....

Oh really? I heard that same stuff when Jim Crow ended and people were saying well our nation is going to hell in a hand basket because now those black people (actually used another word I don't use) are sub-human, stupid, lazy and inferior in all ways.

It is also sad to think because people don't have the same sexual orientation that they shouldn't have the same rights and while they can be used for their talents, they can't be allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that a hetrosexual person is entitled to. I served in 2 branches of the U.S. Military and I could swear I was part of trying to see that people had those three chances. I remember when if a white man dated a black woman (or vice versa) that both would suffer from those who didn't think mixed race dating was right, and many were cheated of enjoying a meaningful relationship because someone didn't care about those words in our constitution. I didn't serve this country and suffer each day from injuries I got in service to this nation to see people denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You obviously don't believe in God or what he instructs us to do in our lives. See Sodom and Gomarrah and what happened to them because of same sex appetites. God tells us to NOT tolarate anything against his laws and commandments. He tells us that we as males are to love and marry females,and be fruitful and multiply. Our leaders and citizens trying to eliminate God from our society will be the downfall of our country. God didn't approve of what happened blacks in this country,and i am not sure why you would even bring that up. However, God does abhore same sex love and marriage. Totally apples and oranges.

And this is according to the Bible, right? Don't we have freedom of religion in this country? What if somebody's religion doesn't see things the same way?

From my experience, most Christians I have encountered don't care about freedom of religion in this country. Most I have encountered only worry about the freedom of shoving Christianity down others' throats.

(04-29-2013 02:11 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:04 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:01 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:23 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:50 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Which was exactly my point. But unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world where people don't get labels (gay, fat, black, slut, etc). It will take another generation to get to that level.

I gotta say, it will be very interesting to see who is the first athlete to openly come out as a slut

It does not applies just to athletes. Kim Kardashian is an example. She's been labeled a slut by the gossip media but she's not the first nor the last woman who's had multiple relationships with men. And she sells magazines so it tells you people still make a big deal about it even though it shouldn't be none of our business who she's dating or sleeping with.

I don't know if that's a good example because she pretty much makes her living from being on the headlines of gossip media.

But...there's certainly a valid point in the differnece in how men and women are perceived for being sexually active.

Well maybe using Kim Kardashian was not the best choice. I've never watched any of her shows, in fact I had no clue who she was except she dated Reggie Bush awhile back. But everytime I go to Target or Kroger there she is on every magazine cover at the checkout lane.

But I agree with you in how sexually active men and women get labeled differently. A woman is a "slut" a "whore", a man is a "casanova" a "ladies man". It's funny every time I watch Mad Men I come to the conclusion that even though we have come far as a society, some things still haven't changed since then.

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm openly heterosexual. Does that make me some kind of hero?

Have you been fired for being straight? Beaten in school for liking girls? Ever denied housing for who you are? Will you be denied a marriage license at any county clerk's office if you want to marry a woman? I'm sure the answer is no.

If if has been as bad as you are making it out, then how did Jay Edgar Hoover get to be the head of the FBI? How have Billy Jean King and Martina Navatrolova gotten as far as they have? Why is the Roman and Greek cultures looked upon so fondly, even though their socities were open to it? How could so many clergymen be engaging in it and there have been no backlash that I could see?

I agree with you that there is bigotry and hate in this World, but I submit to you that most people don't care about this issue; one way or the other, because people know that this stuff happens. And if you are going to mention the brutalities that occur, then why don't you also state that until recent times a gay White man has always been able to advance further in his career and life than minorities and women.

(04-29-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  How could so many clergymen be engaging in it

You just invalidated your entire response whether it made sense or not. What the Catholic clergy engaged in is not homosexuality. It is abusing children who don't have the mental capability to consent.

(04-29-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm openly heterosexual. Does that make me some kind of hero?

Have you been fired for being straight? Beaten in school for liking girls? Ever denied housing for who you are? Will you be denied a marriage license at any county clerk's office if you want to marry a woman? I'm sure the answer is no.

If if has been as bad as you are making it out, then how did Jay Edgar Hoover get to be the head of the FBI? How have Billy Jean King and Martina Navatrolova gotten as far as they have? Why is the Roman and Greek cultures looked upon so fondly, even though their socities were open to it? How could so many clergymen be engaging in it and there have been no backlash that I could see?

I agree with you that there is bigotry and hate in this World, but I submit to you that most people don't care about this issue; one way or the other, because people know that this stuff happens. And if you are going to mention the brutalities that occur, then why don't you also state that until recent times a gay White man has always been able to advance further in his career and life than minorities and women.

It's not me making these things up, it's reality. Tell me, was J Edgar Hoover allowed to live his homosexuality openly? People knew or at least suspected he was gay and had a romantic relationship with one of his staff members but was he allowed to live openly about that? Nope. How many gay men had to get married and live a lie just to live on what society accepted as "normal" (straight marriage). Also for some strange reason lesbians get more acceptance than gay men.

If people didn't care about this issue, why are we still talking about this topic in 2013? Because it's still an issue whether we like it or not.

(04-29-2013 02:21 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  From my experience, most Christians I have encountered don't care about freedom of religion in this country. Most I have encountered only worry about the freedom of shoving Christianity down others' throats.

i've tried very hard to avoid this thread but did feel I needed to respond to that post. I would wager that the fast majority (nearly all) Christians you've met did not fit that description. In fact, my guess is most people you've known in work, play, school, etc. who were Christian didn't even let on that they were Christian. You notice the handful of pushy Christians and labeled them all as such because it fits the mold you want. The Westboro Baptists and other groups do a great disservice to the majority of Christians because of their activist behavior.

I say this because I've worked in several professions, am active in my community and attended public schools and have rarely (in fact it's been years) had a Christian try to push their belief on me in person. I've been amazed on numerous occasions to find out a co-worker or associate was a Deacon or Elder or Youth Leader, etc. I knew they were good people but knew nothing of their Christian life until later.

Of course, if you're living in a Muslim community or urban alternative lifestyle community, you may not meet many Christians to begin with....

(04-29-2013 02:29 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  How could so many clergymen be engaging in it

You just invalidated your entire response whether it made sense or not. What the Catholic clergy engaged in is not homosexuality. It is abusing children who don't have the mental capability to consent.

You assumed something that I did not state, therefore your point is invalidated. Abusing a child is not the same as two adults engaging in a consenual act. That is not what I wrote, that is what you assumed. There are clergy people who engage in the acts and they don't involve children. So read what someone states and don't assume what they state.

(04-29-2013 02:34 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:21 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  From my experience, most Christians I have encountered don't care about freedom of religion in this country. Most I have encountered only worry about the freedom of shoving Christianity down others' throats.

i've tried very hard to avoid this thread but did feel I needed to respond to that post. I would wager that the fast majority (nearly all) Christians you've met did not fit that description. In fact, my guess is most people you've known in work, play, school, etc. who were Christian didn't even let on that they were Christian. You notice the handful of pushy Christians and labeled them all as such because it fits the mold you want. The Westboro Baptists and other groups do a great disservice to the majority of Christians because of their activist behavior.

I say this because I've worked in several professions, am active in my community and attended public schools and have rarely (in fact it's been years) had a Christian try to push their belief on me in person. I've been amazed on numerous occasions to find out a co-worker or associate was a Deacon or Elder or Youth Leader, etc. I knew they were good people but knew nothing of their Christian life until later.

Of course, if you're living in a Muslim community or urban alternative lifestyle community, you may not meet many Christians to begin with....

I'm sorry, the ones that I know are Christian because they identified themselves as such. I don't assume everyone I meet who doesn't identify their religious beliefs is a Christian.

(04-29-2013 02:21 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:18 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:09 PM)SgtGoldenEagle Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:35 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  And our country continues to deteriorate....

Oh really? I heard that same stuff when Jim Crow ended and people were saying well our nation is going to hell in a hand basket because now those black people (actually used another word I don't use) are sub-human, stupid, lazy and inferior in all ways.

It is also sad to think because people don't have the same sexual orientation that they shouldn't have the same rights and while they can be used for their talents, they can't be allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that a hetrosexual person is entitled to. I served in 2 branches of the U.S. Military and I could swear I was part of trying to see that people had those three chances. I remember when if a white man dated a black woman (or vice versa) that both would suffer from those who didn't think mixed race dating was right, and many were cheated of enjoying a meaningful relationship because someone didn't care about those words in our constitution. I didn't serve this country and suffer each day from injuries I got in service to this nation to see people denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You obviously don't believe in God or what he instructs us to do in our lives. See Sodom and Gomarrah and what happened to them because of same sex appetites. God tells us to NOT tolarate anything against his laws and commandments. He tells us that we as males are to love and marry females,and be fruitful and multiply. Our leaders and citizens trying to eliminate God from our society will be the downfall of our country. God didn't approve of what happened blacks in this country,and i am not sure why you would even bring that up. However, God does abhore same sex love and marriage. Totally apples and oranges.

And this is according to the Bible, right? Don't we have freedom of religion in this country? What if somebody's religion doesn't see things the same way?

From my experience, most Christians I have encountered don't care about freedom of religion in this country. Most I have encountered only worry about the freedom of shoving Christianity down others' throats.

Christians or Christianity can't be shoved down anyone's throat, because a person must freely accept that Christ is their Savior. It looks like you don't believe and I am sorry for you that you don't. The Lord didn't die for everyone, or it would have been in vain, just those who will and eventually will accept him as their savior. It is not too late for you.

Sorry guys but this does not make him a hero in my book anymore than Wilt Chamberlains bedding 1000 women. You think it's great, good for you but your idea is different from mine so I must be the one that's wrong. Don't worry, in the end we'll ALL find out what God thinks of it. As for right now I don't hate them it is what it is and if you all think that they carry a special gene that make them that way so be it. I'm a Christian and I don't approve of this behavior and I'm not condoning it anymore than that of a pedophile because it is "an abomination to God". A sin is a sin is a sin. 'Nuff said on my part.

(04-29-2013 02:33 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm openly heterosexual. Does that make me some kind of hero?

Have you been fired for being straight? Beaten in school for liking girls? Ever denied housing for who you are? Will you be denied a marriage license at any county clerk's office if you want to marry a woman? I'm sure the answer is no.

If if has been as bad as you are making it out, then how did Jay Edgar Hoover get to be the head of the FBI? How have Billy Jean King and Martina Navatrolova gotten as far as they have? Why is the Roman and Greek cultures looked upon so fondly, even though their socities were open to it? How could so many clergymen be engaging in it and there have been no backlash that I could see?

I agree with you that there is bigotry and hate in this World, but I submit to you that most people don't care about this issue; one way or the other, because people know that this stuff happens. And if you are going to mention the brutalities that occur, then why don't you also state that until recent times a gay White man has always been able to advance further in his career and life than minorities and women.

It's not me making these things up, it's reality. Tell me, was J Edgar Hoover allowed to live his homosexuality openly? People knew or at least suspected he was gay and had a romantic relationship with one of his staff members but was he allowed to live openly about that? Nope. How many gay men had to get married and live a lie just to live on what society accepted as "normal" (straight marriage). Also for some strange reason lesbians get more acceptance than gay men.

If people didn't care about this issue, why are we still talking about this topic in 2013? Because it's still an issue whether we like it or not.

It was a known fact about Jay Edgar Hoover. It was also a known fact about Rock Hudson, Cary Grant, Randolph Scott, Joan Crawford, Luther Vandross, Teddy Pendergrass, Marilyn Monroe etc., etc. People knew it and they didn't care.

Secondly the whole issue of a civil union is something completely different. If society chooses to recognize that then it will be done. The whole issue to me is one of allowing a life partner the same right as the law recognizes for a husband (man) and a wife (woman). Most things can be passed through a will or an insurance policy anyway, but I can understand the issues related to social security benefits, health insurance benefits, etc.

(04-29-2013 02:38 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:34 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:21 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  From my experience, most Christians I have encountered don't care about freedom of religion in this country. Most I have encountered only worry about the freedom of shoving Christianity down others' throats.

i've tried very hard to avoid this thread but did feel I needed to respond to that post. I would wager that the fast majority (nearly all) Christians you've met did not fit that description. In fact, my guess is most people you've known in work, play, school, etc. who were Christian didn't even let on that they were Christian. You notice the handful of pushy Christians and labeled them all as such because it fits the mold you want. The Westboro Baptists and other groups do a great disservice to the majority of Christians because of their activist behavior.

I say this because I've worked in several professions, am active in my community and attended public schools and have rarely (in fact it's been years) had a Christian try to push their belief on me in person. I've been amazed on numerous occasions to find out a co-worker or associate was a Deacon or Elder or Youth Leader, etc. I knew they were good people but knew nothing of their Christian life until later.

Of course, if you're living in a Muslim community or urban alternative lifestyle community, you may not meet many Christians to begin with....

I'm sorry, the ones that I know are Christian because they identified themselves as such. I don't assume everyone I meet who doesn't identify their religious beliefs is a Christian.

Exactly. There are over 200 million people in this country that profess to being Christian. Nearly all of them live their religious life as a personal experience and don't push their beliefs on others. A handful are pushy and activist. Just as there are probably millions of gays/lesbians in the USA. The vast majority live their lives daily keeping their orientation personal...and for that matter, so do most heterosexuals. A handful are activist and shove it down the throats (no pun intended) of others daily. I don't judge all gays by the actions of a few just as I don't judge all people of religion by the actions of a few or the actions of any demographic group by the actions of a few.

(04-29-2013 02:40 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:33 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm openly heterosexual. Does that make me some kind of hero?

Have you been fired for being straight? Beaten in school for liking girls? Ever denied housing for who you are? Will you be denied a marriage license at any county clerk's office if you want to marry a woman? I'm sure the answer is no.

If if has been as bad as you are making it out, then how did Jay Edgar Hoover get to be the head of the FBI? How have Billy Jean King and Martina Navatrolova gotten as far as they have? Why is the Roman and Greek cultures looked upon so fondly, even though their socities were open to it? How could so many clergymen be engaging in it and there have been no backlash that I could see?

I agree with you that there is bigotry and hate in this World, but I submit to you that most people don't care about this issue; one way or the other, because people know that this stuff happens. And if you are going to mention the brutalities that occur, then why don't you also state that until recent times a gay White man has always been able to advance further in his career and life than minorities and women.

It's not me making these things up, it's reality. Tell me, was J Edgar Hoover allowed to live his homosexuality openly? People knew or at least suspected he was gay and had a romantic relationship with one of his staff members but was he allowed to live openly about that? Nope. How many gay men had to get married and live a lie just to live on what society accepted as "normal" (straight marriage). Also for some strange reason lesbians get more acceptance than gay men.

If people didn't care about this issue, why are we still talking about this topic in 2013? Because it's still an issue whether we like it or not.

It was a known fact about Jay Edgar Hoover. It was also a known fact about Rock Hudson, Cary Grant, Randolph Scott, Joan Crawford, Luther Vandross, Teddy Pendergrass, Marilyn Monroe etc., etc. People knew it and they didn't care.

Secondly the whole issue of a civil union is something completely different. If society chooses to recognize that then it will be done. The whole issue to me is one of allowing a life partner the same right as the law recognizes for a husband (man) and a wife (woman). Most things can be passed through a will or an insurance policy anyway, but I can understand the issues related to social security benefits, health insurance benefits, etc.

Once again, did any of them were vocal about that? Did Joan Crawford ever said, "hey people I'm dating this wonderful woman" or did Rock Hudson ever introduced any of his boyfriends to the media? Nope.

Even in that liberal bastion called Hollywood, coming out of the closet is still risky and might end your career. Everybody knows about John Travolta. Why is he still married to a woman? What about Tom Cruise? Why did it take so long for Ricky Martin to come out of the closet? Do you think his career will be the same? Of course not. Why? Because it's still a big issue for most folks. We can pretend to live in a perfect world where these things don't matter anymore but the truth is we're far from it. It will take another generation where these things don't matter anymore.

All it takes is someone with the right strength and courage to see the better future in reach and grasp it. I hope I can make a difference.

All this gay people coming out stuff is just a giant circus. What pisses me off is everyone flaming Mike Wallace because of his tweet that he doesn't see how anyone could be gay. Just because someone's opinion isn't the "hip cool left wing we're all happy shinny people" opinion doesn't mean it's wrong or shouldn't be able to be freely expressed.

(04-29-2013 02:38 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:21 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:18 PM)blazers9911 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 01:09 PM)SgtGoldenEagle Wrote:  Oh really? I heard that same stuff when Jim Crow ended and people were saying well our nation is going to hell in a hand basket because now those black people (actually used another word I don't use) are sub-human, stupid, lazy and inferior in all ways.

It is also sad to think because people don't have the same sexual orientation that they shouldn't have the same rights and while they can be used for their talents, they can't be allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that a hetrosexual person is entitled to. I served in 2 branches of the U.S. Military and I could swear I was part of trying to see that people had those three chances. I remember when if a white man dated a black woman (or vice versa) that both would suffer from those who didn't think mixed race dating was right, and many were cheated of enjoying a meaningful relationship because someone didn't care about those words in our constitution. I didn't serve this country and suffer each day from injuries I got in service to this nation to see people denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You obviously don't believe in God or what he instructs us to do in our lives. See Sodom and Gomarrah and what happened to them because of same sex appetites. God tells us to NOT tolarate anything against his laws and commandments. He tells us that we as males are to love and marry females,and be fruitful and multiply. Our leaders and citizens trying to eliminate God from our society will be the downfall of our country. God didn't approve of what happened blacks in this country,and i am not sure why you would even bring that up. However, God does abhore same sex love and marriage. Totally apples and oranges.

And this is according to the Bible, right? Don't we have freedom of religion in this country? What if somebody's religion doesn't see things the same way?

From my experience, most Christians I have encountered don't care about freedom of religion in this country. Most I have encountered only worry about the freedom of shoving Christianity down others' throats.

Christians or Christianity can't be shoved down anyone's throat, because a person must freely accept that Christ is their Savior. It looks like you don't believe and I am sorry for you that you don't. The Lord didn't die for everyone, or it would have been in vain, just those who will and eventually will accept him as their savior. It is not too late for you.

What about those that are born in areas of the world where Christianity is not a realistic option. Billions of people are born into places where they'll never get to hear the story of Jesus.

Are they going to hell just because they didn't win the geographic lottery like you did?

A kind and loving and just god is going to send 2/3 of the world to hell because they were born into areas of the world that didn't give them the opportunity to be a part of his religion?

You are a christian because you were born into a nation where christianity is the norm. If you were born in India or Pakistan, you would not be a christian. You are a product of your environment. That is all.

(04-29-2013 02:53 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:40 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:33 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Have you been fired for being straight? Beaten in school for liking girls? Ever denied housing for who you are? Will you be denied a marriage license at any county clerk's office if you want to marry a woman? I'm sure the answer is no.

If if has been as bad as you are making it out, then how did Jay Edgar Hoover get to be the head of the FBI? How have Billy Jean King and Martina Navatrolova gotten as far as they have? Why is the Roman and Greek cultures looked upon so fondly, even though their socities were open to it? How could so many clergymen be engaging in it and there have been no backlash that I could see?

I agree with you that there is bigotry and hate in this World, but I submit to you that most people don't care about this issue; one way or the other, because people know that this stuff happens. And if you are going to mention the brutalities that occur, then why don't you also state that until recent times a gay White man has always been able to advance further in his career and life than minorities and women.

It's not me making these things up, it's reality. Tell me, was J Edgar Hoover allowed to live his homosexuality openly? People knew or at least suspected he was gay and had a romantic relationship with one of his staff members but was he allowed to live openly about that? Nope. How many gay men had to get married and live a lie just to live on what society accepted as "normal" (straight marriage). Also for some strange reason lesbians get more acceptance than gay men.

If people didn't care about this issue, why are we still talking about this topic in 2013? Because it's still an issue whether we like it or not.

It was a known fact about Jay Edgar Hoover. It was also a known fact about Rock Hudson, Cary Grant, Randolph Scott, Joan Crawford, Luther Vandross, Teddy Pendergrass, Marilyn Monroe etc., etc. People knew it and they didn't care.

Secondly the whole issue of a civil union is something completely different. If society chooses to recognize that then it will be done. The whole issue to me is one of allowing a life partner the same right as the law recognizes for a husband (man) and a wife (woman). Most things can be passed through a will or an insurance policy anyway, but I can understand the issues related to social security benefits, health insurance benefits, etc.

Once again, did any of them were vocal about that? Did Joan Crawford ever said, "hey people I'm dating this wonderful woman" or did Rock Hudson ever introduced any of his boyfriends to the media? Nope.

Even in that liberal bastion called Hollywood, coming out of the closet is still risky and might end your career. Everybody knows about John Travolta. Why is he still married to a woman? What about Tom Cruise? Why did it take so long for Ricky Martin to come out of the closet? Do you think his career will be the same? Of course not. Why? Because it's still a big issue for most folks. We can pretend to live in a perfect world where these things don't matter anymore but the truth is we're far from it. It will take another generation where these things don't matter anymore.

I agree with what you're saying but using Hollywood as an example is a bit difficult. These "sex symbols", and that's what movie stars are, will be less likely to come out not just because of the reasons you state but mostly because of money. An actor who is a sex symbol to women has a large demographic he is appealing to but if he comes out, that demographic most likely goes away and he's left with the gay men demographic. Women far outnumber gay men in the US. It's about money and actors/actresses want to appeal to the largest demographic they can.

(04-29-2013 02:45 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:38 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:34 PM)WKUApollo Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:21 PM)EpicNiner Wrote:  From my experience, most Christians I have encountered don't care about freedom of religion in this country. Most I have encountered only worry about the freedom of shoving Christianity down others' throats.

i've tried very hard to avoid this thread but did feel I needed to respond to that post. I would wager that the fast majority (nearly all) Christians you've met did not fit that description. In fact, my guess is most people you've known in work, play, school, etc. who were Christian didn't even let on that they were Christian. You notice the handful of pushy Christians and labeled them all as such because it fits the mold you want. The Westboro Baptists and other groups do a great disservice to the majority of Christians because of their activist behavior.

I say this because I've worked in several professions, am active in my community and attended public schools and have rarely (in fact it's been years) had a Christian try to push their belief on me in person. I've been amazed on numerous occasions to find out a co-worker or associate was a Deacon or Elder or Youth Leader, etc. I knew they were good people but knew nothing of their Christian life until later.

Of course, if you're living in a Muslim community or urban alternative lifestyle community, you may not meet many Christians to begin with....

I'm sorry, the ones that I know are Christian because they identified themselves as such. I don't assume everyone I meet who doesn't identify their religious beliefs is a Christian.

Exactly. There are over 200 million people in this country that profess to being Christian. Nearly all of them live their religious life as a personal experience and don't push their beliefs on others. A handful are pushy and activist. Just as there are probably millions of gays/lesbians in the USA. The vast majority live their lives daily keeping their orientation personal...and for that matter, so do most heterosexuals. A handful are activist and shove it down the throats (no pun intended) of others daily. I don't judge all gays by the actions of a few just as I don't judge all people of religion by the actions of a few or the actions of any demographic group by the actions of a few.

You're right but where's the line between not shoving it down your throat and keeping it hidden. As long as homosexuals can go to the movies or take thier partner to the an office party or share a romantic dinner in public without any ridicule or retribution then I don't think anybody would have a problem. Some people think if a homosexual couple kisses in public (and I'm not talking about a groping, face sucking kiss) then that's "shoving it down your throat" and that's where the disconect lies, imo.

(04-29-2013 02:53 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:40 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:33 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:24 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 02:03 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Have you been fired for being straight? Beaten in school for liking girls? Ever denied housing for who you are? Will you be denied a marriage license at any county clerk's office if you want to marry a woman? I'm sure the answer is no.

If if has been as bad as you are making it out, then how did Jay Edgar Hoover get to be the head of the FBI? How have Billy Jean King and Martina Navatrolova gotten as far as they have? Why is the Roman and Greek cultures looked upon so fondly, even though their socities were open to it? How could so many clergymen be engaging in it and there have been no backlash that I could see?

I agree with you that there is bigotry and hate in this World, but I submit to you that most people don't care about this issue; one way or the other, because people know that this stuff happens. And if you are going to mention the brutalities that occur, then why don't you also state that until recent times a gay White man has always been able to advance further in his career and life than minorities and women.

It's not me making these things up, it's reality. Tell me, was J Edgar Hoover allowed to live his homosexuality openly? People knew or at least suspected he was gay and had a romantic relationship with one of his staff members but was he allowed to live openly about that? Nope. How many gay men had to get married and live a lie just to live on what society accepted as "normal" (straight marriage). Also for some strange reason lesbians get more acceptance than gay men.

If people didn't care about this issue, why are we still talking about this topic in 2013? Because it's still an issue whether we like it or not.

It was a known fact about Jay Edgar Hoover. It was also a known fact about Rock Hudson, Cary Grant, Randolph Scott, Joan Crawford, Luther Vandross, Teddy Pendergrass, Marilyn Monroe etc., etc. People knew it and they didn't care.

Secondly the whole issue of a civil union is something completely different. If society chooses to recognize that then it will be done. The whole issue to me is one of allowing a life partner the same right as the law recognizes for a husband (man) and a wife (woman). Most things can be passed through a will or an insurance policy anyway, but I can understand the issues related to social security benefits, health insurance benefits, etc.

Once again, did any of them were vocal about that? Did Joan Crawford ever said, "hey people I'm dating this wonderful woman" or did Rock Hudson ever introduced any of his boyfriends to the media? Nope.

Even in that liberal bastion called Hollywood, coming out of the closet is still risky and might end your career. Everybody knows about John Travolta. Why is he still married to a woman? What about Tom Cruise? Why did it take so long for Ricky Martin to come out of the closet? Do you think his career will be the same? Of course not. Why? Because it's still a big issue for most folks. We can pretend to live in a perfect world where these things don't matter anymore but the truth is we're far from it. It will take another generation where these things don't matter anymore.

It certainly has not hurt Elton John, George Michael, Ellen Degeneris or Rosie O'Donnell. Hell Teddy Pendergrass was still popular even after he became paralyzed in a car crash with a tranny. Teddy used to give women only concerts, but apparently he liked guys. It didn't matter people still purchased his albums after his accident. Just more proof that it doesn't matter. No one cares.