(01-25-2013 01:21 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 12:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 12:06 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:56 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:51 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  Why don't you like Creighton? They deserve to be in more than any team except for Xavier and Butler (and Gonzaga).

Lack of tournament success. I didn't want anybody who casual (one or two games a week) fans hear and say "who?" Those casuals are important to us.

But you're right. I must correct my inner Russell Brand--don't think of it as playing the Billikens twice a year, think of it as NOT going to play Providence once in a while.

Im from the Midwest, KU basketball country to be exact ,so we pay attention and have known about Creighton for a long long time now. They are not a "who"? It's not as though they get actual coverage around KC or St. Louis or Chicago (KU, MU, KSU suck up all of it) - but everyone knows and respects who they are.

Ok, yeah, a fan in Kansas will know Creighton the way a New York fan will know Iona. Not comparing accomplishments, comparing profiles. I'd say both are known in their area as "pretty decent"--Iona has 8 regular season MAAC titles in 30 years. Of course MVC >>> MAAC. The point is, you know either one if you're a fan in the area, otherwise probably not.

I'd hope we are more well known than Iona but I'm in a Creighton bubble so my opinion would be biased.

I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Creighton is not well known in Chicago, if they make a miraculous "Cinderella" run to the Final Four then people will know who they are. The casual fan loves these underdog/small schools stories, especially when they beat the Blue Bloods of hoops.

VCU is somewhat known in D.C. even more so after they made their Final Four Run.

Everyone knows Butler now. They might not know where their school is located but they know who they are.

(01-25-2013 02:22 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Creighton is not well known in Chicago, if they make a miraculous "Cinderella" run to the Final Four then people will know who they are. The casual fan loves these underdog/small schools stories, especially when they beat the Blue Bloods of hoops.

Well, Iona basketball isn't exactly "well known" in New York, either. But if you're following college basketball, the local coverage will mention Iona from time to time when they're in position to win the MAAC, which happens 2-3-4 years out of a decade.

(01-25-2013 12:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Because we have a huge boner for 1985. Which I think makes your point.

Can't top that response. Outstanding.

(01-25-2013 02:22 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Creighton is not well known in Chicago, if they make a miraculous "Cinderella" run to the Final Four then people will know who they are. The casual fan loves these underdog/small schools stories, especially when they beat the Blue Bloods of hoops.

VCU is somewhat known in D.C. even more so after they made their Final Four Run.

Everyone knows Butler now. They might not know where their school is located but they know who they are.

VCU wasn't "known" in DC until their Final 4.

(01-25-2013 02:59 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 02:22 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Creighton is not well known in Chicago, if they make a miraculous "Cinderella" run to the Final Four then people will know who they are. The casual fan loves these underdog/small schools stories, especially when they beat the Blue Bloods of hoops.

VCU is somewhat known in D.C. even more so after they made their Final Four Run.

Everyone knows Butler now. They might not know where their school is located but they know who they are.

VCU wasn't "known" in DC until their Final 4.

VCU actually was known 4 years prior when they beat Duke at the Verizon Center.

(01-25-2013 03:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 02:59 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 02:22 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Creighton is not well known in Chicago, if they make a miraculous "Cinderella" run to the Final Four then people will know who they are. The casual fan loves these underdog/small schools stories, especially when they beat the Blue Bloods of hoops.

VCU is somewhat known in D.C. even more so after they made their Final Four Run.

Everyone knows Butler now. They might not know where their school is located but they know who they are.

VCU wasn't "known" in DC until their Final 4.

VCU actually was known 4 years prior when they beat Duke at the Verizon Center.

No they didn't. VCU beat Duke in Buffalo.

You're prolly confusing them with the prior season, when Mason beat UConn in the Elite 8 at Verizon and Calhoun cried like a little ***** about us having a homecourt advantage.

(01-25-2013 03:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 02:59 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 02:22 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Creighton is not well known in Chicago, if they make a miraculous "Cinderella" run to the Final Four then people will know who they are. The casual fan loves these underdog/small schools stories, especially when they beat the Blue Bloods of hoops.

VCU is somewhat known in D.C. even more so after they made their Final Four Run.

Everyone knows Butler now. They might not know where their school is located but they know who they are.

VCU wasn't "known" in DC until their Final 4.

VCU actually was known 4 years prior when they beat Duke at the Verizon Center.

So now all one team needs to do to get "known" is to beat a high ranked team at any time? Come on, getting on ESPN highlights for one night does not = being "known"

VCU has no presence in DC.

man, I've never seen someone as butthurt about another school as you Marquette folks are to VCU. You don't want St Louis, Creigton, Dayton(well you do, but you don't want to have to play them all the time)- but then you don't want VCU either... Seems like want to have their cake but eat it too....

The DC area keeps on going further and further south.... It really does.

Also, MASN and CSN are regional channels, not really DC channels at all. VCU being in there would make an impact.

(01-25-2013 04:52 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  VCU has no presence in DC.

This

(01-25-2013 05:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  man, I've never seen someone as butthurt about another school as you Marquette folks are to VCU. You don't want St Louis, Creigton, Dayton(well you do, but you don't want to have to play them all the time)- but then you don't want VCU either... Seems like want to have their cake but eat it too....

The DC area keeps on going further and further south.... It really does.

Also, MASN and CSN are regional channels, not really DC channels at all. VCU being in there would make an impact.

Really? Pulling the butthurt card? I thought this was the C7 board, and that earlier you, johnbragg and I were having a healthy debate about scheduling philosophy from the east/midwest points of view. I didn't realize the BE/CR board rules regarding name calling were in effect. Come on.

And at least state my position properly, since you use the plural "folks" instead of just the poster you replied to. 1) I have never discussed VCU. 2) I am happy to see MU play any of the teams selected to be in the conference . . . as long as MU only plays them as often as GU, VU and SJU play them.

You are reading the argument incorrectly by attacking teams used as examples. I am only arguing against johnbraggs scheduling requirement that the midwest teams only get to play home-home with 2 eastern teams and 5 midwest teams. I prefer MU to have more eastern opportunities than that, and a scheduling philosophy that allows for such eastern opportunities.

I think it's important to keep track of which MU posters want which things.

Aughnanure wants no part of VCU.

MUAvalanche wants no hint of a geographic scheduling arrangement.

And by the way, VCU has no presence in DC or northern Virginia. I see as many ECU bumper stickers as VCU.

(01-25-2013 11:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:14 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

Then keep it at 10. If you want Creighton/SLU/Dayton, then be willing to play them twice as often as you require MU to. Don't say you want Creighton and follow up with a "but you play them twice, not us" attitude. You should only add teams that you are willing to see twice on your own schedule.

I understand what you're saying--I didn't want Creighton or Saint Louis, but I think TV is going to strongly favor 12 over 10.

Russell Brand voice says: Don't think of it as playing Creighton twice a year every year--think of it as not having to play Seton HAll or PRovidence twice.

"or st johns" you left out part of russell brands quote

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:21 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 12:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 12:06 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:56 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Lack of tournament success. I didn't want anybody who casual (one or two games a week) fans hear and say "who?" Those casuals are important to us.

But you're right. I must correct my inner Russell Brand--don't think of it as playing the Billikens twice a year, think of it as NOT going to play Providence once in a while.

Im from the Midwest, KU basketball country to be exact ,so we pay attention and have known about Creighton for a long long time now. They are not a "who"? It's not as though they get actual coverage around KC or St. Louis or Chicago (KU, MU, KSU suck up all of it) - but everyone knows and respects who they are.

Ok, yeah, a fan in Kansas will know Creighton the way a New York fan will know Iona. Not comparing accomplishments, comparing profiles. I'd say both are known in their area as "pretty decent"--Iona has 8 regular season MAAC titles in 30 years. Of course MVC >>> MAAC. The point is, you know either one if you're a fan in the area, otherwise probably not.

I'd hope we are more well known than Iona but I'm in a Creighton bubble so my opinion would be biased.

I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Fordham might be a better choice to compare. imo creighton and fordham are known nationally but are obviously better known in their region. also both are respected academically. iona isnt up to their level yet

(01-25-2013 08:48 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:14 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

Then keep it at 10. If you want Creighton/SLU/Dayton, then be willing to play them twice as often as you require MU to. Don't say you want Creighton and follow up with a "but you play them twice, not us" attitude. You should only add teams that you are willing to see twice on your own schedule.

I understand what you're saying--I didn't want Creighton or Saint Louis, but I think TV is going to strongly favor 12 over 10.

Russell Brand voice says: Don't think of it as playing Creighton twice a year every year--think of it as not having to play Seton HAll or PRovidence twice.

"or st johns" you left out part of russell brands quote

No matter how much we suck, playing us means playing at the Garden, so no one's going to complain. The Dunk doesn't have the same cachet.

(01-24-2013 12:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 12:47 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  If they went to divisions and vcu wasn't included, the c 7 could put Xavier or Dayton in the east. I haven't' looked at a map but what is the difference in mileage between cincy and Providence and cincy and Omaha?

Here's the big thing: an overwhelming number of C7 fans seem to split the new league into divisions in their heads, yet conferences with 12 schools or more have continuously chosen to not use divisions for basketball or really any sport outside of football. Divisions only matter for football because it's a requirement under NCAA rules in order to hold a conference championship game. Even the 16-team Big East, which is the size of a league that you would think would demand divisions, didn't split the league up.

Instead, the most that larger conferences do for basketball is assign a handful of protected annual rivals that schools will play twice per year and then rotate through everyone else. I'm fairly certain that will be the case for the C7, as well. Therefore, it doesn't matter whether there's "balance" between the east and west - this league almost certainly won't have divisions, so it's irrelevant.

Divisions maybe aren't relevant but reasonable travel partners are very relevant as they reduce expenses associated with minor sports.

(01-25-2013 02:59 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 02:22 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Creighton is not well known in Chicago, if they make a miraculous "Cinderella" run to the Final Four then people will know who they are. The casual fan loves these underdog/small schools stories, especially when they beat the Blue Bloods of hoops.

VCU is somewhat known in D.C. even more so after they made their Final Four Run.

Everyone knows Butler now. They might not know where their school is located but they know who they are.

VCU wasn't "known" in DC until their Final 4.

Okay to prove you wrong I asked my wife to name the top 4 mid major teams. She picked Butler, VCU, Gonzaga and Creighton. Your talking a women in Sacramento.

(01-25-2013 08:58 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:21 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 12:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 12:06 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Im from the Midwest, KU basketball country to be exact ,so we pay attention and have known about Creighton for a long long time now. They are not a "who"? It's not as though they get actual coverage around KC or St. Louis or Chicago (KU, MU, KSU suck up all of it) - but everyone knows and respects who they are.

Ok, yeah, a fan in Kansas will know Creighton the way a New York fan will know Iona. Not comparing accomplishments, comparing profiles. I'd say both are known in their area as "pretty decent"--Iona has 8 regular season MAAC titles in 30 years. Of course MVC >>> MAAC. The point is, you know either one if you're a fan in the area, otherwise probably not.

I'd hope we are more well known than Iona but I'm in a Creighton bubble so my opinion would be biased.

I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Fordham might be a better choice to compare. imo creighton and fordham are known nationally but are obviously better known in their region. also both are respected academically. iona isnt up to their level yet

But Fordham isn't known for athletics. At all.

(01-26-2013 12:08 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:58 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:21 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 12:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Ok, yeah, a fan in Kansas will know Creighton the way a New York fan will know Iona. Not comparing accomplishments, comparing profiles. I'd say both are known in their area as "pretty decent"--Iona has 8 regular season MAAC titles in 30 years. Of course MVC >>> MAAC. The point is, you know either one if you're a fan in the area, otherwise probably not.

I'd hope we are more well known than Iona but I'm in a Creighton bubble so my opinion would be biased.

I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Fordham might be a better choice to compare. imo creighton and fordham are known nationally but are obviously better known in their region. also both are respected academically. iona isnt up to their level yet

But Fordham isn't known for athletics. At all.

Frankie Frisch, Vince Lombardi and Digger Phelps...!

(01-26-2013 12:46 AM)billyjack Wrote:  

(01-26-2013 12:08 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:58 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 01:21 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  I'd hope we are more well known than Iona but I'm in a Creighton bubble so my opinion would be biased.

I was just saying that, much like Iona would be semi-recognizable in New York but nowhere outside the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area. Creighton would be well known in Chicago, but maybe not in Detroit. Current run of regular season success aside.

Creighton is better known than Iona, the MVC is a higher-profile league than the MAAC. I'm just trying to make an analogy to another team that's a much more familiar name in their region than elsewhere.

Fordham might be a better choice to compare. imo creighton and fordham are known nationally but are obviously better known in their region. also both are respected academically. iona isnt up to their level yet

But Fordham isn't known for athletics. At all.

Frankie Frisch, Vince Lombardi and Digger Phelps...!

Only sports nuts know Lombardi went to Fordham. FYI Lombardi is buried in my hometown.